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Author Topic: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?  (Read 1497 times)

mouse

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Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« on: July 11, 2016, 09:37:42 pm »

I can see why people don't bother to vote.  Why buy into this trickery?  However, what I don't get is:  "Why bother with the window dressing of "holding ballots"?  It is just insulting, why don't people realise that?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/brexit-vote-advisory-parliament-must-decide-lawyers-tell-064843735--business.html

LONDON (Reuters) - Lawmakers in parliament should decide whether Britain leaves the European Union because the Brexit vote was not binding, more than 1,000 prominent British lawyers said in a letter to Prime Minister David Cameron.

The signatories, which include senior lawyers, said that lawmakers should have a free vote in parliament before any British leader takes the decision to trigger the formal EU divorce procedure by invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty.

snip

So there'll be another situation, like the Irish rejecting the treaty of Lisbon in 2008 but being made to vote in another referendum, "UNTIL THEY GOT IT RIGHT"???


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MamaLiberty

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 06:36:03 am »

"Democracy" is the insane idea that people can't manage their own lives, but if enough of them "decide" something, that's what everyone should do. Democracy is probably the most evil lie on the planet, among so many others.

When large crowds do this on the street we call it "mob rule." Why should writing on slips of paper make it any different?
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 06:50:12 am »

Untitled essay by Larken Rose:

http://www.everything-voluntary.com/2012/11/toward-freedom-larken-rose.html

Now, most of the anarchists I know gave up statism because they decided that, as a practical matter, a completely free society would work better than any "government"-controlled society, and that "government" is not really necessary. But I arrived at anarchism/voluntaryism by a different route: I figured out, via simple logic, that "government" is impossible. I don't mean that good "government" is impossible (though it is); I mean that the entire concept of "government" is a self-contradictory myth. There's no such thing, and can be no such thing. There can never be a legitimate ruling class, so arguing about what kind of ruling class we should have, or what it should do, was a completely pointless discussion. If "government" isn't real, debating what it should be like is silly.

Of course, the gang of mercenaries is very real, as are the politicians, but it is the supposed legitimacy of their rule that makes them "government," and makes their commands "law," and makes disobedience to such commands "crime," and so on. Without the right to do what they do - without the moral right to rule - the gang ceases to be "government," and becomes organized crime. 

By trying to reconcile contradictions in my own political beliefs, I proved to myself that "government" can never be legitimate. It can never have "authority." However necessary it supposedly is, and however noble the stated goal might be, I eventually realized that it is utterly impossible for anyone to acquire the right to rule others, even in a limited, "constitutional" way.

(all emphasis mine. ML)
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 07:37:06 am »

I can see why people don't bother to vote.  Why buy into this trickery?  However, what I don't get is:  "Why bother with the window dressing of "holding ballots"?  It is just insulting, why don't people realise that?

The window dressing is there BECAUSE people don't get it.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -- Josef Stalin

When large crowds do this on the street we call it "mob rule." Why should writing on slips of paper make it any different?

MamaLiberty nails it.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

MamaLiberty

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2016, 08:12:41 am »

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -- Josef Stalin

The real question I ask people is: Why should either one decide anything? If it was unanimous, there would be no need for a "vote." If it is not unanimous, those who want it have no actual authority to decide it for those who do not.

Quote
"government" can never be legitimate. It can never have "authority." However necessary it supposedly is, and however noble the stated goal might be, I eventually realized that it is utterly impossible for anyone to acquire the right to rule others, even in a limited, "constitutional" way.
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 08:20:07 am »

The real question I ask people is: Why should either one decide anything? If it was unanimous, there would be no need for a "vote." If it is not unanimous, those who want it have no actual authority to decide it for those who do not.

Of course. That's another thing that most people don't get, and are prevented from EVER getting due to their brain-washing in the public schools.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

MamaLiberty

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 11:21:17 am »

are prevented from EVER getting due to their brain-washing in the public schools.

Hmmm... I know lots of people (including me) who went to "public schools," but don't show a lot of "brain washing."  Must have forgotten the detergent in my brain washing. LOL  The government "schools" are truly terrible, and responsible for so much evil, but they don't stand alone in that by any means. :)
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2016, 02:08:38 pm »

Hmmm... I know lots of people (including me) who went to "public schools," but don't show a lot of "brain washing."

I escaped it, too, or got over it. But statistically it works very well.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

MamaLiberty

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 02:30:37 pm »

I escaped it, too, or got over it. But statistically it works very well.

What are these statistics... and who compiles/computes them?  :laugh: I'm not trying to argue with it, of course... I don't know anyone who thinks government school is more evil than I do.  But I always wonder...
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: Votes not legally binding, then what is democracy?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 03:30:29 pm »

What are these statistics... and who compiles/computes them?  :laugh: I'm not trying to argue with it, of course... I don't know anyone who thinks government school is more evil than I do.  But I always wonder...

Nobody collects those statistics as far as I know. I'm just judging from visiting my son's public high school, where he went for grades 7 and 8. The regimentation was stifling. Maybe the worship of the government religion is inculcated more by culture than schooling. I don't know.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair
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