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Author Topic: Maintaining web sites  (Read 8094 times)

Jac

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2005, 11:24:11 am »

Hey, you beat me to it, snokrash... I was just gonna say, nano r0x0rs! :mellow:
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2005, 05:45:09 pm »

Quote
Quanta integrates quite well with HTML Tidy, and Klinkstatus.(and Quanta isn't that hard--if you can grasp vi, you can use Quanta, quite easily.)  I use Quanta for 99% of my developing.

Ah, good! A Quanta subject matter expert! Woohoo!

I'm just getting started with Quanta Plus, and I am not likely to get too involved for a few more weeks, but once I get my second box running I hope to investigate further. The Quanta documentation seems to be improving but is still geared toward experienced web developers and not us novices. Thus some questions if you don't mind!

Question: how do I use Quanta-Tidy to check all pages of a web site? I've learned how to Tidy only one page at a time.

Question: How do I disable or ignore specific Tidy rules? One rule that I want to ignore is the message that my tables do not contain a Summary attribute. Tidy seems to be the only validation tool that flags this :(.

Question: Does the FTP feature of Quanta Plus perform synchronizing while updating? That is, will the FTP tool 1) upload only those files that have changed and 2) delete files at the server that are no longer contained in the local copy (project)?

Question: I have two web site I have been maintaining using a colorized text editor (EditPad Pro) in Windows. I'd like to "migrate" those web sites to Quanta projects (I think that is the correct word to use). How do I "migrate" an existing "project"?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2005, 05:54:32 pm by Shevek »
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snokrash257

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2005, 09:18:58 pm »

Quote
Quanta integrates quite well with HTML Tidy, and Klinkstatus.(and Quanta isn't that hard--if you can grasp vi, you can use Quanta, quite easily.)  I use Quanta for 99% of my developing.

Ah, good! A Quanta subject matter expert! Woohoo!

I'm just getting started with Quanta Plus, and I am not likely to get too involved for a few more weeks, but once I get my second box running I hope to investigate further. The Quanta documentation seems to be improving but is still geared toward experienced web developers and not us novices. Thus some questions if you don't mind!

Question: how do I use Quanta-Tidy to check all pages of a web site? I've learned how to Tidy only one page at a time.

Question: How do I disable or ignore specific Tidy rules? One rule that I want to ignore is the message that my tables do not contain a Summary attribute. Tidy seems to be the only validation tool that flags this :(.

Question: Does the FTP feature of Quanta Plus perform synchronizing while updating? That is, will the FTP tool 1) upload only those files that have changed and 2) delete files at the server that are no longer contained in the local copy (project)?

Question: I have two web site I have been maintaining using a colorized text editor (EditPad Pro) in Windows. I'd like to "migrate" those web sites to Quanta projects (I think that is the correct word to use). How do I "migrate" an existing "project"?

I'm not a real expert, but I'll tell you what I know. :)--I've never tried it.
Q1: Don't think you can, as far as I know you can only do one page at a time (the one your currently working on)
Q2: You can't.  HTMLTidy use W3C web standards, and that's part of the standard.  (You can ignore it though.)
Q3: Yes to the first part--you can choose to just upload modified files. As far as the second part, I don't know any ftp tool thatdoes that (I've never used one that did anyways.)
Q4: You can make a new project in Quanta, and add the files, either from your website, or from a local folder.

(The Quanta Handbook--under the help menu--is actually pretty good.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2005, 09:40:20 pm by snokrash257 »
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2005, 11:14:36 pm »

Quote
Q1: Don't think you can, as far as I know you can only do one page at a time (the one your currently working on)

Bummer. :(

I've used CSE HTML Validator and I can check a gob of files in one pass. I can't imagine checking a web site of several hundred pages one page at a time!

Quote
Q2: You can't.  HTMLTidy use W3C web standards, and that's part of the standard.  (You can ignore it though.)

Bummer. :(

Yes, I realize I can ignore those messages I don't like, and I do, but I'd like even better if I could simply disable properties I don't want.

Quote
Q3: Yes to the first part--you can choose to just upload modified files. As far as the second part, I don't know any ftp tool that does that (I've never used one that did anyways.)

Bummer. :(

In Windows I use WS_FTP Pro Synchronize and that program allows me to create an ignore list. Otherwise anything found on the server not in the local directory is deleted. Very nice.

These are the little things that still annoy me with GNU/Linux. These kinds of options and features are found in the Windows and Mac world, but too many GNU/Linux developers are hard-core command line people and they don't exactly have a handle on usability. However, I will admit that Quanta Plus keeps adding features out the yazoo with each release. I think Eric Laffoon "gets it."

Likewise with KDE---for the most part. I'm still waiting for a simple KDE applet add-on that allows me to tickle the PC speaker whenever I toggle the Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, Num Lock, and Insert keys. I've had this ability in Windows for, what, 15 years now?

Quote
Q4: You can make a new project in Quanta, and add the files, either from your website, or from a local folder.

I tried toying with this after I posted. I haven't yet gotten the gist of how Quanta manages projects. I browsed the handbook, but I'm no web developer so I tend not to see things easily as web developers might. Of course, I'll just keep trying!
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2005, 12:17:01 am »

Quote
I think Eric Laffoon "gets it."

Does he?......or, is it, or will it be, just another of many apps that suffer from terminal feature bloat?*grin*

IMO I think html has gotten way too "busy" and most pages have an awful lot of crap in the formatting code that doesn't need to be, nor should it be there......after all it's about content, not the stuff you don't see.....

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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2005, 12:56:38 am »

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Does he?......or, is it, or will it be, just another of many apps that suffer from terminal feature bloat?*grin*

IMO I think html has gotten way too "busy" and most pages have an awful lot of crap in the formatting code that doesn't need to be, nor should it be there......after all it's about content, not the stuff you don't see.....

Oh, I agree with you Zoot about bloat. I too go back to the days of "small is good." I recall 25 years ago that people prided themselves in writing compact code. :thumbsup:

My point was not about bloat, however, but that useful features being added to the Quanta Plus program. For example, in my Windows way of doing things, I use a program called PowerGrep to search and replace common text in my entire web site. Yes, I know that one can do the same with the command line grep, but fooey on that! The GUI way is so nice and quick, with very nice visual feedback. No such tool existed in KDE until the last release of Quanta Plus and they now include an applet called KFileReplace, which works similarly to PowerGrep.

I use a Windows tool called CSE HTML Validator to validate all of my code and links. No such tool existed in KDE until the last release of Quanta included KLinkStatus. A couple of versions ago Tidy was included, although as discussed above, I don't know how to perform a mass validation of the entire site with Tidy.

As mentioned above, I use a Windows program to synch my local files with my web site. I don't think Quanta Plus is up to speed yet, although I am not an expert on the program. Yeah, I know about rsync, but I prefer a nice GUI feedback. I can do command line stuff, but I prefer point-and-click if the option exists.

And I agree with you about bloat in web pages. I detest JavaScript and Java. I do not have Java installed on my Windows box and never will. I browse with JS disabled 99% of the time. I maintain a white list for cookies and keep cookies otherwise disabled. I detest how almost every web developer designs web sits assuming everybody is on broadband. Because of this philosophy, and that I am on dial-up, I surf 95% of the time with images disabled. :BangHead:

And I'm sick of crappy HTML code that is not validated.  :angry4:

Yeah, I hear you regarding bloat and content! :)
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enemyofthestate

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2005, 01:22:40 am »

In Windows I use WS_FTP Pro Synchronize and that program allows me to create an ignore list. Otherwise anything found on the server not in the local directory is deleted. Very nice.

FTP?!  :puke:
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2005, 01:34:04 am »

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FTP?! :puke:

You lost me EOTS. I don't follow you :huh:
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"But there was always time for swimming and for talking, and never a time by which a task must be finished. There were no hours: only whole days, whole nights." The Children of the Open Sea, The Farthest Shore, Ursula K. Le Guin.

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enemyofthestate

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2005, 02:04:31 am »

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FTP?! :puke:
You lost me EOTS. I don't follow you :huh:

FTP deserves a well earned retirement.  It was designed back in the days when the Internet was tin cans and string, security was not an issue,  and X.25 was the latest in packet switching technology.

And I wanted to try out the barfing smiley...
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2005, 06:08:18 am »

Though I'll agree that FTP's security sux, it is a very useful and efficient way to get bits from one place to another. And it's supported everywhere. Yes, doing it through an SSH tunnel is better, but it works. Next thing you know you're going to be telling me to sell my shovel. :)
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snokrash257

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2005, 06:45:22 am »

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I think Eric Laffoon "gets it."

Does he?......or, is it, or will it be, just another of many apps that suffer from terminal feature bloat?*grin*

IMO I think html has gotten way too "busy" and most pages have an awful lot of crap in the formatting code that doesn't need to be, nor should it be there......after all it's about content, not the stuff you don't see.....


The "crap" in a lot of code comes from amatuers using Frontpage, or (even worse) Microsoft Word to make their webpages :nono:  :violent1:
The code those produce is unimaginably horrible.
(Even Dreamweaver makes sucky code, sometimes)
It, also, comes from people thinking they need to use js, or, Java, or Flash, (which all do have their places) when php, and css, and/or xhtml would suffice--and, make for cleaner code.
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2005, 12:40:54 am »

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The "crap" in a lot of code comes from amatuers using Frontpage, or (even worse) Microsoft Word to make their webpages. The code those produce is unimaginably horrible.

I hear ya! I developed my own personal template to convert and clean Word 97 HTML output. Works very well and I get very clean HTML code for my web site. But the sad part is that I have to do this in the first place.

I had hoped that OpenOffice would be better as a single source tool, but what I've read so far, OOo exports sloppy HTML too.
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enemyofthestate

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2005, 05:40:58 am »

I had hoped that OpenOffice would be better as a single source tool, but what I've read so far, OOo exports sloppy HTML too.

Definitely one area it should not try to emulate Word.  OTOH, if I use a WYSIWYG word processor to create HTML it is reasonable to assume I want the resulting HTML to look like a printed sheet of paper.
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2005, 11:46:50 pm »

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Definitely one area it should not try to emulate Word.

Ha ha! :lol:

Quote
OTOH, if I use a WYSIWYG word processor to create HTML it is reasonable to assume I want the resulting HTML to look like a printed sheet of paper.

I understand your meaning and I agree. Conversely, however, one of the Holy Grails of publishing is the missing single-source tool to allow exporting to many media formats. For example, I developed a Word template to write all of my essays and articles. I use styles and many macros to automate several tasks. But I also want to post those pieces to my web site, or send them to online magazine editors in HTML format. So I also developed a template (and many macros) to clean up the mess Word makes of an HTML export file. Now, if I can create a template to create clean HTML, then so can professional software developers. I use that latter template to create my HTML files for my web site. My HTML is clean and passes all of the validator tests I run on the site. Which is more than I can say about most of the web sites I visit designed by so-called professional web developers.

Yeah, normally I'd say use an HTML editor to produce HTML, but if the source is in a different format then we have to play the conversion game. And since OOo saves files in XML format, there really should be no excuses for crappy HTML exporting.
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eukreign

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2005, 06:52:07 pm »

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LinkChecker checks links, but doesn't validate HTML
Looks like that needs Python. Ugh.

Python is awesome! What are you talking about?!  ^_^
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