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Author Topic: Conspiracy theories VS Reality  (Read 21811 times)

usmc2541wife

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Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« on: August 08, 2009, 12:19:12 pm »

Would you guys be willing to help sort out the differences?
IOW.....post a new Conspiracy theory that is potentially dangerous to our sanity VS what is really happening?

For example, have "they" already started these "camps"? So many people are saying they have!

If possible.......please don't just keep the topic on "camps" but bring in other theories. I have heard several.
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Linda

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Bear

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 12:44:44 pm »

usmc2541wife,

Here's the problem with trying to get sort out fact from fiction: any thing that's built or organized
can be re-used for some other purpose than for what it was originally intended. Let me take the
'FEMA camps' story as an example.

Haliburton received some money from a no-bid contract to be ready to build detention camps
on short notice. This we know for a fact.

It's rumored that Haliburton did some 'tests' as a sanity check for their plans, and these are most
likely poles-and-fencing structures seen in some odd places.

Ok, so why was this deal done in the first place?

There were some predictions that there could be a flood of illegal Mexicans coming over the
border, and DHS/INS wanted a place to park them while they sorted things out. At the time,
that seemed hard to believe, and even more so as our economy started to tank and many
Mexicans have gone home.

However, there are some facts coming to light now that our government probably predicted,
and makes the whole thing believable.

Mexico's oil is running out. Their oil exports, which fund their welfare and public works projects,
is slowing to a trickle, and it's now predicted that they will be a net oil Importer within 10 years.
If they can't sell oil, they can't pay for welfare and other subsidies. Many Mexicans may figure that
it's better then to be poor in the US than poor in Mexico. THAT could lead to the flood of illegals
that the camps are intended to house.

Just for the sake of argument - let's assume that this has all been above board, and the camps are
exactly what they are claimed to be. But a detention camp is a detention camp, and once they are
built they could be used for any purpose.

House political dissidents? Sure, why not.

House pandemic victims? Sure, why not that too (and it would explain the gas works seen at one
at one 'camp'. Need to have crematories if people die off to rapidly to bury.)

The thing is, the government is not a monolithic block of people who are all on the same page with
the same agenda. There is no way to predict what will happen, and dwelling too much on
what could happen can waste a lot of your time.

So it's back to basics: make preps to provide for you and yours in the circumstances that are most
likely to happen where you live.

Bear

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canadian

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 12:15:46 am »

The first thing you need to remember is that a conspiracy theory is only a theory until it's proven. Then it's just a plain old conspiracy.
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SoupMonkey

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2009, 08:49:12 pm »

I first started hearing about FEMA camps back in the early 80s. Reagen was elected
and we were all going to die in a nuclear hell. At least those of us not living in FEMA camps.
Not really sure how that turned out. At least I don't remember shaking an AK-47 at someone
and screaming "Wolverines!"
Reality Check: Paranoia is not a mental disease, its a fact of life.
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usmc2541wife

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2009, 09:06:30 pm »

Thanks, Bear! I have heard a variety of explantations and saw some video's, but yours makes more sense.
SO, the camps are there.........and it's just a matter of how they will use them. I don't think it's a matter of IF.......it's a matter of how and for what purpose they will use them. But, they will be used the way things are going. :rolleyes:

NEXT CONSPIRACY THEORY!!
GW BUSH KNEW ABOUT 9/11!! :laugh:

Oxi??
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Linda

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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2009, 09:08:59 pm »

Thanks, Bear! I have heard a variety of explantations and saw some video's, but yours makes more sense.
SO, the camps are there.........and it's just a matter of how they will use them. I don't think it's a matter of IF.......it's a matter of how and for what purpose they will use them. But, they will be used the way things are going. :rolleyes:

NEXT CONSPIRACY THEORY!!
GW BUSH KNEW ABOUT 9/11!! :laugh:

Oxi??

ROFL.  We have a whole sub-forum dedicated to it, lol.
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usmc2541wife

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2009, 09:13:06 pm »

Oh boy...........I guess I don't want to go there. :huh:
Or do I?
Hmmm.....makes me headachey thinking of trying to defend my position. Believe me, many people at my forum believe this to be true. I just do NOT see it as REAL!
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Linda

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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 09:19:18 pm »

Oh boy...........I guess I don't want to go there. :huh:
Or do I?
Hmmm.....makes me headachey thinking of trying to defend my position. Believe me, many people at my forum believe this to be true. I just do NOT see it as REAL!

My advice would be this...  Before you try to defend your position, give some of the oposing positions an honest look.  You might be surprised.  FWIW, after about six years of dismissing anything other than the official story, mostly because it was too horrifying to consider any other, it was this presentation that made me doubt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b74naeawdCs&feature=PlayList&p=4DA7A9264FD5CF85&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

usmc2541wife

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 10:01:20 pm »

Klapton,
I just took some time to view about 4 parts of this......not in succession........Part I.......and them jumped to some further up, and then Part 13.
One thing I noted was that most of the stuff mentioned was done in 2007.
So, then I went to the website AE911.org.
I couldn't find, when I searched, anything NEW that they are doing.

Looking at some of the percentages of people wanting a new investigation......the percent was 51%. Hmm...........those must be 99% of the 52% that voted for Obama!
Yes, there has always been the Rosie O'Donnell, Bill Maher theory of explosives in the building, so 16% of the people feel there was something else inside the building.
Having taught Science, I can see what they are saying regarding the color of the "aluminum" flowing out. It should be silver! That's true.
SO, I have been open to theories that perhaps there was more of an INSIDE job than just the planes. Although, let us not forget the jet fuel on a fully fueled plane from LaGuardia to the Twin Towers!! LOTS!
Also, within 21 days, things were still burning.
Of course!
I saw it! I was right there within those 21 days and saw the devastation! I stood near the barricades and smelled the smell and saw the smoldering ruins.

Regardless, going back to a government involvement. Even this architect does not say it was the gov. My feeling is, the GOV was not inside......but there most likely were more terrorists who most likely worked in the towers.........who possibly set it up! So, that when the planes hit.......it was even worse!

We also, never were attacked after this! Geez.....why not? Bush was prez....he coulda done MORE, right?
We do need to know more, yes.......but I will BET GW had no knowledge!
Hmmmm.....maybe his dad did?
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Linda

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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2009, 10:28:56 pm »

You can bet his little brother Marvin, who was head of the company in charge of security at WTC before 9-11 knows something.  Whether he let people with explosives in there because he's evil or because he's a bungling idiot like his brother would be the next question.

All that the ae911truth guys are saying is that the official reports are BS, and that a new, independent investigation should be made.  (One NOT headed by Bush admin insiders like the previous investigations.)  They don't go beyond just pointing out the scientific and architectural evidence that points to controlled demolition.  Who or why they leave to others.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

Bear

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2009, 11:01:21 pm »


My doubts about 9/11 hinge on the issue of the third building collapse (#7 or #5?). If this building
was blown down, then it means there was foreknowledge that an attack was going to happen. There
couldn't be any other explanation, as it takes time to set charges to demolish a building.

The minimum involvement of our government then was knowing it would happen, an deciding to
not stop it so that they could take advantage of the disaster. Whether they planned it or just let it
happen, it is equally evil in my book. So it really comes down to whether the stories about the third
building be blown down are are true or not.

Bear
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mouse

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 04:17:06 am »

Government involvement in 9.11?  Probably not.  Though I always thought that you cannot rule that out entirely.

Shortly after "9.11 doubt" started to surface in America and there was a surge of videos and articles on 9.11 inconsistencies and questions,  I was watching one video (I think it might have been "loose change", I'm not sure).  At the end there was a random, nameless, old woman shouting in the street about 9.11.  She said, something along the lines of, "if you think anyone could have pulled off all this without government being involved, you're crazy".  I had to admit that that was very true.

I never was much of a "conspiracy theory" person, until I started to read about things like "Ruby Ridge" and "Waco" (though admittedly they weren't "conspiracy theories" as most of the fact with regard to these two things have never been disputed).

I always thought there was "something very fishy" about the JFK assassination, but I never formulated any opinions.  I am just absolutely convinced (now after reading about it) that there was far more to it than the mainstream media told us.

As for 9.11, I believed the official story for all of about an hour until I got to work (I worked at the time in a shop selling and repairing computers and TVs so I was surrounded by different images of the towers collapsing, all day) and someone pointed out to me that the official story was utterly fantastic and denied the basic laws of physics.  Then that day the mainstream media (I didn't even know at that time that there was any other media) was hammering the stock exchange angle and what a "coincidence" it was, the millions made on put options etc.

That was enough to sow the seed of doubt and the more I looked into it, the more ludicrous the official story was proven to be.  Then I read about Mohammed Atta's amazing fireproof passport and that the "aeroplane" that hit the pentagon "disappeared into a whole far smaller than it should have" (again a physical impossibility), I pondered the collapse of bldg 7 in exactly the same manner as 1 and 2 and saw that it was never even claimed that it was hit by a plane and I saw footage of people like first responders talking of "explosions" and what totally clinched it was reading about the massive amount of moulten steel and realising that it would be impossible to convince even a backward three year old that fire (from jet fuel) could melt steel.

It may have been that other government members were involved, I don't know.  But I'm sticking with my theory that Bush didn't know any details, but was just told "something big is going to happen on the 11th, so just shut up and do exactly as you're told to do and look suitably shocked".  This is because his demeanour on the day when he was visiting the school in Florida (in my opinion) told us that.  I also remember seeing a picture on the cover of a magazine (might have been time) a few months after 9.11.  It depicted a close up of GW Bush in a helicopter hovering over NYC and as he saw the devastation a tear rolled down his face.  Pretty hard to fake that reaction.  I think he was expecting something, but not something as devastating as that.  Maybe it was never meant to be that bad, but went terribly wrong.  Maybe it was meant to be worse.  Who knows.

As for theories of who was behind 9.11.  I really have absolutely no idea, I don't know enough about American politics,  the government certainly gained a lot out of it, but then so did a lot of others too, Larry Silverstein and not only the money he made from the insurance, but the money he saved by not having to have the buildings made free of absestos, the beneficiary of the missing trillions and the missing gold, and the beneficiaries of the destruction of the files involving cases against corporations for corruption etc. (Enron was one, but I can't recall others right now).

Then there are other "conspiracy theories" that I have a hard and fast opinion on.  For instance I will never believe that the death of Vince Foster was anything other than murder, after reading the facts (just the basic facts like the position the corpse was in etc.) made that obvious in my opinion.  Maybe "Vince Foster" is not a conspiracy theory either because there is so much evidence to point to "suspicion".

I must have got really cynical in my old age because a little while ago when I came across an article about the news story of the "suicide" of Dr Ivins the "anthrax suspect", I immediately started looking for evidence that it wasn't a suicide, mainly because the "anthrax thing" was - I had assumed - so transparently "inside job" and as far as I was concerned the theory that anthrax was sent to people by "unknown terrorists outside the USA" was widely discredited - well I thought so anyway.  To me Ivins genuinely committing suicide was out of the question, I didn't even consider that it was true.  Just after I read about it, I went to a Christian discussion forum that I frequent and someone had posted a news story on Dr Ivins' "suicide" and I was surprised to see that a couple of people had taken what the news story said to be fact beyond a doubt and said things like "well thank goodness, doing an awful thing like sending anthrax through the mail".  I was horrified because I assumed that everybody had "smelled a rat" just as I did and replied saying "... the elephant in the room .... " and the response I got (pretty quickly considering that it was the early hours of the morning in America) was almost hostile.  I realised that that wasn't the forum to discuss things like that, and dropped it.

I have always believed that "7.7 - or the London Bombings" in 2005, was a UK government job.  I have never wavered on that opinion and base it on correspondence via email I was having at the time with an old friend who has lived in London for 20 years.

Separating fact from fiction is a problem with "conspiracy theories" as there is so much information on (say) 9.11 and it all cannot be true.

My solution is that I believe the things that seem most logical to me, things that "add up".

Check out "operation Northwoods" if you have trouble believing that any government could be that sneaky.  (This (ON) started a theory that plans for 9.11 had been round for some time and had been submitted to every incoming president since WWII and Bush was the only one dumb enough to say "sure boys, that's a great plan, go ahead".  Well it's an idea anyway.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 05:34:13 am by mouse »
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Contrarian

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2009, 05:30:11 am »

I have proof that at least one conspiracy theory is true;
The Congressional Act of 1871. (incorporation of the "United States of America" within the confines of D.C., among other things)

I could include the Lieber Code of 1863, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 (look into the brothers Warburg), the declaration of bankruptcy of the united States of America, Geneva, Switzerland in 1933, the adoption and gradual implementation of the UCC in 1938, the National Security Act of 1947...

People, there is too much to list. It can (and has) been ignored by many generations, ours being merely the latest.

Nothing the "Government" has done should be considered a "mistake" as all governments do as they please, and the outcomes are planned far in advance.
There are no coincidences, only the illusion of such.
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Klapton Isgod

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2009, 08:15:41 am »

Nothing the "Government" has done should be considered a "mistake" as all governments do as they please, and the outcomes are planned far in advance.
There are no coincidences, only the illusion of such.

The problem with this view is that we see tons of evidence of government actions that clearly have "unintended consequences."  In other words, the Evil Mastermind model contradicts the "couldn't take a shit without screwing it up" model of government.  And to be honest, I'm not sure which to believe, because they both have the ring of truth to them.  Most likely it's more complex than that, with elements of both.  Because one cannot deny that LOTS of things the government does are just plain STUPID ...  way too stupid to be the work of evil geniuses.
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"I got things under control, that's why people call me an extremist.  I'm autonomous.  I understand that I declare my independence every day."  Ted Nugent

"It is the conservative laissez- fairist, the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, 'Limit yourself'; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian."  Murray Rothbard

usmc2541wife

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Re: Conspiracy theories VS Reality
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2009, 09:38:03 am »

JFK..........I do believe there was a plan by government in this. After watching a series of video's and reading articles, it seems highly possible. They even tie the Bush family in on that one too as well as LBJ.

Going back to 9/11.......Klapton, I never knew Marvin Bush had these security ties. I went to bed last night thinking about that. Hmmmm.....
But, I have to agree with mouse that GW's reaction at the school and the tear was authentic.
After this discussion last night, I started watching video's of the Booker Elementary School. I STILL believe that the president did what he ahd to do......remain calm. One crazy article said that he asked for a burger right afterward. Even if you believe he knew, do you actually believe he would ask to EAT?
I have to admit in my search last night too.....I ws surprised that Bush said he saw the first plane hit on tv. There was no way he saw it as this event did not show in the media until they had citizen video's .........so why he would say that is confusing to me.

Say all these conspiracy theories are true, like the 9/11 and Bush.
What is the purpose of the involvement of the gov? Money? Fame? Power? Perhaps it's naivete on my part, but I am looking for the WHY right now. What purpose would these things serve? Why?
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Linda

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