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Author Topic: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House  (Read 5143 times)

Basil Fishbone

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"Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« on: April 11, 2011, 06:43:42 pm »

There was a major controversy over this bill, and the Senate passed an unacceptable bill out of the Judiciary committee with onerous training and paperwork requirements added on.  The grassroots revolted.  The House removed those stipulations and improved the bill.  Yay!

~Basil


Dear MSSA Friends,

The conference committee report on HB 271 just passed the House by 68-29.

If the Senate concurs with the conference committee report, HB 271
will go to the Governor for his signature.

The House-passed version specifies that a person may carry concealed
inside city limits if the person is eligible to possess a handgun
under state or federal law.

HB 271 will soon come before the Senate for concurrence with the
conference committee report.  I will notify you when that is
scheduled so you may contract your senators.

Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
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MamaLiberty

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 06:25:43 am »

That's great! Are you going to get (or will this be) statewide preemption too? That's the key, I think.
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 10:22:47 am »

We already have statewide preemption.  It seems the city of Helena ignores that... and will need to be challenged.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 11:18:07 am »

We already have statewide preemption.  It seems the city of Helena ignores that... and will need to be challenged.

Really? I must have gotten poor information. I was under the distinct impression that each city/county could and did make up their own gun "laws" as suited them. Glad if that's not so. :)
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 11:32:02 am »

http://www.mtssa.org/mtlaws.phtml?code=45-8-351+M.C.A.

45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
(b) Nothing contained herein shall allow any government to prohibit the legitimate display of firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others, nor shall anything contained herein prohibit the legitimate transportation of firearms through any jurisdiction, whether in airports or otherwise.
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gaurdduck

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 11:34:22 am »

I like MT more all the time...
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 12:59:02 pm »

Note that cities are allowed to restrict CONCEALED carry. But Basil told me that carry in a fanny pack is not considered to be concealed. I guess Montanans are accustomed enough to gun carry methods that fanny pack screams gun just as loudly as a hip holster.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 01:30:24 pm »

Note that cities are allowed to restrict CONCEALED carry. But Basil told me that carry in a fanny pack is not considered to be concealed. I guess Montanans are accustomed enough to gun carry methods that fanny pack screams gun just as loudly as a hip holster.

I thought it screamed "old lady on vacation."  Or maybe that's just what it screams when my mom wears one.
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 01:36:40 pm »

Quote
Note that cities are allowed to restrict CONCEALED carry.

That's not how I read it. "no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun."

I suppose people in the gun culture would notice a fanny pack holster, but I doubt the sheeple would figure it out.  No one has ever commented on mine.
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MamaLiberty

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 01:38:04 pm »

Note that cities are allowed to restrict CONCEALED carry. But Basil told me that carry in a fanny pack is not considered to be concealed. I guess Montanans are accustomed enough to gun carry methods that fanny pack screams gun just as loudly as a hip holster.

That's what I thought.. so there is no universal preemption in Montana after all. ANY restriction on the carry method is unacceptable to me, of course.
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 02:07:44 pm »

Quote
That's what I thought.. so there is no universal preemption in Montana after all. ANY restriction on the carry method is unacceptable to me, of course.

Let me try it again.  It is not written as clearly as one would like, but it does seem to prohibit restrictions on concealed carry.  (Presumably it means legal permitted concealed carry.  That may be about to change.)

 "no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun."
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2011, 03:03:50 pm »

Quote
That's what I thought.. so there is no universal preemption in Montana after all. ANY restriction on the carry method is unacceptable to me, of course.

Let me try it again.  It is not written as clearly as one would like, but it does seem to prohibit restrictions on concealed carry.  (Presumably it means legal permitted concealed carry.  That may be about to change.)

 "no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun."

Right. I missed the last phrase in green when I read it the first time. So what is "unconcealed carrying of... a concealed handgun"? Doesn't make sense to me. And has this changed since I visited you two years ago, or were you explaining to me the reality on the ground, not state law?
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

"Separation of Earth and state!" -- Bill St. Clair

Basil Fishbone

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2011, 03:17:32 pm »

Quote
Right. I missed the last phrase in green when I read it the first time. So what is "unconcealed carrying of... a concealed handgun"? Doesn't make sense to me. And has this changed since I visited you two years ago, or were you explaining to me the reality on the ground, not state law?


It has not changed since we met a couple of years ago. (The legislature only meets for 90 days once every two years.) However, if HB 271 passes, then it changes.  We would then have "Alaska carry".   Fanny packs, purses, briefcases, day packs, etc are considered luggage.  Concealed carry in state law means "covered by an article of clothing", not to include luggage.

 "unconcealed carrying of... a concealed handgun" ... oh, are the laws supposed to make sense?  Maybe it refers to a concealed handgun which is inadvertently showing?  :mellow:
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MamaLiberty

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2011, 03:25:24 pm »

Yeah, I'm always tripping over the idea that all "laws" and rules should at least make some sense. sigh
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Basil Fishbone

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Re: "Permitless carry/ Constitutional carry" Passes the House
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2011, 12:14:51 am »

"...shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun." ...

Really all this phrase is missing is a semicolon. Thus:  ...shotgun, handgun; or concealed handgun.

They needed a good editor.
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