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[Moonbeam]

A summary offered over at the Daily Paul:

http://www.dailypaul.com/318382/i-was-asked-to-publish-my-impressions-of-the-bundy-ranch-drama-so-here-it-is

There's a lot of simple misunderstanding going on here but these are mostly misunderstandings among men of good faith...

For some positive news, a lot of lessons were learned and this was the first time some of the miltias had ever worked together (with or without the often-repeated-mantra “we're NOT militia, we're OathKeepers”). New bonds of trust and friendship have been formed no matter what it looks like on the surface and this was just the beginning. I expect there will shortly come an announcement of another action, an action having nothing to do with Bundy land or the Bundy family specifically. I think we can all feel grateful that no human lives were lost to us or to the Feds (Feds have children too) and that a statement was made that was heard literally around the world.

And from BenSwann.com:

http://benswann.com/perspective-3-days-in-bunkerville-at-the-bundy-ranch/
Perspective: 3 Days In Bunkerville At The Bundy Ranch

Written by Guest Contributor, Bryan Daugherty

Bangor, Maine- It was only weeks ago when with the news of Cliven Bundy and his ranch being surrounded by federal agents, specifically the Bureau of Land Management, I found my way from Bangor, Maine to Cliven Bundy’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada. </snip>

[StillaGhost]

Maybe next time a dd 214 should be required for everyone claiming to be a seal, SF, Ranger, infantry or whatever.

 
 
 
   Bad idea unless you have a method of absolutely securing that information , not the sort of info that should be falling into the wrong hands.
 
   And the whole Bundy thing was a clusterf*** , reread what Gooch stated for emphasis on the massive egos that got involved , along with of course the tactical mistakes made.

[DiabloLoco]

Maybe next time a dd 214 should be required for everyone claiming to be a seal, SF, Ranger, infantry or whatever.

 
 
 
   Bad idea unless you have a method of absolutely securing that information , not the sort of info that should be falling into the wrong hands.
 
   And the whole Bundy thing was a clusterf*** , reread what Gooch stated for emphasis on the massive egos that got involved , along with of course the tactical mistakes made.

Chihuahua comments aside , being that you were there, could you provide your take on it? I, and I'm sure many others, would love to hear of your experiences there.

[jamie]

According to Laurence Vance and Silver the military is evil, stupid, mindless, brutal and absolutely without redemption.

Might ask the average Iraqi and Afghanistan villager... as they mourn their dead sisters and mothers, brothers and fathers. There are no doubt individual military members with actual hearts and minds, and sorrowfully, I suspect that many or most of those are taking their own lives or joining the ranks of veterans with damaged minds and PTSD, etc.  Would not that indicate that there was a serious problem with the entire set up?

I did ask the "average Afghanistan villager", it is more complicated than you posit here. Every veteran who saw anything in any war fits your "damaged minds and PTSD " to some extent.

Your simplistic "would that not indicate that there was a serious problem with the entire set up" not with standing. Of course everyone with a brain can see that.

I am more than a little tired of non combatants lecturing and hectoring.

[MamaLiberty]

Every veteran who saw anything in any war fits your "damaged minds and PTSD " to some extent.

Of course! That was the whole point.  And the same is true of every man, woman and child who watched their loved ones go off to "war," even if they managed to come back. EVERYONE is damaged, many irreparably, by any involvement in aggression, of whatever kind. Is it "simple?" No, of course not. The solution is to stop the aggression, and while that should be easy to understand, getting people to quit defending aggression this way is most certainly not.

And no, I don't buy your last statement either.  I don't think anyone has to experience slavery to know it is evil and always wrong. I don't need to experience life as a cop to know that the thugification of police across the country is evil and wrong.  I did live a good part of my life as a Marine "brat" and a Navy wife. I've seen the evil close up and personal. I don't need to go to Iraq to understand it.

[StillaGhost]

 The solution is to stop the aggression, and while that should be easy to understand, getting people to quit defending aggression this way is most certainly not.

 
 
   Good luck on that one. Getting a buncha hairless apes with aggression hardwired into their cortex by evolution to forego opportunities for same is indeed a Herculean task. To defend aggression is to prop up their socalled ideals and social construct , to deny aggression would shake their foundations too much for comfort.

[Rarick]

Some of the veterans have a better stocked means of processing violence than others. I think that most of the veterans are varying degrees of the kid in the movie "Platoon" come to fight a war for "mom, pop and apple pie in a righteous manner"  and get violently disillusioned when they discover the war is about "Getting there firstest with the moistest to support that liberty bitch in the style she has become accustomed.  Baby seal? fuck the seal I need a coat!"

[da gooch]

 The solution is to stop the aggression, and while that should be easy to understand, getting people to quit defending aggression this way is most certainly not.

 
 
   Good luck on that one. Getting a buncha hairless apes with aggression hardwired into their cortex by evolution to forego opportunities for same is indeed a Herculean task. To defend aggression is to prop up their socalled ideals and social construct , to deny aggression would shake their foundations too much for comfort.

I doubt that there is a population anywhere on this planet we call home that doesn't have its vested interest in the subtle aggression commonly known as "human ego"* and the "search for Personal Accomplishment".
The Best Baker aggressively strives to make his/er bread The Best.
Aggression is part and parcel of the human animal. Limiting its excesses would seem to be the task at hand not "killing" or "removing" it. A lobotomy removes all aggression period. Is that what any of you would want for yourselves, for your progeny or the rest of humanity?



* The ego that gets you out of bed in the morning not the Ego that wants to Rule the World.

edit to change an incorrect word

[MamaLiberty]

Aggression is part and parcel of the human animal. Limiting its excesses would seem to be the task at hand not "killing" or "removing" it. A lobotomy removes all aggression period. Is that what any of you would want for yourselves, for your progeny or the rest of humanity?

Self interest, the drive to survive, is the key to all human achievement, as well as true peace and prosperity. Aggression (willingness to harm others) very naturally springs from that as well, but is not the same thing, I think. I've known a great many people with incredible drives and honest self interest who would not dream of harming another person. The trick is to keep them separate, I guess.

The great evil is the lie of "altruism," the subjugation of all true self interest to the hive mentality. Since it is nearly impossible to destroy the self, without being dead, those who subscribe to this philosophy become more or less bitter, angry, resentful, and become aggressors, even if only by proxy.

Seems to me that the answer to that is self defense, for starters, and refusal to feed the hive as much as possible. Can non hive humans survive, let alone win out over the collective. I don't know, but I have a lot of hope.

[StillaGhost]

Self interest, the drive to survive, is the key to all human achievement, as well as true peace and prosperity. Aggression (willingness to harm others) very naturally springs from that as well, but is not the same thing, I think. I've known a great many people with incredible drives and honest self interest who would not dream of harming another person. The trick is to keep them separate, I guess.

The great evil is the lie of "altruism," the subjugation of all true self interest to the hive mentality. Since it is nearly impossible to destroy the self, without being dead, those who subscribe to this philosophy become more or less bitter, angry, resentful, and become aggressors, even if only by proxy.

Seems to me that the answer to that is self defense, for starters, and refusal to feed the hive as much as possible. Can non hive humans survive, let alone win out over the collective. I don't know, but I have a lot of hope.

 
 
    Now we're getting to the meat of the matter. That self interest that you refer to , when allowed to get out of control and fed by greed produces sociopathic behavior of the sort exhibited within most National , State , Territorial etc etc Capitals the world round , along within the top ranks of financial institutions , the corporatocracies..........
 
  When self interested individuals manage to inflict their " interests" on other people and then exploit them to serve said "interest".............view the results nightly on the 11 o'clock news.
 
 
   As for non hive types surviving , well they have for eons. They are the genetic pool which replenishes the stock when the Hives go to war and kill each other off. Problem being that the evolutionary path is for yet more Hives to eventually develop and the same sort of scenario to ensue once again.