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Author Topic: Maintaining web sites  (Read 8095 times)

Shevek

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Maintaining web sites
« on: September 04, 2005, 09:20:27 pm »

Although I have a Slackware setup on my multi-boot computer, I primarily use my aging Windows NT4 OS to support my computer needs. I do not use Dreamweaver and am not interested in buying. I have access to FrontPage 2000, hate and loathe the program, but I load the monster for two specific tasks that FP performs wonderfully. For you folks who maintain web sites:

1. What local (non-online) software do you use to validate HTML code?
2. What local (non-online) software do you use to validate all links within a site?

I want to validate code on a site-wide basis, not on a page-by-page basis. Likewise with links.

I am comfortable around Slackware and if you use that OS to perform the above then I'm interested in what software you use. I need a local, non-online solution and one that is easy to install. I'm not into any geeky complicated scripts or command line methods of performing the above tasks.

Thanks.
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2005, 10:03:59 pm »

I use a text editor to write html markup and do "live testing" of links and such......but then again, I'm not really into building webpages.........
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2005, 04:09:35 am »

I, too, use a text editor for my HTML, plus an Emacs-based templating system that I wrote (BlogMax).

It looks like Site Valet has lots of features you're looking for in a Linux site checker, but they don't post prices, which usually means expensive.

LinkChecker checks links, but doesn't validate HTML

HTML Tidy validates and corrects HTML. It's a command line tool that operates on the files you specify. No link chasing, but it's pretty easy to specify all the files in a directory and its sub-directories. There are some GUIs for it listed in the right hand column of the linked page, but this one seems pretty natural for the command line. Remember, the command line is your friend. Many tasks are actually much easier there than with a GUI.

I couldn't find anything else in 15 minutes on Google, freshmeat.net and sourceforge.net
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enemyofthestate

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2005, 10:16:46 am »

I, too, use a text editor for my HTML, plus an Emacs-based templating system that I wrote (BlogMax).

It looks like Site Valet has lots of features you're looking for in a Linux site checker, but they don't post prices, which usually means expensive.

LinkChecker checks links, but doesn't validate HTML

HTML Tidy validates and corrects HTML. It's a command line tool that operates on the files you specify. No link chasing, but it's pretty easy to specify all the files in a directory and its sub-directories. There are some GUIs for it listed in the right hand column of the linked page, but this one seems pretty natural for the command line. Remember, the command line is your friend. Many tasks are actually much easier there than with a GUI.

I couldn't find anything else in 15 minutes on Google, freshmeat.net and sourceforge.net

There is an extension for firefox based on Tidy that will check the html in the currently loaded page:

http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/

I've found it works pretty well
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 11:00:44 pm »

Quote
I, too, use a text editor for my HTML, plus an Emacs-based templating system that I wrote (BlogMax).
I use a text editor too. In Windows I use EditPad Pro because of the nice colorization. Similarly, in Slackware/KDE I use KATE.

Quote
LinkChecker checks links, but doesn't validate HTML
Looks like that needs Python. Ugh.

Sometimes I use WDG HTML Validator to validate code and check links. There is an offline version (http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/offline/index.html.en), but I've never tried installing because I don't know anything about Perl. For whatever reason, the Windows version must be registered after 30 days. Go figure.

Quote
HTML Tidy validates and corrects HTML. It's a command line tool that operates on the files you specify.
I have been around pewters a long time, but I'm like many people these days and prefer a GUI tool versus command line and scripts. I have Quanta Plus installed on my Slackware and Quanta uses Tidy, but I never have figured out the general knack of things. I don't think Quanta checks links though.

Quote
There is an extension for firefox based on Tidy that will check the html in the currently loaded page
But I'm looking for a site-wide tool. ;)

Looks like the open source developers lack in this area. I don't get a fuzzy feeling about this area of open source software. I suppose I'll have to occasionally fire up FrontPage to do my link testing. It works wonderfully, but I have to manually delete all of those idiotic _vti_cnf folders when I'm finished.

Too bad. There should be a nice all-in-one package somewhere out there. I can see why many web people stick with Windows or the Mac---so they can use Dreamweaver. Maybe Quanta has added some better usability since the version I have installed. I hope to update KDE to version 3.4.2 sometime in the next couple of months.
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Roy J. Tellason

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2005, 01:16:27 am »

I, too, use a text editor for my HTML, plus an Emacs-based templating system that I wrote (BlogMax).

I have yet to really get into emacs or any other unixie-type editor,  just too alien from what I'm used to,  I guess.  Maybe if I get a book on one of them...

Quote
HTML Tidy validates and corrects HTML. It's a command line tool that operates on the files you specify. No link chasing, but it's pretty easy to specify all the files in a directory and its sub-directories. There are some GUIs for it listed in the right hand column of the linked page, but this one seems pretty natural for the command line. Remember, the command line is your friend. Many tasks are actually much easier there than with a GUI.

Looks nifty.  That's three today,  from you.  :-)

Ya gotta love an OS that lets you download/compile/install while yer still doing other stuff,  too.
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2005, 06:47:37 am »

I have yet to really get into emacs or any other unixie-type editor,  just too alien from what I'm used to,  I guess.  Maybe if I get a book on one of them...

Emacs takes a while to get your brain around, but once you do, once your fingers know how to type 25 or so one-character commands and you get used to the kill ring, dired, keyboard macros, automatic ftp connection to files, and, if you're programming oriented, emacs lisp for writing extensions, it's hard to go back.

If you really want to give it a try, no books are necessary. Type "emacs" at the command line, then "Ctrl-h t" (two characters, the first one with the "Ctrl" key held down and and press "h", the second one a "t"). This starts the Emacs tutorial, which teaches you the basics. After that, type "Ctrl-H i" to go into "Info" mode. There you'll find documentation for most of the Linux command line programs plus info & Emacs themselves.

Then, of course, you have to excercise your "Ctrl" pinky; you'll be using it a lot. :)
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Roy J. Tellason

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2005, 12:36:34 am »

I have yet to really get into emacs or any other unixie-type editor,  just too alien from what I'm used to,  I guess.  Maybe if I get a book on one of them...

Emacs takes a while to get your brain around, but once you do, once your fingers know how to type 25 or so one-character commands and you get used to the kill ring, dired, keyboard macros, automatic ftp connection to files, and, if you're programming oriented, emacs lisp for writing extensions, it's hard to go back.

If you really want to give it a try, no books are necessary. Type "emacs" at the command line, then "Ctrl-h t" (two characters, the first one with the "Ctrl" key held down and and press "h", the second one a "t"). This starts the Emacs tutorial, which teaches you the basics. After that, type "Ctrl-H i" to go into "Info" mode. There you'll find documentation for most of the Linux command line programs plus info & Emacs themselves.

Then, of course, you have to excercise your "Ctrl" pinky; you'll be using it a lot. :)


I used to...

Back when my Osborne Executive was my *only* machine,  I wanted really much to be a point system off one of the local fido nodes,  but that wasn't to be.  The one software package that I found that was supposed to do that wouldn't work for me,  so that had to wait until I graduated to an XT.  In the meantime,  I "downloaded" stuff by telling the bbs to go nonstop (which got me in trouble as my buffer was *way* smaller than the one in his modem!) and then used WordStar to "read" each message area and generate my replies.

So I thought I'd just try that command exampe you gave.  Apparently I don't have it installed,  so I guess this'll have to wait until I get around to doing my upgrade at which time I _will_ choose to install it rather than leaving it out as I usually do.  :-)

Are there particular advantages to using it?
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2005, 06:03:48 am »

Are there particular advantages to using it?

I mentioned above the major components of Emacs that I use nearly every day. The first thing I did when I got my new job seven years ago was find a version of Emacs that would run on Windows. A little while later, I installed it on our AIX box.

So it's hard for me to give you an unbiased opinion. Emacs rules!

But I haven't managed to convince anybody else in my office to use it. They're happy with vi or even simpler text editors. Infidels!

Actually, I think the real problem is that they've already learned a text editor and don't want to learn another one. I often have to use machines with nothing but vi, so I've learned my way around it well enough to get by for simple tasks, but I don't use it if I don't have to.

It would take a while to write down enough examples to properly motivate you. Easier to just play with it.

Remember, it's a text editor. It supports fonts and styles nowadays, but it's primary purpose is editing plain text. It's a programmer's editor.

Twenty years ago, it was the only way I interacted with Unix. I used it to read my mail, to manipulate files, to read usenet news, everything.
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"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Mutly

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2005, 09:18:14 am »

So it's hard for me to give you an unbiased opinion. Emacs rules!


Yet another forum that disolves into Emacs vs vi.....   :wacko:
My vote for VIM...   ^_^

I don't really write html.  I write perl code to write the html for me..... That way I never have to type the same thing twice.
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2005, 12:07:57 pm »

Yet another forum that disolves into Emacs vs vi.....   :wacko:
My vote for VIM...   ^_^

Hehe.

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I don't really write html.  I write perl code to write the html for me..... That way I never have to type the same thing twice.

Which is exactly what BlogMax does for me in Emacs. It wraps the templates around. Single letter commands paste in <a href="..."></a> tags and <blockquote></blockquote>, which is most of what I enter from day to day. I just write content and copy and paste links and quotes.
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2005, 12:15:45 pm »

Quote
I don't really write html.  I write perl code to write the html for me..... That way I never have to type the same thing twice.

That's the beauty of the common gateway interface it makes fast and easy work out of that which would normally be time consuming and cumbersome......*L*
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Shevek

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2005, 06:06:51 pm »

FWIW, last night I discovered a KDE applet called KlinkStatus that can check web site links. I have version 0.1.3, which proved to be buggy, but the latest version is 0.2.2. The applet is a part of the KDE web developer package, but can be compiled and installed separately.

I haven't yet investigated, but KlinkStatus is supposed to be integrated with Quanta Plus. So along with the Tidy module, Quanta would be a nice tool to check links and validate code. But I'm a novice with Quanta and the documentation seems written for experienced people so I'd have a steep learning curve ahead of me if I use that tool. Regardless, for KDE users, there are options to check links and validate web site code.
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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2005, 06:46:44 pm »


Yet another forum that disolves into Emacs vs vi.....   :wacko:
My vote for VIM...   ^_^


My favorite is still the EDT editor that came with DEC systems for many many years. TPU was okay too, once I programmed it to behave like EDT. (And no, it's EDT mode wasn't quite exactly like EDT. For example, it's word break pattern was a bit different.)

I have a good friend who's an EMACS fanatic. I once told him, "If I wanted to chord, I'd get a piano." :-)
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snokrash257

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Re: Maintaining web sites
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2005, 07:11:20 am »

Quanta integrates quite well with HTML Tidy, and Klinkstatus.(and Quanta isn't that hard--if you can grasp vi, you can use Quanta, quite easily.)  I use Quanta for 99% of my developing. 
(I use gedit for quick and dirty stuff)
When I used windows I used HTML Kit--it has HTMLTidy integrated, not sure about the linkchecker, it might be a plugin for it.  (HTML Kit is very extendable, I'd use it on Linux, if they ported it over.)
As far as Vi vs EMacs.  Nano all the way babeeee!!!!! For a CLI text editor, fast, clean, easy to use.  If I want more text editying power, I use OO.org.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2005, 07:14:25 am by snokrash257 »
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