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Author Topic: Gold coin IRAs?  (Read 5096 times)

kbarrett

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Gold coin IRAs?
« on: September 16, 2005, 04:22:28 pm »

Does anyone have a recommendation for a Gold coin based IRA?

Yes ... leaving a fund in an IRA where the feds can get at it may be dangerous ... but does anyone here have any recommendations for an honest trustee or firm to deal with this issue?

I have a small IRA ... and a large 401k that will eventually need to be rolleded into it when I eventually stoip being a wage slave.

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Bear

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2005, 07:07:18 pm »

I'm of two minds on this idea.

1. IRAs are essentially after-tax money until the end of the year, when you can deduct the contribution.
On a paycheck to paycheck basis, it's functionally after-tax money. If you're going to buy gold with after-tax
money, why not buy coins you can keep in your hand, instead of having to trust somebody else?

2. Money rolled  over from a 401(k) plan is pre-tax money, even if it's in your IRA after rolling over. You could
buy more gold  this way than simply  buying it with after-tax dollars. The downside is that it seems to me that it
would be very visible to the Feds.

Here's what I suggest - I wouldn't put money directly into an IRA to buy gold, but if I had to roll-over a 401(k) plan
anyway, I might go for it.

How's that for being decisive? :)

Bear
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Silver

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2005, 09:37:01 pm »

Anyone with an IRA or 401(k) they control (trade any stock or fund they want) can buy gold or gold/silver any time they like.  No special arrangements are required.

Gold only:
http://www.gold-trust.com/  Pure gold bullion, kept safe in allocated storage in Canadian vaults.
Ticker is CLGLF.  Currently trading at a 6.6% discount to the underlying value of the metal.  Looks like a deal to me; I've been buying steadily.

50/50 gold and silver
http://centralfund.com/  Run by the same people, but has been around longer. Also uses allocated storage in Canadian vaults.  Ticker is CEF.  Silver isn't doing as well as gold right now, but if you want to play both metals, here is a choice.

Metal in your hand is better, but there are legitimate reasons to use 401(k) or IRAs. I purchase both physical metal and tax-advantaged positions in CEF and CLGLF

Peace,

Silver
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Lightning

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2005, 10:53:17 pm »

Interesting options, Silver.  This is probably a silly question, but could one redeem shares in such a fund for actual bullion at some point?  Of course the usual penalties and tax liabilities would kick in.  But could one take out a distribution or a loan from such an account, convert it to physical metals, and then repay the loan with FRNs, say?
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kbarrett

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2005, 02:46:44 pm »

Hokay .... looks way too simple. Start an IRA with an online broker ( scott trade, etc ), and roll the IRAs, 401ks, whatever, into it.

Buy Gold-Trust  fund with money in IRA account.

End o' problem.
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Misfit

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2005, 05:51:02 pm »

You guys are right on my wave length...it's kinda creeping me out. My IRA CD just came up and the thought just popped in my mind a few days ago to find out if I could roll it over into gold. I want to see what the penalty is for me to just cash it out (and then go buy gold coin). If it's a steep penalty then I'm just going to try doing this for the time being.

Thanks Silver for the referral....

Alton Speers

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2005, 06:30:08 pm »

The folks at The Daily Reckoning have been touting this offer by Everbank for gold CDs. Maybe this might suit your needs:
http://www.everbank.com/main.asp?idpage=pro_mscd&affid=eb&referID=11694


Alton
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Wyomiles

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 12:35:48 pm »

Digging up an old thread.
 I am looking into rolling my IRA into gold also . Have info coming from American Bullion . I was wondering if anyone has dealt with them or others like them? 

http://www.americanbullion.com/

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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2012, 03:36:25 pm »

You guys are right on my wave length...it's kinda creeping me out. My IRA CD just came up and the thought just popped in my mind a few days ago to find out if I could roll it over into gold. I want to see what the penalty is for me to just cash it out (and then go buy gold coin). If it's a steep penalty then I'm just going to try doing this for the time being.

It's expensive to cash out and buy gold. 10% penalty plus taxes on the whole thing, at whatever higher tax bracket the withdrawal puts you in. Still may be a better choice than watching your money become worthless.
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Mr. Dare

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 05:10:44 pm »

One thing that gets repeated over and over in these discussions is that "if you don't hold it, you don't own it". It looks like in order to keep it as an IRA rollover you don't actually hold the metals. If that is indeed the case it is no better than any other paper IRA. The real benefit of gold and silver is that while it may fluctuate some with the markets you can invest in something you actually keep control of. You buy or sell at your pleasure. As Bill said, that can get expensive if you have to cash out your IRA to buy the physical metals. In the long run you might very well come out to the good. But it is still a little bit of a gamble as to whether or not you will make any  significant profit after expenses. With a stock market investment you have little control over what happens to your investment. The same can be said of paper gold where someone else holds the metals and pockets fees when you buy and sell. I would want those expenses clearly established ahead of time before I made a decision, and I did not see that on my brief visit to the website. The other question only you can answer is how much do you trust the holder of the assets if things went sour in the world.
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Wyomiles

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 02:59:33 pm »

Thanks, I guess I figure the paper IRA I own now won't be there when I need it anyway. Not mentally ready to cash it in and take the penalties either. Even though deep down inside I know that would be the smart thing to do. Just thought if I have an IRA I might as well be in gold even though I don't hold it .
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Silver

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 12:54:10 pm »

You can set up a self directed IRA, then use the proceeds to buy gold and silver bullion.  The rules are strict and the process is expensive.  This probably isn't worth doing unless you have a six-figure balance in your IRA or 401(k), because there are several thousand dollars in fees involved.

I've done it.  I used https://assetexchangestrategies.com/
They did OK by me.  Not perfect, but OK.

Once you've set up an LLC and rolled IRA or 401(k) assets into it, you can buy (some) bullion, real estate (but NOT your house or your neighbor's house or your in-laws house...) or invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, private businesses.

The rules are strict and you will be under an IRS microscope.  Try to get cute and you'll lose it all.  Screw up and you WILL be hammered. 

That said, it's nice to know where the metal lies, and to have the keys.  I have no illusions that this will prevent them from stealing it all when it comes time to nationalize tax-deferred savings accounts, but the process will be a bit slower and more expensive for them.  That too is worth something.

Good luck.  I can't advise anyone on this, but I can tell you that it is possible.  I've done it.

Peace,

Silver
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 02:06:22 pm »

It's also possible to cash in your IRA/401K, take what's left after taxes and penalty, buy metal, and hide it where no IRS goon will know to look. Expensive, but leaves you with physical metal that's all yours.
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DiabloLoco

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 02:47:47 pm »

It's also possible to cash in your IRA/401K, take what's left after taxes and penalty, buy metal, and hide it where no IRS goon will know to look. Expensive, but leaves you with physical metal that's all yours.
I'd like to second that motion.  :mellow: Hold it = own it   Hold a paper that says you own it.....ummm No.

Personally, I have kept my 401k. With other disposable income, I buy silver ALMOST every week and prep items EVERY week. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
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Hutch

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Re: Gold coin IRAs?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 10:46:29 am »

I found some info on Kitco's site:

http://www.kitco.com/IRA_RSP/

http://www.kitco.com/IRA_RSP/ira.html?utm_source=www.kitco.com&utm_medium=slpash_ira_button&utm_content=301210_ira_splash_button&utm_campaign=ira_promotion

They list companies that they recommend:


As a leader in the precious metals industry, Kitco aligns itself with other expert companies to offer superior products and services to our customers. Kitco has established relationships with some of the most highly reputed, market-leading IRA custodians. Our customers can set up their precious metal IRA accounts with any of the following companies:

Sterling Trust Company
Established in 1974, the Sterling Trust Company, a division of the Equity Trust Company, is a leader in the self-directed retirement plan industry. Sterling Trust and its affiliates provide services to over 110,000 individuals and businesses nationwide with approximately $8 billion in assets under custodial and retirement administration. Sterling Trust is strictly regulated by state and federal regulators and is subject to Internal Revenue Service and U.S. Department of Labor regulations.

GoldStar Trust Company
Originally incorporated as the Colonial Trust Company in 1989, the GoldStar Trust Company is a trust branch of the Happy State Bank. Being part of a Texan bank, the company and its financial standing are closely monitored by the Texas Department of Banking and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. GoldStars financial robustness, high-quality service and comprehensive range of retirement services have helped make it one of Americas leading trust companies.

Provident Trust Group
Provident Trust Group, LLC is a full-service trust company, licensed and bonded for the purpose of administering custodial services, especially self-directed retirement plan administration. With full ERISA and IRS code compliance, Provident administers the accounts of over 10,000 clients with an emphasis on security, privacy and transparency. Its asset depository services help investors diversify beyond traditional investments and allow them to work directly with their advisors, agents and brokers.

NuView IRA, Inc
NuView IRA, Inc. is a self-directed IRA administration company that specializes in holding alternative investments within retirement plans. The company follows strict compliance requirements set forth by its custodial bank and the Kansas Department of Banking. The safety and security of its customers' accounts is a top priority for NuView IRA. Believing that personal service and client education are the true keys to success, NuView IRA offers hundreds of classes each year to educate people on the investment choices available for retirement plans. The company has a dedicated client services team to assist people with unlocking their IRAs to access wider investment choices.
Sunwest Trust
Sunwest Trust, Inc. began in 1987 as a small escrow company. In 2003, Sunwest Trust, Inc. received its trust powers, becoming the only company in New Mexico with the ability to act as both an escrow agent and a custodian for IRAs, with a special focus on self-directed IRAs. Sunwest currently services over 5,000 owner financing contracts and acts as custodian for over 5,000 IRAs with a combined value of over 1 billion dollars.

American Estate & Trust
American Estate & Trust, LC (AE-Trust) is a licensed trust company that is regulated and examined by the Nevada Financial Institutions Division. The company provides custodial and administrative services for IRAs, 401(k)s, health and educational savings accounts and pooled investment funds. AE-Trust is an Accredited Business and member in good standing of the Better Business Bureau, with no complaints having ever been lodged against the firm.

Self Directed IRA Services
Texas-based Self Directed IRA Services, Inc. (SDIRA Services) was founded in 2008 as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Horizon Bank (established in 1905). SDIRA Services provides administration and custody of alternative and traditional assets (precious metals, real estate, trust deeds, mortgages, tax liens, promissory notes, etc.) in self-directed IRAs of all types. The companys mission is to provide the highest level of customer service, attention to detail and dedication to its clients.

The Kingdom Trust Company
The Kingdom Trust Company was established in 2010 as a South Dakota chartered Trust Company to provide custodial services to investors who wish to diversify their retirement accounts and hold both traditional and non-traditional assets. The Kingdom Trust Company also accepts Perth Mint certificates for placement in self-directed IRAs. Kingdom was started by seasoned self-directed industry professionals who are committed to providing personal service to customers. The companys philosophy is that customers ought to be more than just account numbers. As such, the company assures its customers of speedy, accurate and courteous service.

Next Generation Trust Services
Next Generation Trust Services, LLC, based in Roseland, New Jersey, specializes in comprehensive account administration and support services for self-directed retirement plans, which clients control as they build wealth through the alternative investments allowed in these accounts.

Next Generation offers education and guidance about self-direction as a retirement strategy and the support needed to maintain these accounts. Next Generation holds the funds, provides administrative assistance, and files and manages all mandatory paperwork pertaining to the transactions for individuals who are making their own direct investments. For more information, contact Next Generation at 973-533-1880 or info@NextGenerationTrust.com.

What do I need to know?


Hutch
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