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Author Topic: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two  (Read 81661 times)

Roy J. Tellason

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #330 on: July 04, 2007, 09:10:12 pm »

I may never "prove" a damned thing, but I've damned sure posed some very fine questions for the unawakened sheeple who chance to stumble across these boards. Claire is not really interested in my work in this topic, and Debra is sure that I'm crazy - (and I don't blame them for one minute! - but inside my eccentric self I'm ahead of most people on this planet right now in my understanding of what has happened to America and to your and my lives. There are some here who also "know". If Aaron Russo saw fit to include the role of the Federal Reserve in his film "America: Freedom To Fascism", maybe Old Elias ain't all that far off base after all, ye reckon? :) Anyway, my work on the conspiracy of the fake War on Terror is my lasting gift to Debra and to Claire, and I'm pretty sure that one day they'll come to appreciate the fact that their message boards were among the first in America to expose that wickedness. With that I'll feel that I've in part repaid them for the many blessings they have given to my life.

Dude,  as far as I'm concerned you *are* crazy,  but it's a very interesting kind of crazy,  and one could do a lot worse... :-)

Salute!
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Junker

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #331 on: July 05, 2007, 10:25:08 pm »

Elias Alias

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Junker, that is probably the nicest gift you've ever given me. What an absolutely smashing find, Dear Chap! Wow.

Truly an amazing resource. I can see already that my weekend will include some hours of downloading those books, and I'm amazed that this collection is online for free reading. Dang! Better than finding gold! I've been wanting that book by Lindberg for some time now, and here it is for free. Most happy discovery. Thanks, Bro!

Salute!
Elias
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


How nice !  I guess the mailman lost the e-mail you sent me for scanning/html, posting all those books on my site. (Or you imagined that all that e-text just sprouted up there like some cyber fungus?)
They are not rare, only rarely read.  Have you troubled yourself going into the library while wishing to read Lindberg's no-so-special book ?

Take Mr. LaFollette's speeches for a taste test
http://www.yama guchy.netfirms.com/uregina/speeches.html

Perhaps Yamaguchy in person? If so, good work.
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Elias Alias

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #332 on: August 05, 2007, 01:32:10 am »

In October of 2004 I began my sojourn into the world of "conspiracy theory", here at this board. The link for my first Conspiracy Theory thread here at TCF is:
http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=2347.0

Lately, here in early August of 2007, almost three years after I initiated my discussion of conspiracy theories at TCF, I have noticed a number of post-makers who are repeating a general statement which goes somewhat like this: "What does it matter who attacked this nation on 9/11, since the government is using those attacks to deprive Americans of more of their liberties. It doesn't matter who did the attacks, the results are the same as they would be if the government planned and carried out the attacks or if a band of criminals planned and carried out the attacks or if the al Qaeda and/or groups of radical fundamentalist Jihadists planned and carried out the attacks. The result is still that we are faced with losing more and more of our liberties, and that is the most important thing we must consider now. The attacks are over. Let's move forward and do what we can do to prevent the further loss of our liberties."

Here is one example:

"It doesn't matter to me anymore if the gov't knew the attacks on 9/11 were coming and did nothing, or if they were active participants. The end result is the same, they used the situations to their advantage and further trampled our freedoms."

[ http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=14900.45  link good as of August 04, 2007 ]

Here we have a person who is willing to let the people who attacked this nation on 9/11 not only go undiscovered, but is willing to let those who attacked us on 9/11 also go unpunished. She says it just doesn't matter. I think it does matter. In fact, I think identifying the guilty mass-murderers and bringing them to justice is likely the singularly most important thing we as Americans can do at this point in our history.

It is important to show good reason why we must discover the names of the criminals behind the attacks of 9/11. We also must discover the agencies involved, the businesses involved,  banks that were involved or used, news-media people who were involved, Intelligence agencies which were involved or used, military agencies used and personnel who were involved, foreign agencies and foreign government people involved, foreign assets used, domestic and foreign criminal assets used,  and etc.

We also must discover the motive(s). We must also expose the details of the plan itself, and see how it came into being. And we must discover the purpose of the attacks of 9/11. We need to learn why these attacks were planned, who would benefit from the attacks, what goals could be accomplished if the attacks were carried out successfully.

All such things, and more, are very important for us to learn, to discover, to understand, and finally to realize fully in our conscious minds, both as individuals and as a society in the whole.

Because there now appears to be in the quote-unquote "liberty movement"  a number of  good folks who would ask why I would make that statement, I would like to bring forward here now several lesser reasons why I would say that, and three extreme primary reasons why I say forcefully that it is very important for us to solve the crime by naming the criminals (or as many as we can) and exposing how they did it,  and learning why they did it.

In more than forty pages of posts here at TCF I have labored and invested countless hours in an on-going effort to connect the dots, to make sense of peak events of American history, to see if there are any discernable patterns in events which often appear to be unrelated to overall drifts and directions in America's history. I have gone way back in time, and even have looked back as far as Plato's Critias. I have focused briefly on the Court of Queen Elizabeth the First and her courtiers such as Lord Bacon and Dr. John Dee. I have looked at the pro-British New England Tories of our Revolutionary War era, before and after.  I have looked at the first half of the 19th Century and explored gently into the legacy of Judah Benjamin, August Belmont, James Bullock, John Slidell, and General Albert Pike.  In recent times I have begun studying the latter part of the 19th Century, but am not prepared yet to enter that segment into this discussion.  I have looked at Sir Cecil Rhodes and his Round Table Groups, from which came the RIIA and the CFR and the "policy" used by Woodrow Wilson and Wall Street. I am preparing presently to do much more deeply into the shrouded legacy of FDR. I have looked at the international financial drive to consolidate financial power into a world government power in the hands and control of a very few families of elite financiers.  I have looked into false-flag events such as the Maine, the Lusitania,  Pearl Harbor, and the Gulf of Tonkin. I have noted anomalies surrounding the four centerpiece "terrorist events" on U.S. soil. But I am not a scholar, and I am not an authority on anything other than gold sculpture and certain spiritual matters, neither of which I have dwelt upon here at TCF. I am just one little guy, one father of grown kids, one ex-businessman, one "un-employed poet", one more aging war veteran who, as Steve Mason so accurately put it in one of his poems, found out "too late whom I really served". I am one little guy who cares. Aside from that, I have nothing about which to brag, and I am content with declaring honestly that I am not an "authority" on much of anything. I am here, and I am writing as best as I can, because I care about a lost country called America. I do not have the answers, but I have an interest in digging up the answers which lie buried in the suppressed accountings of history which the Internet and published books and filmed documentaries now afford any little guy like myself.

 In part, my mistake has been to presume that people who frequent TCF's boards are interested in discovering the truth behind the encroachment of the Police State. I now realize that some here are interested in exactly the opposite, and others are interested in personal agendas and self-aggrandizement and preferred delusions of freedom, and even a few are interested in making sure that no serious discussion of history and its imparted implications shall occur here without a maze of distraction and mis-direction. Be all that as it may, I am prepared mentally to go forward with my work here, ever learning, ever honing my skills in diverting the barbs cast and the distractions launched, and ever improving my tolerance to and detachment from attacks sourcing from simple egoism to governmental psy-ops intrusion. I do understand that I must overcome such nefarious activities by screen-names and focus on sharing what I continue to discover in my personal style of study. I get embarrassed at times when I come to my senses after a joust with idiocy and see that I allowed myself to be drawn into pettiness.  I must return from that sort of consciousness to the clarity in which I try to contribute something of value to the liberty movement. I am trying to teach myself to be patient with those who disagree. So let us now look yet once again into more important matters.

One thing we can agree on: After the fall of the Soviet Union, a rash of "terrorist" events of record-breaking scope began to occur. In the USA we had, within two years of the fall of the USSR, the debacle at Ruby Ridge, the travesty at Waco, and the first bombing of the WTC in New York. Within four years of the fall of the USSR, we had the Oklahoma City bombing. Accompanying that influx of major "terrorist events" is the fact that in 1991, as the USSR was on its way down, the Bilderberg group invited George Herbert Walker Bush's old cocaine-dealing buddy from Arkansas to attend the 1991 Bilderberg meeting, where William Jefferson Clinton was groomed finally for the Democratic Party's Presidential candidacy. Clinton was barely in office when Ruby Ridge broke. That was followed quickly by the massacre of that church full of women and children in Waco, Texas and the FBI's fiasco at the 1993 bombing of the WTC. And by Spring of 1995 we took the full frontal shock of the bombing at Oklahoma City.

By 1996 the major anti-terrorism bill which Clinton could not get through Congress prior to the Oklahoma City bombing was rushed through Congress and signed into law. We know it as the:
Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996

(continued next post)

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Elias Alias

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #333 on: August 05, 2007, 01:50:33 am »

(continued from previous post)

The very agencies which were using agents-provocateur and criminal informants and madmen who were under FBI and/or CIA surveillance were granted new Police State powers and fatter budgets. All of what I've just said is of course a matter of known history and is easily resourced; it's public knowledge as well. Many here already know how to fill in the blanks as I'm skimming lightly across the width and breadth of our history during the first half of the 1990s. But most people in the public domain do not connect such dots, because they have not been taught how to do that. Instead, the fruits of Feducation seem to have mesmerized their focused attention with distractions and meaningless worries, myriad and varied in scope. Hence the purpose before us now.

I mention this because whoever attacked America on 9/11/2001 has never been caught.

Think about that. If it truly was Osama bin Laden and his infamous "Al Qaeda", why have we not captured him and brought him and his gang of terrorists to justice?  The criminals who conspired to deliver the attacks of 9/11 are guilty of murdering almost three thousand innocent victims in a major act of terrorism.  If Osama bin Laden is indeed responsible for that, should we not have already captured him and brought him to justice? As long as he is not "caught", what may we say of him? One thing we may say about that is that if he remains free (and alive today) he may at any time choose to strike us again in as hideous a manner as he is accused of doing on 9/11. Maybe worse. 

The government says Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda did it. But the government not only has failed for nearly six years to capture Osama bin Laden, the government has failed to show the world any proof that Osama bin Laden and/or al Qaeda did the attacks without assistance from elements within the U.S. Federal government. The Taliban, recall, agreed to turn bin Laden over to the U.S. if the U.S. would kindly show the evidence which indicated bin Laden's guilt for the crimes of 9/11. The U.S. government either would not or could not show any evidence - but had the U.S. government done so, bin Laden would have been in U.S. custody by early October, 2001.  Why was this not done?  No one will say.

Complying with a sovereign nation's governmental request for grounds upon which it should turn over someone in its country to the U.S. for alleged criminal acts would be a simple thing to do if the U.S. government had any proof that bin Laden was involved in 9/11. But the U.S. government, while loudly and widely asserting that bin Laden was involved, somehow found reason to not share the actual proof of bin Laden's guilt with the government which promised to deliver him to the U.S. authorities upon show of proper proof. Instead of that simple solution, the U.S. launched a military invasion of Afghanistan, costing countless lives and sustaining endless destruction. That could have been avoided had the U.S. simply shown the proof to back up its claims of bin Laden's complicity in the crimes of 9/11.

Making matters surrounding this observation even worse, the U.S. government, for reasons no one on earth can possibly explain, has also managed to allow bin Laden to escape from capture at least three times since 9/11/2001.

Exposing that is none other than the CIA's chief of operations for Operation Jawbreaker, which is the code name for the U.S. Intelligence community's invasion of Afghanistan in October of 2001. His name is Gary Berntsen. I found out about Gary Berntsen by viewing a wonderful film entitled "911 Press For Truth", on which Berntsen's attorney explains why Berntsen chose to retire two years early from his career in CIA to publish his book. 

This courageous CIA commander, who was first on the ground in Afghanistan to capture bin Laden, came face to face with some power higher than his commissioned power as leader of the invasion of Afghanistan in the quest to capture Osama bin Laden. He became keenly frustrated when General Tommy Franks, commander of CENTCOM, refused for days on end to furnish Berntsen with a battalion of U.S. troops to seal the one remaining escape-route available to bin Laden after Berntsen's men had surrounded bin Laden on three sides at Tora Bora.  General Franks and CENTCOM made the decision to deny Berntsen's request for a battalion of troops to be placed on the east side of Tora Bora, even though twelve hundred U.S. Marines were within sixty miles of Tora Bora at the time, and those Marines were not involved in any ground maneuvers. This is quite amazing behavior by a government which had vowed to capture Osama bin Laden and which had even been willing to invade a sovereign nation-state without a Constitutionally-required declaration of war  to do so.

That, in fact, is one of two major situations which plausibly grant little people like me and any other American citizen the right to ask questions about this whole government story about 9/11.

The other related situation is also exposed in Gary Berntsen's amazing book, Jawbreaker.  That situation is the accounting of the massive airlift of al Qaeda and Taliban soldiers from Konduz, Afghanistan, to safety in Pakistan.

Yes, you read that right.  As Seymore Hersch (sp?) put it, at a time in which every square inch of airspace over Afghanistan was under total U.S. control, a series of night-time flights from Konduz to Pakistan occurred. Hersch stated that this decision had to go to the level of the White House itself. Various statesmen are on film (911 Press For Truth) saying that this had to be a top-level decision going to the level of the highest U.S. authority, and I agree.  Repeatedly the troops would muster at the tarmac and board airplanes to be flown to safety while the U.S. military had Konduz surrounded. They were trapped, and suddenly a series of flights arrived, landed, on-loaded thousands of Taliban and al Qaeda troops, and took off for Pakistan. I said "thousands", and that is now verified. Thousands of them were airlifted out of the grasp of the surrounding U.S. military and delivered to safety in Pakistan. That could not happen unless someone at the top of the U.S. chain of command ordered it to happen.

Well, I had heard about this amazing airlift of thousands of enemy soldiers years ago by viewing an Alex Jones film. (911: The Road To Tyranny - available at infowars dot com) Since Alex is an exuberant mentality, I took that with a grain of salt, until it came out in Berntsen's book.  Remember now, Berntsen was the CIA's commander of ground actions in the invasion of Afghanistan right after 9/11. He says in his book that this happened. So that made two instances in which I heard about this. The third instance happened this way.

While listening to KMMS on my radio one afternoon (March 08, 2007) here in Bozeman, the talk-show host, one Henry Kriegel, had as his special guest the Fox News Pentagon correspondent.  That would be Maj. Gen. Paul Valleley. When I heard this Pentagon General on the show, I called into the show with two questions for him to answer. I did not think he would actually answer the questions honestly, but I wanted to get him on record as evading the questions. I was surprised when he candidly admitted the correct answers to my questions.

I asked him if it was true that bin Laden was allowed to escape from Tora Bora. He said yes, that was true.

I asked him if it was true that the U.S. military allowed thousands of Taliban and al Qaeda soldiers/fighters to be airlifted out of the surrounded city of Konduz. He said yes, that was true.

He said this over the air on KMMS 1450 AM on Henry Kriegel's "Open Range" talk-radio show on March 08, 2007. He is not a "conspiracy theorist" - he is a Major General at the Pentagon and the Pentagon consultant to Fox News.  His answers to my questions are now on public record.

So back to the point here. Should we not expect our government to capture the guilty parties who conspired to commit the acts of terror on 9/11/2001? If George Walker Bush swore publicly to capture Osama bin Laden while launching his infamous "War on Terror", should he not do everything in his power as Commander in Chief of the U.S. military and the CEO of the Executive Branch of the U.S. Federal government to catch the leader of al Qaeda, whom President Bush has declared to be responsible for the attacks of 9/11?

If so, why on earth has the U.S. not captured or killed Osama bin Laden? And why on earth would General Ralph Eberhard state, on film (911 Press For Truth)  that "...the goal has never been to capture bin Laden"?

Of course, something is not right here. As a former Marine and Vietnam veteran, I am keenly aware of what can happen when corruption creeps into the wicked little minds of politicians and the arms-industry interests' go-to boys in uniform at the Pentagon.  Ten years of merciless ground war in Vietnam proved afterwards to be for nothing other than corporate interests.  Korea has proved to be for nothing other than corporate interests for half a century.  Gulf War I proved to be for nothing other than corporate interests. And the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq have now proved to be for nothing other than corporate interests. I am not the first ex-Marine to say this. General Smedley Butler also stated it in his book, "War Is A Racket".

 Because of such observations, afforded only after the dust of present endeavors settles to clear the air long afterward, we are perfectly entitled, as citizens, to ask such questions. The refusal of our government to answer our questions serves only to feed the ever-growing quest of citizens who are forced to think about "conspiracy theories".

What in the hell is going on here? Who does the government think it is fooling with this sort of madness? Where is "justice"? What is the government covering up, and for whom? Why does this government refuse to capture or kill Osama bin Laden? Why do some people at TCF claim that it doesn't matter that we find out who is responsible for the attacks of 9/11?

Everything that has happened in the U.S. Federal government since 9/11/2001 is based on the government's story about what happened on 9/11/2001.  And the official government's story about all that is simply not supportable with facts.

That is part of what this thread is all about. And that is why I have chosen the route of history as being necessary to gaining the most beneficial perspective from which to begin to understand what happened to us on 9/11. History is known to repeat itself so long as people do not learn from history. This thread, and the other two Conspiracy Theory threads here at TCF, is devoted to establishing that perspective.  It does matter who attacked this nation on 9/11/2001. The widows of 9/11 appreciate our efforts to investigate that crime which took their husbands on that day.

http://www.911pressfortruth.com/

Jawbreaker: The Attack On Bin Laden And Al-Qaeda
by Gary Berntsen and Ralph Pezzullo; copyright 2005 by Gary Berntsen and Ralph Pezzullo; Three Rivers Press, imprint of the Crown Publishing Group, division of Random House, Inc., New York, www.crownpublishing.com ; ISBN-13: 978-307-35106-7 and ISBN-10 0-307-35106-8. EA note: Gary Berntsen was the CIA officer in charge during the assault on Afghanistan in October, 2001, and the senior CIA official overseeing the military operations from which Osama bin Laden was allowed - by General Tommy Franks and CENTCOM -  to escape, first from Kabul, then from Jalalabad, and finally from Tora Bora, Afghanistan. Many parts of this book were deleted by the CIA prior to publication.

War Is A Racket
by Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC; copyright 1935, 2003 by the Butler Family; publisher: Feral House, P.O. Box 39910, Los Angeles, CA, 90039; www.FeralHouse.com and info@feralhouse.com ; ISBN: 0-922915-86-5.

More very shortly.
Salute!
Elias
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GreenArrow

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #334 on: August 05, 2007, 06:59:49 am »

Semper Fi Elias! Well written! Thanks for the info on Smedley Butler's book-I'll keep an eye out for that one!..............GA
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cowardly lion

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #335 on: August 05, 2007, 07:27:13 am »

Been following this on a couple of threads, now, Elias.  Keep up the good work, and illegitimi non carborundum.

cl
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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #336 on: August 05, 2007, 11:14:32 am »


" In part, my mistake has been to presume that people who frequent TCF's boards are interested in discovering the truth behind the encroachment of the Police State."  (--Elias Alias)

It's not a mistake, Elias!  I have read much of the material you have talked about, and bought several dvds to share,  which actually lead to me finding this site in the first place last fall, but my "awakening" came only a year ago, and has involved way too much time at the computer.  I appreciate the research you have done to bring all this info together in one place.  Reminds me of Rupert's book, Crossing the Rubicon. 

Smedley's book can be read online here:   http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
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Wyomiles

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #337 on: August 05, 2007, 01:01:50 pm »

Elias, keep up the good work, when does your book come out ?   
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GreenArrow

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #338 on: August 05, 2007, 05:01:24 pm »


" In part, my mistake has been to presume that people who frequent TCF's boards are interested in discovering the truth behind the encroachment of the Police State." (--Elias Alias)

It's not a mistake, Elias! I have read much of the material you have talked about, and bought several dvds to share, which actually lead to me finding this site in the first place last fall, but my "awakening" came only a year ago, and has involved way too much time at the computer. I appreciate the research you have done to bring all this info together in one place. Reminds me of Rupert's book, Crossing the Rubicon.

Smedley's book can be read online here: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Thanks for the link ..............................Good reading..........GA
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Shrike

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #339 on: August 05, 2007, 10:30:20 pm »

Elias, you are tireless, dude. Many thanks for your continued efforts. Interesting info, man.

Cheers,

Shrike
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Elias Alias

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #340 on: August 05, 2007, 11:58:50 pm »

I'm warmed and encouraged that several of you have found nice things to say about my struggles with conspiracy theories here at TCF.  I just came in here to post up another addition to this thread and have read your posts to me. I'll post this one to clear my mouse and then respond to your kind posts. Thanks!
~
Relative to my previous two-part post above, in which I was musing over the remarkable mindset held by some people who consider themselves to be in the liberty movement (loosely-applied generalization - by "liberty movement" I mean to imply nothing more than such folks who would register and participate at TCF under the wing of the writings of Claire Wolfe) I have noticed this evening another example of that consciousness which would deny any need to investigate the crimes of 9/11. This current rendering of that view is on a thread here:

http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=14900.75

Here is the example of that view in a rather acute version:

~
To prove a point.
Why?
'Cause (and this is what most in the "9/11 Truth Movement" fail to understand) IT DOESN'T MATTER.
It doesn't matter what happened.  What matters is what happened afterward.  How it was used as an excuse to take away everybody's civil liberties.  That's what matters, not the act, but the effects of the act.
Ever notice how nobody tries to shut these 9/11 Truthists up anymore?  How they just let them rattle on and make their little movies, and hold their little conferences, and write their little books ad nauseum?  It's because everybody else has realized the futility of concentrating on something that doesn't matter and has moved on to more important fights.  And the Federal Government let's them rattle on not because of the First amendment, but because they've become useful distractions, like beer and football and pizza and cheerleaders. 
They're part of the circus in the "bread and circuses". 

end quoted passages from above linked post, which is second down from top of page at that url
~

That writer stressed his point with bold emphasis and all caps. He apparently thinks it is important that some readers get the message that "it doesn't matter". I disagree. I think it does matter.

Let's look at that philosophical stance. Let's establish an example, for the sake of clarity on this issue, because many of us do think it matters.
~
Hypothetical Scenario:  A criminal breaks into a home and finds a teen-age daughter at home alone. He proceeds to brandish a gun, binds the girl's hands and feet, and rapes her painfully, repeatedly. Once he is totally spent, he kills the teen-ager and escapes the home before the parents return. When they come in, they find their abused daughter's body which shows all the tell-tale signs of what had happened to her. They are out of their minds with grief and dismay and shock. They call the cops, who send the proper investigative and enforcement officers and the hunt for the criminal begins at the same time the investigation of the teen-age girl's rape/murder commences.

But the parents suddenly blurt out to the detectives - "Stop! There is no need to find the guilty man! It doesn't matter! What matters is that our daughter can never be returned to life in this world, to life in our family. Catching the guilty man cannot possibly help us in any way - so it doesn't matter. Call off your manhunt. Tell your detectives to cease with their little finger-print dusting, tell your cops to quit bagging up shards of evidence, tell the medical examiner that it is not necessary to explore the gory details of her assault, tell your department that it doesn't matter. She's dead. Our daughter is dead."
end hypothetical scenario.
~

Okay. So sane people everywhere can immediately see several major problems with the hypothetical scenario. As coincidence would have it, just last week I visited with a man who has retired after thirty years with the Los Angeles Police Department. He and I discussed 9/11, but only lightly. We visited mostly about his career as a police officer. He had been a detective, among other career steps up the ladder in LAPD.  He is a very nice gentleman who joined the police force to help people. (Yes, some good men and women do that, even today, and I appreciate them, especially those who know about the inherent evils of government in general.) Anyway, this gentleman was curious about why I would fill my home with clusters of books on history and governmental abuses and biographies of "leaders" in America's past. He remarked about my extensive collection of "conspiracy theory" documentary videos. It pleased me to be able to point to various documentary films here to reinforce or authenticate various comments I shared with him about 9/11, including the slow-motion footages of the twin towers' multiple explosions which are now on film for anyone to see. I showed him the CBS film of WTC-7 collapsing, which is in my opinion the best angle employed for the filming of that event, and the gentleman was staggered by watching that event. He had not seen it before, except for the original shots shown on television that afternoon (9/11).  I assured him that I was not asking him to make a decision about what his eyes had just shown him, not at that time, and I thanked him for being willing to view the footage. But while I visited with the gentleman we talked quite a bit about crime, and the role of law enforcement, and the place for law enforcement in society.

You see, this guy, after thirty years in LAPD, knows damned well what is wrong with that hypothetical scenario I jotted down above. There is one reason why it does matter to catch the criminal, the rapist, the murderer. That reason is simple, and it stuns me to see people posting here at TCF saying things which indicate that they have not even considered this most-obvious reason -

You must catch and bring to justice any aggressive criminal such as a rapist or a murderer because until you do catch him and bring him to justice the son of a bitch is likely to repeat the crime again with yet another victim. Criminals tend to repeat crimes until law enforcement stops them. It's just that simple.

The people who planned, orchestrated, financed, choreographed, selected the personnel, compartmentalized the various stages and sub-plot divisions, staged, recruited "red-herrings" or useful dupes or "patsies" for, and executed, the crimes of 9/11/2001 shall surely do it again if we do not catch them and bring them to justice. And to grace-note that observation we must always remember that many spokesmen for the government's conspiracy theory about 9/11 have said that the next terror event is not a matter of "if" but  "when". General Tommy Franks, about whom we spoke just above on this thread as being the man who managed to divert the U.S. military against the request of the CIA's on-the-ground commander so that Osama bin Laden could "get away" at Tora Bora in early December, 2001, General Tommy Franks himself, published an interview in Cigar Officienado magazine (sp?) in which he said publicly that when the next terror event occurs we may have to do away with the Constitution and "go to a military form of government". A "military form of government" is also known as "martial law". Both are names for "police state". All three terms are associated with tyranny, dictators, and government mass abuse of populations. See Claire's and Aaron Zelman's amazing video documentary, "Innocents Betrayed".

While you're thinking on that one, please read henshawe's amazing thread on the coming police state, here:

Martial Law Coming To The U.S.?
http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=14156.0

~

So let's get real. It does matter. Allow me to repeat here one example.

If Melvin Lattimore was involved in the Oklahoma City Federal building bombing in 1995 and was also involved in the 1993 WTC bombing, and if he was in Federal prison between those two events, and was let out of prison so the FBI could use him as an "informant", it damn-well matters. Let's look into this FBI informant/agent-provocateur, Melvin Lattimore, just briefly here to show something which the mainstream media refuses to discuss with the American people. (This is from Patrick B. Briley, author of one report to the Congressional 9/11 Investigation.)
~
John C.Richter prosecuted FBI provocateur and informant Melvin Lattimore in OKC in October and November 2001 shortly after the 9/11 attacks for a firearms charge relating to Lattimore ‘s prior conviction of a felony. Richter’s prosecution was an intentional effort by Richter, Michael Chertoff, the White House and the DOJ and the FBI to put Lattimore out of the public limelight to keep the public from learning the details of Lattimore’s direct roles as an FBI informant and provocateur in the 1993 WTC and OKC bombings and the 9/11 attacks. Richter, the DOJ and the White House knew of but did not prosecute Lattimore for Lattimore’s much more grievous and serious roles and instead prosecuted Lattimore for a relatively minor firearms charge. Lattimore was out of jail in 14 months and has been walking American streets for several years now.
Here is some of what is known about Melvin Lattimore that Richter, the FBI, CIA, DOJ, Chertoff, Ashcroft, GW Bush, Alberto Gonzales. Porter Goss, Negropotne, etc have known for years:
Lattimore is a Black Muslim originally from St Louis, Missouri. He was convicted in the late 1970s for stockpiling weapons and explosives at a St Louis mosque. His Muslim name is Mujahid Abdul-qaddir Menepta. He has been identified as Al Fatah’s North American recruiter associated with the PLO and Hamas in OKC. He was living in OK at the time of the OKC bombing and was associated with OKC and Norman, OK mosques.
Lattimore’s credit card was used to buy the bombing making materials for the 1993 WTC bombing. Richter’s proteges’, US Attorneys Michael Chertoff and Patrick Fitzgerald, knew about, approved, covered up and lied to Congress and the courts about their role with the FBI in paying Emad Salem to recruit 7 men to bomb the WTC in 1993 using materials bought with Lattimore’s credit card.
Four of the men that worked with Lattimore and Salem were Anis and Asad Siddiqy, Mr Yassin (sent back to Iraq by US Attorneys!) and Mohammed Chafti and they were trained in explosives by FBI and CIA provocateur and informant Ali Mohammed who was released a month ago by the DOJ after being convicted in 1998 of the Tanzania and Kenyan bombing and for helping Bin Laden and AlQaeda.
Lattimore was an FBI provocateur and informant who, along with the Siddiqys and Chafti helped and encourage McVeigh in OKC carry out the OKC bombing. Lattimore’s 1993 WTC bombing associates, the Siddiqys and Chafti, were with McVeigh in OKC moments before the OKC bombing. The witness to this, Debbie Burdick, was threatened to not talk to the press or to defense attorneys by FBI agent Odom out of Denver during and after the OKC bombing trials while Odom and FBI agent Floyd Zimms were working for DOJ prosecutors in Denver. FBI and CIA agent Floyd Zimms (wife was an HW Bush Republican delegate) arranged for the release of the Siddiqys and Chafti after they were arrested on the day of the OKC bombing. The FBI’s former OKC bombing Inspector, Danny Defenbaugh, hid the FBI 302 reports of the arrests of the Siddiqy’s and Chafti until the reports were identified in his Dallas FBI office (FBI SAC Dallas) in January 2001.
Lattimore worked closely with Iraqi provocateurs brought back to the US after the first Gulf war by HW Bush and the CIA including Iraqi provocateur, Al Hussain Hussaini. Hussini had been employed by Dr. Samir Khalil, a Hamas and PLO operative whose PLO and Hamas employees and friends closely associated with Lattimore in OKC. Khalil and Hussaini, like Lattimore have never been questioned or prosecuted for their roles in the OKC bombing. A former assistant US attorney in OKC, Ted Richardson, had convened a federal grand jury to investigate Dr Khalil in early 1995 only to have Reno abruptly quash the grand jury shortly after the OKC bombing. Ted Richardson was found dead with a shotgun wound to his chest not far from Khalil’s home in OKC during the McVeigh federal trial.

Lattimore was with McVeigh’s car and two other FBI provocateurs, James Rosencrans and Sean Kenny, at the OKC Travelers Aid adjacent to the bombed Murrah federal building one day before the OKC bombing. 6 FBI agents spent 9 months browbeating 4 witnesses at the Travelers Aid trying to make them change their story about seeing Lattimore at the Travelers Aid. No FBI sketches of Lattimore were ever done with the witnesses even though the FBI sketch artist Jean Boylin was available in OKC at the time. No FBI 302 interview notes with the witnesses were ever made available in the federal or OK state OKC bombing trials. Fox News bureau chief, Russ Cosby told me in 2004 that Fox News had determined that Lattimore had accompanied McVeigh at several other locations in OKC around the time of the OKC bombing.

In June through August 2001 AG Ashcroft (and DOJ IG Glen Fine) were informed of the Travelers Aid story in writing and in person by retired Air Force General Benton K. Partin. Yet intentionally nothing was done by Ashcroft or Fine about Lattimore.
One of the Travelers Aid witnesses, its director Gloria Smith, told Fox News reporters working for Russ Cosby during a taped interview that had Ashcroft and IG Fine had acted appropriately on the information it turns out that 9/11 should not have been allowed to happen, that is unless, it was intentionally allowed it to happen:
Lattimore was the roommate of the 20th 9/11 hijacker Zacarias Moussaoui while he attended the Airman flight school in Norman Oklahoma in 2000 and 2001.Lattimore also briefly roomed with 9/11 hijackers Al Hazmi and AlShehhi in Norman. The FBI was closely monitoring all of this in Norman at the time according to FBI documents obtained by reporter Greg Gordon.
Lattimore traveled to Minnesota in August 2001 to bail Moussaoui’s other roommate, AlAttas out of jail, at a time when Minneapolis FBI agents were holding Moussaoui and Al Attas and were being denied permission to search Moussaoui’s computer by senior FBI counter terrorism officials known to and close to Bush, Chertoff and John C. Richter.
end passages by Patrick B. Briley
~

This is the sort of stuff that the goddamned Federal government does not want us talking about. This is the sort of stuff which certain people posting here avoid like the plague, because this is the sort of stuff which makes everything I've said become "real" to readers who are trying to find the truth about the demise of America as brought about by the government's use of false-flag terrorism events. This is a picture into the inner workings of the domestic American Intelligence community and it gives hints about how certain criminals inside our Intelligence community operate - conspire - to arrange the public events which government uses to engender the fear-of-terrorism which they then use to control American citizens' behavior and soften-up the average American citizen to the point at which he becomes willing to accept the goddamned police state. This deals with the psychology behind false-flag events.

In my two major Conspiracy Theory threads here at TCF I've already covered this material in general ways, so I'm only bringing up this small bit here for the purpose of making the case for my belief that "It does matter!".  Until we identify the guilty criminals who arranged the attacks of 9/11, and discover how they used U.S. government assets (agencies and offices and finance) to carry out the attacks, we are totally subject to see that same group of conspirators, hidden now inside government seats of power, commit yet another horrendous false-flag attack on this nation. And when they do (remember, they've told us, "when - not if") they will drop that iron net of totalitarian police-state corporatized tyranny over all of our heads. Let us ask ourselves again - does that matter?

I think that matters a great deal.
Thank you for reading!
Salute!
Elias
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Elias Alias

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #341 on: August 06, 2007, 12:59:16 am »

Semper Fi Elias! Well written! Thanks for the info on Smedley Butler's book-I'll keep an eye out for that one!..............GA

Semper Fi youself, GreenArrow! Thank you for participating in this thread. In the post just above this one you'll also note that a four-star USAF General, Benton Partin, was mentioned. He wrote a report for the U.S. Senate after the 1995 OKC bombing, in which he points out clearly that the bombs which demolished the front of the OKC Fed building were placed inside the building. The truck bomb which McVeigh parked outside was the "patsy" bomb, the excuse the government could use to shift the blame from the BATFE/FBI to the "militia movement". As David Schippers put it in his interview with Alex Jones, "They had a real handy guy in McVeigh". Like James Earl Ray, McVeigh was a "willing dupe". A patsy.

And at times, a truly good man of conscience with the rank of General in the U.S. armed forces will come forward to help Americans figure out what's going on. Four-star General Smedley Butler was one. He is reputed as the only rival to the greatest Marine in U.S. history, Chesty Puller. 

Another great U.S. military General went on to become President, and his parting shot across the bow of the New World Order is here linked below. Keep in mind the pratings of the Project For A New American Century and the neo-cons who run the Bush-43 Administration while reading this classic:

http://www.thejeffersonrivergazette.com/military_industrial_complex_speech.htm

From Ike's farewell speech:

"Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

"We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."


~

Keep The Faith, GA,
Salute!
Elias
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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #342 on: August 06, 2007, 01:02:00 am »

Been following this on a couple of threads, now, Elias.  Keep up the good work, and illegitimi non carborundum.

cl

cl, I sure do appreciate your taking the time to do all that reading. I'll try to keep it down as much as I can, but I seem to be a long-winded old coot, lol. Thank you for following the unraveling and for caring. It's good to hear from you.

Salute!
Elias
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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #343 on: August 06, 2007, 01:17:33 am »


" In part, my mistake has been to presume that people who frequent TCF's boards are interested in discovering the truth behind the encroachment of the Police State."  (--Elias Alias)

It's not a mistake, Elias!  I have read much of the material you have talked about, and bought several dvds to share,  which actually lead to me finding this site in the first place last fall, but my "awakening" came only a year ago, and has involved way too much time at the computer.  I appreciate the research you have done to bring all this info together in one place.  Reminds me of Rupert's book, Crossing the Rubicon. 

Smedley's book can be read online here:   http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Howdy, the small one! Thank you for a good post on this old thread. I'm glad to know you've been passing around the DVDs. That is one thing we do here in SW Montana.  And thank you for posting the link to Butler's book online. On a side-note regarding Butler, I was at Camp Smedley Butler on Okinawa in both 1966 and 1967 going to and coming from Vietnam. It was a state-of-the-art major Marine Corps base named after him. I'm glad I got to be on that base briefly.

And thank you so much for mentioning Michael C. Ruppert's Crossing The Rubicon!  That is of course one of my most-used resource books. In fact, that little sweetie who is on Aaron Russo's America: Freedom To Fascism documentary film, Ms Catherine Austin Fitts of Solari, Inc. (solari dot com) and who wrote the foreword to Ruppert's bombshell book was in Kalispell, Montana, and Basil Fishbone and I were able to go up there and meet her for a personalized hug. She and I have been writing each other for years. She wrote something very nice and personal in the front of my copy of that book, and I'll always treasure it. :)  Ruppert's film of his address at Portland State University was one of the very first "conspiracy theory" documentaries I saw, and it was a big turn-on for me when he showed conclusively how Wall Street and the CIA play in bed together.  Whatever comes of Ruppert, he'll always have my gratitude for the amazing detective work he compiled.

Crossing The Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil
by Michael C. Ruppert; foreword by Catherine Austin Fitts; copyright 2004 by Michael C. Ruppert; New Society Publishers, P.O. Box 189, Gabriola Island, BC VOR 1XO, Canada, 1-800-567-6772


I'm very glad to see that you and I are on the same page. :)

Salute!
Elias

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Elias Alias

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Re: Conspiracy Theory _ Part Two
« Reply #344 on: August 06, 2007, 01:25:07 am »

Elias, keep up the good work, when does your book come out ?   

Howdy, Miles,
Long time no see. Thanks for your post here. The book is being "re-written" presently, as it has been for several months now. I'm wondering if I'll ever get it finished, lol. Some chapters are here:

http://www.thejeffersonrivergazette.com/911_Open_Letters.htm

and here:

http://www.thejeffersonrivergazette.com/Banking.htm

and elsewhere at The Jefferson River Gazette - http://www.thejeffersonrivergazette.com

Also, parts of my book are sitting right here on this old thread, lol.  Thanks for the interest, Miles. I'll be sure to let you know when I find a publisher for this mess.....

Hope all goes well with the Wyoming project. Send my salute to Boston next time you run into him.

Salute!
Elias
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