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Author Topic: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment  (Read 3414 times)

MamaLiberty

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Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« on: February 25, 2010, 10:05:48 am »
You all HAVE read The Ballad of Carl Drega, I presume...

Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment  http://tinyurl.com/y94avmw
Disloyal Opposition
by JD Tuccille

“Last week, admonishing his colleagues, who had just turned away an important search-and-seizure case, Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, of the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, effectively pronounced the Fourth Amendment dead. After the court signed off on police search of an apartment without a warrant, probable cause or reasonable suspicion, Kozinski said, ‘Whatever may have been left of the Fourth Amendment … is now gone.’ In the case of United States v. Lemus, police peacefully arrested Juan Hernan Lemus of Calexico, California, outside his home ‘before he could fully enter the doorway and retreat into his living room.’ With Lemus in custody, and without a search warrant for the apartment, police then entered the dwelling for a look around.” (02/24/10)

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The lust to control the lives and property of others is the root of all evil.

Bill St. Clair

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 12:58:01 pm »
How many Carl Dregas does it take to change a tyranny?
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"The state can only survive as long as a majority is programmed to believe that theft isn't wrong if it's called taxation or asset forfeiture or eminent domain, that assault and kidnapping isn't wrong if it's called arrest, that mass murder isn't wrong if it's called war." -- Bill St. Clair

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Lenny

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 01:45:06 pm »
The fourth Amendment died when "probable cause" searches were invented. The constitution says the order is: (1) probable cause; (2) oath or affirmation; (3) warrant; (4) search or seizure. Today the order supposedly is: (1) probable cause; (2) search or seizure; (3) oath or affirmation, in an affidavit of PC; (4) "warrant," meaning a retroactive judicial blessing.

If you accept searches on probable cause, and if you believe their report that the arrestee had partly entered the living room, then they were within bounds: they glanced around the living room looking for accomplices or other dangers, and they noticed the butt of a pistol sticking out in plain view. We all know the report is a lie, of course. He was probably arrested outside on the lawn, and there wasn't any gun in plain view--they tossed the place. But if you believe their perjured testimony, then they were correctly executing a "cursory safety check" that was "incident to the arrest."

Now it does bother me that they're most likely lying. But the real problem is the entire concept of "probable cause." If you really have probable cause, then go get a warrant. Maybe it does "make the cops' job harder," but that's just too bad. The rights of the innocent are paramount. (OK, even that's too authoritarian for me. I don't actually believe anyone should have the power to issue a "warrant" to invade my private property. But I'm just talking about the Constitution here.)
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MamaLiberty

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 02:04:09 pm »
Quote from: Bill St. Clair on February 25, 2010, 12:58:01 pm
How many Carl Dregas does it take to change a tyranny?

I suspect we may find out soon...
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RagnarDanneskjold

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 03:20:55 pm »
Quote from: Bill St. Clair on February 25, 2010, 12:58:01 pm
How many Carl Dregas does it take to change a tyranny?

fsckin' BRILLIANT Bill.
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 03:24:54 pm »
Quote
How many Carl Dregas does it take to change a tyranny?

Not nearly as many Micheal Collins as it would Carl Drega's

One worked from the bottom up, and the other from the top down.............but the fact is.............both are dead now
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

MamaLiberty

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 05:42:10 pm »
Quote from: Grim_watcher on February 25, 2010, 05:33:47 pm
I wonder.... if living in rural america, paying your taxes, and not being a lib or "progressive" would be probable cause enough for them to enter any dwelling outside of city limits?  Maybe all it takes is posting here to give them probable cause.

"Cause?" Maybe in their sick little minds. Does it get them in the door? Probably not all in one piece very often.
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iloilo

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 06:45:29 pm »
ML, you just say the most wonderful things!
You are such a dear!
Warms my heart, it does, to read your words.
ff
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Gypsy

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 06:59:26 pm »
Looks like all of us can expect a knock (with a foot) at the front door ant time now. Like the old saying go's " Locked Cocked and Ready to Rock".
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EwB

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2010, 11:37:19 am »
Time will be that having, pursuing, requesting, or sharing (otherwise known as teaching) certain types of knowledge, will be in themselves, enough for the destroyers to have "probable cause" to invade your home, question your mind, take your liberty.

With enough "law" (that crap they create in DC)   anything can be illegal. 

I think it may be too late already.

EwB
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2010, 02:35:51 pm »
Quote
(that crap they create in DC)

how bout the crap the town council creates in city hall?
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.

Vydunas

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2010, 02:46:22 pm »
Quote from: Bill St. Clair on February 25, 2010, 12:58:01 pm
How many Carl Dregas does it take to change a tyranny?
Only one, but the tyranny has to want to change.
Are we talking light bulbs here, or...Depends....
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EwB

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2010, 03:24:02 pm »
Quote from: ZooT_aLLures on February 26, 2010, 02:35:51 pm
Quote
(that crap they create in DC)

how bout the crap the town council creates in city hall?

Zoot, good point.  I was getting too specific regarding the source of manure that makes so much of life stink.

EwB
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ZooT_aLLures

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Re: Judge reads elegy for the Fourth Amendment
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2010, 03:56:24 pm »
Yeah..............we live under a multilayered fabric of tyranny..............each using tha layers above it to force compliance at gunpoint, and each bemoaning the very layers that it uses to force compliance as tyrannical.............
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Even some cowboy and indian outlaws in the 1800's eventually stopped sleeping under buffalo skins, and came to town to entertain paying customers. For some I imagine the bruising of their ego never healed.

We all have some scar tissue that never lets us completely forget the intent of the adventure.
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