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Author Topic: Your opinions please  (Read 7198 times)

Rarick

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2010, 04:40:01 am »

A lot of stuff on any harddrive can be used to make you a suspect of all sorts of shenanigans.  If not actually criminal-then at least non-PC enough to publicly smear you.......  Heck Mere encryption of the entire disc will convince them you are a criminal with a lot to hide.........  I would definately encrypt my private information, but the other stuff like games and applications can do without the performance hit.
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........Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a darkside and holds the universe together.  It is theoretically reinforced with strings too.  (The dome has a darkside, lightside and strings of rebar for reinforcement too!)
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Most of the time news is about the same old violations of the first principles of consent and golden rule with a dash of force thrown in........ with just enough duct tape to be believable.

Docliberty

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2010, 07:18:37 am »

A lot of stuff on any harddrive can be used to make you a suspect of all sorts of shenanigans.  If not actually criminal-then at least non-PC enough to publicly smear you.......  Heck Mere encryption of the entire disc will convince them you are a criminal with a lot to hide.........  I would definately encrypt my private information, but the other stuff like games and applications can do without the performance hit.

True...but

Should you fall under scrutiny the bad guys would tie up a lot of resources decrypting that drive just to get your cookie recipies.  Wal-Mart found that out when they were fined $7,000 for the death of an associate during Black Friday last year.  They spent $2 million defending it and the story had a quote from the local OSHA office complianing about how much time (about 17% so far) their legal staff had to put in dealing with that fight.  OSHA will thing long and hard before fining Wal-Mart again.
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Doc

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."  Marion Morrison

"I do not fear my government.  I fear what my government will cause me to become."   Docliberty

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

Silver

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2010, 11:41:09 am »

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"If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?"

Some clever answers: "If I'm not doing anything wrong, then you have no cause to watch me." "Because the government gets to define what's wrong, and they keep changing the definition." "Because you might do something wrong with my information." My problem with quips like these -- as right as they are -- is that they accept the premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong. It's not. Privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect.

Two proverbs say it best: Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? ("Who watches the watchers?") and "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Cardinal Richelieu understood the value of surveillance when he famously said, "If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged." Watch someone long enough, and you'll find something to arrest -- or just blackmail -- with. Privacy is important because without it, surveillance information will be abused: to peep, to sell to marketers and to spy on political enemies -- whoever they happen to be at the time.

Privacy protects us from abuses by those in power, even if we're doing nothing wrong at the time of surveillance.

We do nothing wrong when we make love or go to the bathroom. We are not deliberately hiding anything when we seek out private places for reflection or conversation. We keep private journals, sing in the privacy of the shower, and write letters to secret lovers and then burn them. Privacy is a basic human need.
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Too many wrongly characterize the debate as "security versus privacy." The real choice is liberty versus control. Tyranny, whether it arises under threat of foreign physical attack or under constant domestic authoritative scrutiny, is still tyranny. Liberty requires security without intrusion, security plus privacy. Widespread police surveillance is the very definition of a police state. And that's why we should champion privacy even when we have nothing to hide. 

Bruce Schneier, The Eternal Value of Privacy

I encrypt my hard drives for the same reason I have shades on my windows, use envelopes for my letters, and close the door when I use the bathroom.  Not because I'm doing anything wrong, but because some things are no one's business but my own.

Peace,

Silver
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2010, 01:31:05 pm »

I encrypt my hard drives for the same reason I have shades on my windows, use envelopes for my letters, and close the door when I use the bathroom.  Not because I'm doing anything wrong, but because some things are no one's business but my own.

Well, each to his/her own. I assume that there is nothing on my computer that can't be accessed ALREADY by whatever donut faces want to see it - since it all came from, or has already been uploaded to the internet. It isn't about privacy because I do not expect privacy on a computer connected to the internet any more than I expect bathroom type privacy walking down the street - which is why I don't hang curtains around me on the street.

I keep personal information strictly elsewhere.
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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

Leonidas the Younger

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2010, 06:10:58 pm »

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Well, each to his/her own.

Indeed, but your reply makes it clear you don't understand the technology involved at all.

Leonidas
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gaurdduck

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2010, 11:15:14 pm »

Ever since this morning I have my info 3x backed up. No more vital data loss for me. >.<
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2010, 08:36:15 am »

Quote
Well, each to his/her own.

Indeed, but your reply makes it clear you don't understand the technology involved at all.

Leonidas

Interesting unsupported conclusion there. I've been using PGP encryption in various places for about 20 years. I do understand the technology, just choose not to use it in this manner. I also understand infection control and chemistry, but I do not choose to wear a haz-mat suit to wash dishes or scrub the garbage can. You do what you wish.
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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

icbkr

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2010, 09:29:05 am »

FWIW, I've been using Firefox and Thunderbird, in various incarnations, since the start, and I've never once had a problem backing up, migrating, or upgrading across more than 20 computers and between Windows and Linux.  The file locations are simple to find, easy to back up, or restore, or import.  And there are some great security add-ons, aside from the fun custom stuff.

TBS, since you so poignantly pointed out that everything on that PC is already effectively evidence of the state, why not use gmail?  I've been using it for a couple years now for non-secured communication.  It's nice having it available from anyplace in the world, regardless of whether I have a computer with me or not.  It works from my phone, and it ties back to all my non-gmail accounts, and even customizes the signature based on which account I'm "sending" from.

I've still got a local Tbird setup for private communication, but gmail is a heckuva convenience.

icbkr
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Leonidas the Younger

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2010, 10:05:17 pm »

ML,

Quote
Interesting unsupported conclusion there. I've been using PGP encryption in various places for about 20 years. I do understand the technology, just choose not to use it in this manner.

Unsupported? How about obvious to anyone who does understand the technology. You say you're familiar with PGP, but then you also made this claim:

Quote
I assume that there is nothing on my computer that can't be accessed ALREADY by whatever donut faces want to see it - since it all came from, or has already been uploaded to the internet. It isn't about privacy because I do not expect privacy on a computer connected to the internet

So tell me -- how is it the 'donut faces' can trivially break SSH or encrypted VPNs?

Hell, given the correct software and systems you could defeat traffic analysis, so they won't even know how much of your bandwidth you use, how often, or when.

So this is why I said you didn't understand the tech. Because your claim was entirely wrong.

Leonidas
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-- It may soon be time to say: "I plead the second."; are you ready?
-- What have you *DONE* for freedom today?
-- Collectives may exist under individualism, but individuals are not suffered to exist under collectivism.
-- I don't beg anyone for my freedom any more.  It isn't theirs to give me.  It's mine to take and to live. - Lightning.
-- Educated men are as much superior to uneducated men as the living are to the dead. - Aristotle

MamaLiberty

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2010, 07:04:40 am »

So tell me -- how is it the 'donut faces' can trivially break SSH or encrypted VPNs?

Irrelevant. This would be the equivalent of using a very expensive safe to guard my junk mail. Anyone who wishes to read my "stuff" ALREADY has or has easy access to it on line. The only exception I can think of would be the pictures of my grandchildren and my garden. I'll be happy to send those to whomever asks for them.

I'm done with this thread. Thanks.

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Leonidas the Younger

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2010, 07:42:01 am »

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Irrelevant.

It isn't irrelevant when the point shows how completely wrong you were in your reply to Silver.

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This would be the equivalent of using a very expensive safe to guard my junk mail.

SSH is open and free. Do you want me to point you to a dozen places you can download OSes which include it?

Free strong crypto based VPNs also exist, and other free tools also exist to protect online communications from government snoops.

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Anyone who wishes to read my "stuff" ALREADY has or has easy access to it on line.

ONLY if you choose to broadcast in cleartext.

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The only exception I can think of would be the pictures of my grandchildren and my garden. I'll be happy to send those to whomever asks for them.

You have NO original content besides these pictures? No email? No web based chats like this? No list of bookmarks which could be looked over and analyzed as "anti government" ?

Quote
I'm done with this thread. Thanks.

You're done because you have nothing to slip a shred of a rebuttal on.

Leonidas
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-- It may soon be time to say: "I plead the second."; are you ready?
-- What have you *DONE* for freedom today?
-- Collectives may exist under individualism, but individuals are not suffered to exist under collectivism.
-- I don't beg anyone for my freedom any more.  It isn't theirs to give me.  It's mine to take and to live. - Lightning.
-- Educated men are as much superior to uneducated men as the living are to the dead. - Aristotle

securitysix

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2010, 02:39:39 pm »

Methinks you may be missing MamaLiberty's point, Leonidas.  As I understand it, she's saying that the computer she uses to connect to the Internet does not contain any information that she has not already shared with the world or is not perfectly willing to share with the world, up to and including the JBTs, and that anything she does wish to keep out of the hands of the JBTs and/or general public, she does not put on her computer. 
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Silver

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Re: Your opinions please
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2010, 04:23:28 pm »

I think I understand ML's point and I certainly support her right to use such means as she chooses to protect her information.

I suspect where we part ways is in the perception of threat.  ML states that everything on her PC was downloaded from the internet, available to any and all.  I have no reason to doubt her word.  She then concludes that the information won't be of any use to people trying to make problems for her.  That's where we part.

Collections have value and reveal things about the collector's interests.  Put in front of gullible people, these revelations can be spun by clever demagogues to become evidence of intent. 

Things collected today that are free and available to all might suddenly become criminalized.  Sure we have prohibitions against ex post facto laws, but those are enforced every bit as vigorously as the rest of the Bill of Rights, which is to say often not at all.

If I had downloaded the all the information on the Wikileaks site to a machine I controlled, does anyone here doubt that there are people who would use that as evidence of criminal intent?  That these same people might be able to find 12 others who bought that story?  The information is free, and available to all, but that doesn't mean there are zero risks with keeping it on your machine.

What if that same machine contained a copy of anti-American essays written by aggrieved people?  What if, heaven forbid, it had a copy of the The Anarchist's Cookbook?  What if there was some laboratory glassware in the same house?

Owning any of these things is not a crime, but owning that particular collection could result in no end of problems.  There are people in prison today convicted with less evidence.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.  I'll encrypt my drives not because I'm doing anything wrong, but because I'm absolutely certain a whole industry of evil infests this land, and I don't trust them with anything.

I truly didn't intend to hijack this thread with my casual comment that everyone should use Truecrypt. My apologies.  Like ML, I'll sign off this one now.

Peace,

Silver

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