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Author Topic: When the police pull you over....  (Read 6502 times)

Bill St. Clair

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2016, 04:36:13 pm »

And the probable cause can be that the LEO smells something funny from your car, while it does or not, it is a judgement call for the LEO to make.
And it can be made at anytime the LEO wants, when he/she has you pulled over.

but the LEO still needs a Warrant to search any place that is locked.

When you're sitting in a court room, wearing a wig and a black dress, it's easy to convince yourself that "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion" actually mean something. A cop hot for an arrest can invent any of that out of whole cloth. Or convince his dog to "signal". Or convince a judge to issue a no-knock search warrant on the word of a know felon, and then raid the wrong address.

The Fourth Amendment is toast.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

FDD

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2016, 05:43:57 pm »

And the probable cause can be that the LEO smells something funny from your car, while it does or not, it is a judgement call for the LEO to make.
And it can be made at anytime the LEO wants, when he/she has you pulled over.

but the LEO still needs a Warrant to search any place that is locked.

When you're sitting in a court room, wearing a wig and a black dress, it's easy to convince yourself that "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion" actually mean something. A cop hot for an arrest can invent any of that out of whole cloth. Or convince his dog to "signal". Or convince a judge to issue a no-knock search warrant on the word of a know felon, and then raid the wrong address.

The Fourth Amendment is toast.

agree

best to not get pulled over in the first place.
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If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2016, 09:15:35 pm »

Guys, you DO know that Utah just made sure we don't need probable cause anymore, right?  Probably a week or so ago...  If I remember to dig up the article I read at armstrongeconomics blog side, I'll reply with a link too.  Just wait for all the other states to follow suit.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2016, 10:08:38 pm »

SCOTUS also recently ruled that evidence collected by illegal searches is now admissible.  So, it's fishing season year round now.

.
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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2016, 10:54:24 am »

SCOTUS also recently ruled that evidence collected by illegal searches is now admissible.  So, it's fishing season year round now.

.

Oh that's right, that's the one where Sotomayor dissented (surprising, since she was an Obama appointee.)
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

MamaLiberty

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2016, 11:17:17 am »

Oh that's right, that's the one where Sotomayor dissented (surprising, since she was an Obama appointee.)

Stopped clock and all that. :)

Actually, I've been trying to think of something in my life (at least in the last ten years) that was radically changed by any "supreme court" decision. Not coming up with anything so far...  Anybody else?
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FDD

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2016, 02:09:34 pm »

Oh that's right, that's the one where Sotomayor dissented (surprising, since she was an Obama appointee.)

Stopped clock and all that. :)

Actually, I've been trying to think of something in my life (at least in the last ten years) that was radically changed by any "supreme court" decision. Not coming up with anything so far...  Anybody else?

Just the one were slick willie got passed, about an order of protection and losing your right to own guns. no matter where you live or who filed it against you.
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Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY

MamaLiberty

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2016, 02:36:16 pm »

Just the one were slick willie got passed, about an order of protection and losing your right to own guns. no matter where you live or who filed it against you.

Did that happen to you? If so, then bummer.

Never had an "order of protection" myself - either coming or going.
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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

FDD

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2016, 03:26:13 pm »

Just the one were slick willie got passed, about an order of protection and losing your right to own guns. no matter where you live or who filed it against you.

Did that happen to you? If so, then bummer.

Never had an "order of protection" myself - either coming or going.

It did, took over a year to get straiten out. I did it, but changed my outlook on the police. all police.
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Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY

MamaLiberty

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2016, 03:41:56 pm »

It did, took over a year to get straiten out. I did it, but changed my outlook on the police. all police.

Eee gads. You were lucky, I think.

My outlook on cops in general was seriously warped after several years working with them in the town's emergency center, and in the community emergency committee I was part of through the 70s and 80s. Arrogant bastards, almost without exception.... But back then they were pretty much restrained from the crap going on today.  The sheriff's deputies were much better then, but I am aware now that the San Bernardino sheriff's office is pretty much corrupt and no better than the infamous "Rampart" division of the LAPD.  Anyway, I was never tempted to go to them when my first husband became abusive. I just left and never looked back. He knew I was armed (however inadequately) and never tried to harass me.

Luckily, the sheriff here, and his merry band, are peace officers instead.
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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

Splash22

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2016, 05:31:01 pm »

I know they can do a "Terry" search of the inside were I was sitting, but anywhere else needs a warrant to look.
did not have to worry about the CC in ILL, because Ill did not have it then.

but if you tell them no, you can sure bet they will hold you longer while they try and think up some to use on you anyway.

And other stuff... 
Do you have a copy of "You and the Police" by Boston T Party?  http://javelinpress.com/you_and_the_police.html

ABOUT YOU AND THE POLICE!

Until now, the average American has lacked a simple, up-to-date summary of constitutional law regarding confrontations with the police. More and more peaceable, law-abiding folks are being caught up in the widening police dragnet of roadblocks, checkpoints,  searches, intrusive questioning  and civil forfeitures.  Americans have long needed a clear explanation of exactly where our rights end and executive power begins, especially if you travel or carry a gun.

More than a legal handbook, You & The Police! explains precisely how to win police confrontations using: sample dialogue, "what-if" scenarios, and practical tips. Armed  with this book, you will know just how to avoid traffic tickets, bogus searches, roadside delays, and general harassment. Probably 90% of erroneous civil  forfeitures from honest folks could have been avoided had they known about this  book. There is no reason for us to be bluffed or intimidated by the police any longer.
Incorrect .
 A Terry Stop is not applicable in the situation you described.
A terry stop, includes what used to be called "in hot pursuit"...during the suspicion of a crime. Driving erratically, leaving the scene of an accident, tearing away from a bank that's just been robbed.
 Sitting in your car does not grant a terry stop by police.

"A "Terry Stop" is a stop of a person by law enforcement officers based upon "reasonable suspicion" that a person may have been engaged in criminal activity, whereas an arrest requires "probable cause" that a suspect committed a criminal offense. The name comes from the standards established in a 1968 case, Terry v. Ohio."
http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terry-stop/

And the probable cause can be that the LEO smells something funny from your car, while it does or not, it is a judgement call for the LEO to make.
And it can be made at anytime the LEO wants, when he/she has you pulled over.

but the LEO still needs a Warrant to search any place that is locked.

Uh...no...unless the cop has a super bionic dog nose to smell your car interior while you're driving past him?
A terry stop means suspicion of a crime is happening before he stops you.
Reasonable suspicion means he isn't sure.
suspicion=suspects.
He must state what  alleged offence is his pulling you over for.
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FDD

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2016, 05:37:02 pm »

I know they can do a "Terry" search of the inside were I was sitting, but anywhere else needs a warrant to look.
did not have to worry about the CC in ILL, because Ill did not have it then.

but if you tell them no, you can sure bet they will hold you longer while they try and think up some to use on you anyway.

And other stuff... 
Do you have a copy of "You and the Police" by Boston T Party?  http://javelinpress.com/you_and_the_police.html

ABOUT YOU AND THE POLICE!

Until now, the average American has lacked a simple, up-to-date summary of constitutional law regarding confrontations with the police. More and more peaceable, law-abiding folks are being caught up in the widening police dragnet of roadblocks, checkpoints,  searches, intrusive questioning  and civil forfeitures.  Americans have long needed a clear explanation of exactly where our rights end and executive power begins, especially if you travel or carry a gun.

More than a legal handbook, You & The Police! explains precisely how to win police confrontations using: sample dialogue, "what-if" scenarios, and practical tips. Armed  with this book, you will know just how to avoid traffic tickets, bogus searches, roadside delays, and general harassment. Probably 90% of erroneous civil  forfeitures from honest folks could have been avoided had they known about this  book. There is no reason for us to be bluffed or intimidated by the police any longer.
Incorrect .
 A Terry Stop is not applicable in the situation you described.
A terry stop, includes what used to be called "in hot pursuit"...during the suspicion of a crime. Driving erratically, leaving the scene of an accident, tearing away from a bank that's just been robbed.
 Sitting in your car does not grant a terry stop by police.

"A "Terry Stop" is a stop of a person by law enforcement officers based upon "reasonable suspicion" that a person may have been engaged in criminal activity, whereas an arrest requires "probable cause" that a suspect committed a criminal offense. The name comes from the standards established in a 1968 case, Terry v. Ohio."
http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terry-stop/

And the probable cause can be that the LEO smells something funny from your car, while it does or not, it is a judgement call for the LEO to make.
And it can be made at anytime the LEO wants, when he/she has you pulled over.

but the LEO still needs a Warrant to search any place that is locked.

Uh...no...unless the cop has a super bionic dog nose to smell your car interior while you're driving past him?
A terry stop means suspicion of a crime is happening before he stops you.
Reasonable suspicion means he isn't sure.
suspicion=suspects.
He must state what  alleged offence is his pulling you over for.

The cop has pulled you over because of speeding, or broken tail light, or no sticker on the LP.
that is the crime for the stop, then when you roll down your window to ask for your papers, he/she claims they smelled something funny from your car.
and that is then when they do the Terry search of the car, but only were you are seated in the car and were you can reach within the car.

anyway, when did the police breaking the rules ever stopped them from doing anything?
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Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2016, 08:19:32 pm »

Oh that's right, that's the one where Sotomayor dissented (surprising, since she was an Obama appointee.)

Stopped clock and all that. :)

Actually, I've been trying to think of something in my life (at least in the last ten years) that was radically changed by any "supreme court" decision. Not coming up with anything so far...  Anybody else?

You forget that these guys write "dissenting opinion."  Hers was astounding.  Stopped clock my ass.  She called it what it is, you should look it up.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

knobster

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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2016, 06:47:56 am »

Got pulled over the other night.  Going 45 in a 35.  Shame on me I guess...

Police officer was courteous, I responded in kind.  Produced the paperwork upon request.  He went back to his car and ran my name against their Big Brother Database, came back a minute later, gave me a warning and then we talked about deer hunting for ten minutes.

I could have raised a big stink, got my panties in a wad and been hostile about the whole situation but then I'd probably either be in a courtroom or hospital bed right now.  Instead, I learned that Officer Allen is married with kids, enjoys bow-hunting and took a 6-point buck last month.
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Re: When the police pull you over....
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2016, 06:53:23 am »

Got pulled over the other night.  Going 45 in a 35.  Shame on me I guess...

Police officer was courteous, I responded in kind.  Produced the paperwork upon request.  He went back to his car and ran my name against their Big Brother Database, came back a minute later, gave me a warning and then we talked about deer hunting for ten minutes.

I could have raised a big stink, got my panties in a wad and been hostile about the whole situation but then I'd probably either be in a courtroom or hospital bed right now.  Instead, I learned that Officer Allen is married with kids, enjoys bow-hunting and took a 6-point buck last month.

Not all LEO's are bad or stupid, but the number of good one to bad is very very low.
like .0001%  of the whole. be thankful you had a nice one.
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Nobody needs an AR-15
Nobody needs a whiny little bitch ether, yet here you are

If we want our grandchildren to be able to give thanks for being Americans, we'll need to.....start steering a course away from government control of our lives-and start moving back toward greater personal responsibility.   Ed Feulner

I think, therefore I am not a progressive liberal socialist marxist democrat

That's WY
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