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Author Topic: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')  (Read 1781 times)

mi6a2lm

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hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« on: September 28, 2015, 04:35:16 pm »

If you've been reading the news you know that VW allegedly wrote some code to get around emissions.  When emissions person plugs in emissions reader (check CO, NOx, etc.) it spits out data that is go/nogo - numbers/thresholds which vary by state.  With my old truck they have to do the Snuffleupagus thing with the tailpipe.  Then after the VW 'puter goes back to normal. 

Now, if you own one of the offending VW diesels I assume (in ignorance) this will be a relatively simple recall.  Something like flashing a BIOS or updating an app or software to become 'compliant'.

Questions:

1.  Anyone know what lang VW code is written in?
2.  It's probably not open source.  If it is are there going to be hacker aftermarket solutions to get it back into non-compliance (i.e. the way drivers want it)?  VW could release the code.  I know that there are high-performance electronic parts/chips that you can buy that can enhance or change things for a vehicle that has an electronic 'brain' - ECU or ECM.  Electronic Contral Unit/Module.
3.  How did this get found out?  Disgruntled VW electronic engineer/coder or EPA super-sleuth coder working for The Man?
4.  Does VW have an API they release so coders can tinker with it?


links:
http://ericpetersautos.com/2015/09/23/crucified-by-uncle/
http://ericpetersautos.com/2015/09/25/the-mushroom-cloud-expands/

  :laugh:
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“This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.” - ADM James Stockdale

Bill St. Clair

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 05:23:03 pm »

Software updates for cars are pretty common. I don't know any details. Some VW owners might prefer to keep the current settings. They likely get better gas mileage for worse emissions. The first thing my dad did when he got a new Jeep Wagoneer was to remove the catalytic converter to improve the gas mileage. But that was before yearly emissions tests.
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mi6a2lm

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 05:33:19 pm »

In this state and area you have to get emissions before re-registering/registering vehicle.  And there's the rub. 
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“This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.” - ADM James Stockdale

Bill St. Clair

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2015, 08:35:13 pm »

In this state and area you have to get emissions before re-registering/registering vehicle.  And there's the rub.

VW's problem was that they made the change automatic. Instead, there needs to be an app that puts it in "inspection mode". Wait. That would be illegal.
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 02:41:28 am »

Oh, hell, not that I'm advising this, but I've heard of some folks who set up a secondary recirculator of sorts similar to a turbo, but instead with an electronic gate, actuated voluntarily.  Enter economy/clean mode, or disable for performance.  Far as I see, basically acts as a two pass cat, instead of single pass.  Cleans up emissions and lowers performance.  Also increases fuel economy, far as I get it.  Most modern vehicles require a throttled down exhaust and back pressure.  So those who open the exhaust actually ruin their fuel mileage on low compression modern vehicles.  Older ones probably benefitted, but newer ones actually enter misfire management mode when someone slices the cat off.  I run a pretty high end engine monitoring unit on my OBD2 cars when testing to see real time info.

Not that I'm an expert in "illegal modifications" and such, but lets say that you'd get more done by simply removing WEIGHT on a car.  Take a 4 liter, 120-150 horsepower 1987 toyota camry engine, JDM or USDM.  Both achieved excellent fuel mileage, ours got over 40 mpg WITH catalytic converter, automatic transmission, air conditioning and 3 or 4 people in it.  It barely weighed 2500 lbs.  Newer vehicles get 30'ish unloaded.  And they weigh almost twice that much!!!  Question begs asking: why the extra 2000 lbs on small sedans?!  They aren't any quieter.  So what did they put in, em, CONCRETE?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 02:43:04 am by Destin Faruda »
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

mi6a2lm

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 02:42:03 am »

My '06 Corolla (125K miles) has been good to me.  With VW in the news I visited a rot lot* and they had a Jetta TDI Wagen for $10995 (craigslist link).  I've never owned a diesel but in-law has an old stick Ford Ranger with a diesel engine and I always liked it.  Current UNL gas is the same as diesel locally - $2.19/gal.

They were willing to give me $2K on the spot for Corolla and after (personal**) credit check they could do $191/mo. for 60 mo.  Two days later they called back and I mentioned the 'scandal' plus I'm going to be paying more for full coverage.  My current offer:  $150/mo. for 60. mo [no prepayment penalty].

* Marketing/AP/AR girl was invited for visit but she had other things to do.  She has experience and knows the lingo, i.e. 'plus, plus, plus, OTD' means 'tax, title, license/registration out-the-door' - taken care of by dealer.  She's a fan of the larger dealers because they have a higher standard if they do used cars at all.  'Rot lot' is 'used car dealership'.

**The lgr. dealers pulled my credit 'officially', which means your credit (if you care about it) takes a hit.  This smaller just did a 'personal' check which he said doesn't do that.

One other concern is maintenance.  I don't like working on things that get me from A to B.  With the Corolla I get in it, turn the key and go.  However, VW just passed Toyota in sales which means there are a lot of VW's out there for parts.  I don't know how to change the oil on a Jetta, however I've rarely raised the hood on the Corolla and its oil changes are done at Wal-Mart.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 02:54:40 am by mi6a2lm »
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mi6a2lm

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 02:49:09 am »

Oh, hell, not that I'm advising this, but I've heard of some folks who set up a secondary recirculator of sorts similar to a turbo, but instead with an electronic gate, which basically cleans up emissions and lowers performance.  Also increases fuel economy, far as I get it.  Most modern vehicles require a throttled down exhaust and back pressure.  So those who open the exhaust actually ruin their fuel mileage on low compression modern vehicles.  Older ones probably benefitted, but newer ones actually enter misfire management mode when someone slices the cat off.  I run a pretty high end engine monitoring unit on my OBD2 cars when testing to see real time info.

Any links to the recirculation thing?  The one I'm looking at (above post) is TDI diesel.  On the other hand, I want to just get in it and go.  Not a fan of tinkering - unless I can buy something off-the-shelf or from China (alibaba) and plug it in.  The RMZ bike in the 'for sale' is an example of something I would maybe tinker with, but if I get cash for it, it's gone.  My joke is that if a wrench ever gets near the engine of the Versys (KAW) I'm done with it.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 02:51:41 am by mi6a2lm »
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“This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.” - ADM James Stockdale

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 03:38:31 am »

Oh, hell, not that I'm advising this, but I've heard of some folks who set up a secondary recirculator of sorts similar to a turbo, but instead with an electronic gate, which basically cleans up emissions and lowers performance.  Also increases fuel economy, far as I get it.  Most modern vehicles require a throttled down exhaust and back pressure.  So those who open the exhaust actually ruin their fuel mileage on low compression modern vehicles.  Older ones probably benefitted, but newer ones actually enter misfire management mode when someone slices the cat off.  I run a pretty high end engine monitoring unit on my OBD2 cars when testing to see real time info.

Any links to the recirculation thing?  The one I'm looking at (above post) is TDI diesel.  On the other hand, I want to just get in it and go.  Not a fan of tinkering - unless I can buy something off-the-shelf or from China (alibaba) and plug it in.  The RMZ bike in the 'for sale' is an example of something I would maybe tinker with, but if I get cash for it, it's gone.  My joke is that if a wrench ever gets near the engine of the Versys (KAW) I'm done with it.

Skip it.  I tinker enough for both of us.  The setup I saw, I saw personally, wasn't on the web, and the guys, far as I know, never published about it.

It wouldn't be a bolt on, it'd be a splice/weld on. 

Too expensive labor wise if you're not doing it yourself and those guys are somewhere on the east coast nowdays, I know not where.  Haven't been there in a few years, y'know?

Your best bet is to either chip the corolla if you want better mileage/emissions or replace the Engine Control Unit/Module or the Power Control Module.  There are plenty of after market bolt on kits for chipping small japanese imports.  And since you're not planning to race your corolla (far as I can tell) you can easily tune for efficiency on an already gas sipping engine.  I haven't modded a japanese car since I left the coast, and since corollas weren't exactly what the kiddies wanted to work on, we ended up tweaking Accords, Civics and Integras while I was there.

The irony is that there's a total overabundance of aftermarket parts for japanese vehicles.

Preferably, get one with wired preset points.  That way you can switch engine tuning on the fly.  Not that you'll get a screaming quarter mile drag car out of a corolla anywhere outside of the movies, but you can switch between peppy driveability to long distance extra conservative fuel sip.  Then again, an 08 corolla should be getting around 42 on the highway, and that's EPA rating.  You'll probably get 45 or so if you're not a lead foot.

Any other mods are too involved, too much work, and most of it is stuff that'll get your car impounded in Singapore.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

heyoka

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2015, 09:19:08 am »

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mi6a2lm

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 10:48:14 pm »

Hitler Reacts To The VW-EPA Scandal Dieselgate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JFpiCA  [3:50]
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“This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.” - ADM James Stockdale

leetpiotr

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Re: hackers needed (VW 'scandal')
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 11:26:37 pm »

Very interesting post, thanks
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