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Author Topic: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS  (Read 19120 times)

Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2009, 12:38:21 am »

And if we don't get the guilty they're free to do it again and again. I wonder how long before it's a crime to question 9/11, like the Holohoax.

Please tell me that "Holohoax" doesn't mean what I think it's supposed to mean.

Yeah, what Klapton said.

Salute!
Elias
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Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2009, 01:34:28 am »

And it wasn't muslims who killed Daniel Perl, Nick Berg, and Theo Van Gogh. No, it was the Irish Catholics. :rolleyes:

(Know you were just making light humor, but have used your comment as a springboard. Apologies! )

Uhm, well, perhaps they were killed by the CIA?

I think that is as reasonable an assumption as any. And speaking of assumptions, all anyone here knows is what we've gleaned from one form of media or another - in other words, we're all basing our opinions on something we've been "told" by some source, be it the "news" or the "press" or the entertainment media or the Internet. So ultimately, not one of us really knows what happened "over there". But I'm sure that most of us have strong opinions anyway, yes? I certainly do, because I've not only got the Internet with which to afford myself "alternate" perspectives on what's going around the media merry-go-round, I've also got memories of our torture of Vietnamese in I-Corps area in Vietnam in the 1960s. Yeah, U.S. Marines tortured Vietnamese very close to my camp, and at night I could hear the screams. Anyone here is welcome to try to erase those memories from my mind, but it will be very difficult to convince me that I did not witness that when I was there. War cries in its own language.

I will try to explain.

I'm an old guy, and I'm cynical about a lot of things. I know what goes down in war zones, which is just one of many reasons why I'm totally opposed to war. For those who have not been in war, and who rely upon mainstream sources for their "news", I'd like to leave off on this thread an interjection regarding black operations, psychological operations, "Unconventional Warfare" operations, and false-flag operations. I won't go into details here, but I assume that every reader here does at least agree that the U.S. Intelligence community does indeed conduct covert operations, psy-ops, black-ops, special-ops, UW-ops, and mass mind control operations which include the use of the American media and press.

There is a reason why our "Defense" establishment and the Intelligence community do these illegal, immoral, deadly "operations". And there is a reason why the American people allow this to continue to happen with the sanctions of our now-stolen U.S. Federal government. That reason has to do with the effectiveness of massive psy-ops and Unconventional Warfare operations as conducted by government proclamation and the mass media.

Many here will be surprised to ponder several questions about the "al Qaeda" tapes and the Nick Berg tapes which have been pandered about in the "news". What only a few know about can be found fairly easily by clicking this linky....

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/02-16-05/discussion.cgi.14.html

Specifically from that link, there is this - http://www.apfn.org/NickBerg/prison.htm

The following link has pdf link to contractor which furnished U.S. military with the infamous "white chair".

http://www.apfn.org/NickBerg/chair.htm

Let me put this very bluntly. We have no way on earth to prove that the CIA did not cause the beheading of Nick Berg. And we do have good reason to ask the question. (I do not ask that you believe that, but I thank you for being willing to read my view on it.) If the CIA would kill JFK, I doubt a lesser figure would slow CIA down for a second - I think they'll kill as needed, and history shows that they do.

I am not saying that "The" CIA is of that nature, and I'm certainly not saying that most employees of CIA are involved in this sort of thing. I think there are a lot of loyal Americans working at CIA. But I think there are some truly evil men in key places at Langley - in the clandestine areas of Langley. I am saying that CIA contains compartmentalized operations about which the bulk of CIA personnel would never know, and those "special ops" boys are the ones who create terrorism, pull all the dirty tricks, assassinate foreign leaders, politicize Wall Street, launder the underworld's illegal finance, institute regime changes, lever the world's trade lanes by abusing the mission of the U.S. military overseas, and carry forward in many ways the agenda of the one-world government.

The Intelligence community in every developed nation-state "provides services", in Webster Tarpley's words, for the global leaders, such as the United Nations, the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, etc. etc. Those leaders use such created world events to lever public perception, using a CFR-controlled mass media, entertainment sector, and press (and wishes dearly at this time to get some control over Talk-Radio), and their governance umbrella is the national debts of the nations which their banks control. Yup. It could be another "follow the money" admonition, coming at us in a different context - this is a whole lot bigger than Watergate. The forces which govern this nation's monetary system will sacrifice a few thousand innocents in a heart-beat, for to the few who control those forces the world is seen abstractly, in terms of very large numbers, of interfaced scientific advances such as the Genome Race, HAARP, Codex Aliamentary, or the DHHS plan to implant under their skin a microchip in each "homeless person". People who project and plan such uses for high-science should never be trusted with centralized power, yet that is their stated goal. I'll give you one brief example:

Here in his own words is the man who founded the Trilateral Commission for David Rockefeller in 1973, and the man who is presently one of President Obama's advisers, the Bilderberg, CFR, and Trilateralist author of The Grand Chessboard, (1) which became the marching orders for the Bush-43 Administration's neo-con movement, (the now defunct PNAC), Mr. Zbigniew Brzezinski -

"Marxism represents a further vital and creative stage in the maturing of man's universal vision. Marxism is simultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man and a victory of reason over belief... "

That was published by Brzezinski in 1970, three years before he was picked by Rockefeller to found the Trilateral Commission. The book is titled Between Two Ages: America's Role In The Technetronic Era (2) This brilliant idiot thinks that a Marxist/Globalist one-world government is the way to go. And he's sitting down with the President of the United States to give the President an earful on such matters as these three other quotes indicate - (remember, this book was published in 1970) -

  "The nation-state is gradually yielding its sovereignty. ... In the economic-technological field, some international cooperation has already been achieved, but further progress will require greater American sacrifices. More intensive efforts to shape a new world monetary structure will have to be undertaken, with some consequent risk to the present relatively favorable American position."
  "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."
  "Today we are again witnessing the emergence of transnational elites...[whose] ties cut across national boundaries... It is likely that before long the social elites of most of the more advanced countries will be highly internationalist or globalist in spirit and outlook.... "


Okay, enough for that example. These power-brokers think like that. They juggle abstracts while planning and plotting the fate of this world, and they've got the debt of 184 nation-states which comprise the membership roster at the United Nations. So how is that connected to my point? Easy -

The apex of financial power manifests in a tier of elite international banks and banking institutions. You've got the BIS, the IMF/World Bank, the Bank of England, and the Federal Reserve System, Inc. in this nation. Below that strata thrives a wealth of lesser players, Bear Stearns, Citibank, Morgan-Chase, Warburg, etc. They finance the liaison between the Defense Department and Wall Street, and they tighten up or loosen up as directed by the superior internationalists money-masters.

By owning each nation's debt, the central bank of each nation answers to directives coming from the central banks' central bank, the Bank for International Settlements in Switzerland. The BIS advises the IMF, and at present time the Fed is in bed with the IMF. My point - this sort of world-governing economic power is a stated goal of a small elite who has published for more than a hundred years their intent to do just this. And by their own publications they've revealed something yet more diabolical than the takeover of the world's monetary system, consolidating it into a center of focused power, which stands now at the disposal of a forming one-world government. A recently "leaked" U.S. Army document lays it all out - the how and the why our special ops boys do "black ops" or "Unconventional Warfare Operations". And that document discusses the use of "surrogates" in their psy-ops. Worse yet, the document describes what kinds of surrogates the U.S. may use for purposes of establishing psy-op-engendered mass-mind perceptions in the media - some of those "surrogates" include:
1) Organized crime
2) Human traffickers
3) Smugglers (there's your CIA complicity in drug dealing, about which we've known for years, decades.)
4) Terrorists / terrorist cells

You read that right. Our government has admitted in this 248-page pdf document that Unconventional Warfare employs "terrorists" as surrogates for the execution of psy-ops carried out clandestinely by "USARF" (Army's name for Unconventional Warfare special forces).  This is the crux of state-sponsored "pretexts", and the psychology behind Defense and DHS "planning" nowadays - but it traces back as far as 1962, as we learned recently when the Northwoods Document was released under FOIA suit by James Bamford. That document, signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, clearly suggested that special forces create a wave of terrorism in Miami, Florida, and blame it on Cuba, as a "pretext" which would cause American voters to support an invasion of Cuba. That was the Pentagon's consciousness in 1962. Read about it here -

http://www.jeffersonrivercoalition.com/northwoodsdocument.htm

But perhaps just one little teaser from that document -

A “Remember the Maine” incident could be arranged in several forms:
We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to “evacuate” remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.

We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.


That, I'll say again, is the Joint Chiefs of Staff brainstorming for "pretexts" which would cause the American people to support an invasion of Cuba, which the military wanted, and which some Wall Street "interests" wanted, but which the American people, in 1962, would not support. The heads of the Pentagon themselves were discussing committing acts of terror in Miami and Washington. They recommended this to then-Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara. In 1962. That is very remarkable. And that is one precedent for my theory as laid out here so skimpily.  Do consider reading that whole link, if you've not read it already.

This level of power, this power to execute Unconventional Warfare which is held close to the breast of the New World Order, is actuated by super-secretive compartments inside NSC, NSA, NRO, DIA, State Department Intel, and CIA, among others, such as DARPA.  At that level of power, the world leadership thinks it's dealing with more than six billion humans on Planet Earth and if they are forced to eliminate a few thousand here, or a few million there (Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, et al), so be it.  The hidden powers of finance snap their fingers and the Intelligence communities ask how far to jump. It's what they're paid to do. What you and I see in the wake of such operations is another "terrorist attack", or a "be-heading", or any sort of an endless parade of designed-for-public-consumption events which alter the flow and direction of legislation, affect monetary policy, shift public attention into a matrix of created conflicts, and the steady march toward assimilation into a one-world government.

If we believe their official cover stories, we deserve what we get. And in looking back at the twentieth century, I can show you an impressive list of false-flag events and state-sponsored terrorist events, and every one of them is related to the afterbirth of Cecil Rhodes' infamous Round Table groups, from which all the elite pillars I've named above, from the Bilderberg Group to the Federal Reserve, have arrived. In their own writings they have said they may have to use "violence" to accomplish their ends. But their greatest spokesperson perhaps has summed it up best. This, from Professor Carroll Quigley in his 1,300-page tome, Tragedy And Hope (3) -

"[....] The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalistic fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks, which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank, in the hands of men like Montagu Norman of the Bank of England, Benjamin Strong of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, Charles Rist of the Bank of France, and Hjalmar Schacht of the Reichsbank, sought to dominate its government by its ability to control treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence co-operative politicians by subsequent rewards in the business world."  ~ Professor Carroll Quigley 1966.

Look at Washington, D.C. today. Look at Wall Street today. Look at this country today. See the American middle class under siege. Know that this is by some evil people's design, that it did not "just happen". This current situation has been manipulated, and the War on Terror has been the tool of choice with which to exercise the manipulation. To force you and me to take this, to force us to swallow it, the War on Terror has now announced its focus on the good people of America. That announcement came in February and April of this year at the writ and wit of Janet Napolitano, head of the Department of Homeland Security, which uses for its Bible the Kean 9/11 Commission Report.

That's where we're at. So perhaps we should not rush to believe everything the media is shoving down our throats regarding this War on Terror. It is a farce, a massive myth, an even bigger fraud than the IRS, an even more insidious lie than Pearl Harbor. I suggest we question every damn thing this government says, and question it thoroughly. Our future depends on every one of us coming to an understanding of how power presents itself in the "proper and progressive" way. Unconventional Warfare techniques are the MO. I'll leave you with a rather shocking article about that Army document I mentioned above. Link to that document for downloading yourself is in this article, which itself is but a brief summation - do consider opening that pdf link from this file and, if nothing more, simply read down the list of section titles. Just that much ought to rock your boat....

http://www.jeffersonrivercoalition.com/US_Army_Unconventional_Warfare.htm

They brainwash themselves feverishly, embedding their faith that they have to win at all costs, by any means necessary. They believe sincerely that the ends justify the means, and that if we're to use the forces of darkness correctly, victoriously, we'll use them as surrogates in our secret operations. Certain units inside the FBI and CIA actually farm, as in "cultivate", surrogates to have on hand when needed. Such operatives work through subordinate "handlers". This, under their warped sense of how to best use the art of surveillance.

The men who do these things think that way. They do what they're told and keep quiet about it. They are fools, but the American people are yet greater fools for allowing it to go unquestioned. Their idiocy shall put this nation into an iron-clad police state under military rule in the hands of globalists who want our Constitution, Bill of Rights, military, economy/monetary system, our three Federal Branches, all that and more, sufficiently destroyed to the point that the American people will beg for the New World Order to feed themselves at any cost.

 Facing this out-of-control  mechanism bravely now, and spreading the consciousness, seems to me to be the thing to do at present time. That, and to strengthen one's survival capabilities....

Salute!
Elias


1) The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives
by Zbigniew Brzezinski; copyright 1997 by Zbigniew K. Brzezinski; published by Basic Books, a division of Perseus Books Group; ISBN: (cloth: 0-465-02725-3) (paper: 0-465-02726-1).
2) Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era
by Zbigniew Brzezinski; copyright 1970 by Zbigniew Brzezinski; published 1970 by The Viking Press, Inc., 625 Madison Avenue, New York, New York 10022; (I)SBN: 670-16041-5.
3) Tragedy And Hope: A History Of The World In Our Time
by Carroll Quigley; copyright 1966 by Carroll Quigley; first published by Macmillan, New York; current publisher: GSG and Associates, Post Office Box 590, San Pedro, California, 90733; phone – 310-548-3455; Library of Congress catalog card member: 65-13589.

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freewoman

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2009, 07:33:21 am »

Quote
But I think there are some truly evil men in key places at Langley - in the clandestine areas of Langley.

I believe it behooves us to recall that these individuals are not elected; many have been in government employment for many years; they receive a lot of benefits and perks for working for government; and they stand to receive hefty pensions and health benefits when they retire (generally at relatively young ages).  Not to mention the fact that some folks actually like working for the secret powers that manipulate the world's governments.  Those who have the ability to pull the strings necessary to arrange for Nick Berg's murder had plenty of motivation, from their viewpoint, to do so.


Quote
They brainwash themselves feverishly, embedding their faith that they have to win at all costs, by any means necessary.

That's when it becomes very scary for those of us who are considered "below" the elite.  The elite has bought into the lie that they are superior to us because of their "superhuman" DNA.  Therefore, anyone who doesn't carry that DNA, or who does not fit into their schemes, is expendable; in fact, those in power see the masses as a very real threat to their own survival.  So knocking off a few thousand on 9/11, or a few businessmen and newsmen afterward, is not a big deal, especially when (in their view) the "greater good" is being served.

Quote
Facing this out-of-control  mechanism bravely now, and spreading the consciousness, seems to me to be the thing to do at present time. That, and to strengthen one's survival capabilities....

Yup.  Thanks, Elias, for giving us a place to do both of those things!
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Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2009, 02:23:21 pm »

Thanks, freewoman,
But I can't accept thanks for much of anything here. I do very little for this place. The real work is done by our administrators and by our tech-guy, Bill St. Clair, without whom this place could not exist.

And I'll also note that the real strength of this place, the reason it endures, is directly related to the wonderful people who share their ideas, experiences, insights, perspectives, historic materials, analysis, and general free-speaking exchanges regularly here. My salute goes out to all members here, with deep appreciation.

So I'll join you in thanking the Admins and the post-makers here; and I'll add also that the place would not be here were it not for the popularity of Claire Wolfe's amazing volume of liberty writings. We can all thank Claire for inspiring the idea behind this place, and for packing it initially with her many readers. It was Claire who's spirit made this place work in the first place, and I'm eternally grateful to her.

And btw, freewoman, thank you for being here and for all the good contributions you post here. I appreciate your being here.

Salute!
Elias
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OOSpool

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2009, 05:17:57 pm »

Thank you Elias!  I couldn't say it any better so I won't try :)  I'll try to offer some add-ons and some youtube stuff for the folks who don't read much.  I strongly suggest a thorough read of Zbig's books- in particular, "The Grand Chessboard." Quigley's "Tragedy And Hope"  and "The Anglo-American Establishment" are, in my opinion, essential reading as well.

A few quotes from "The Grand Chessboard":

Quote
How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources."

Quote
“The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)

"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)

Quote
"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)

I would also strongly encourage reading this little article from November 2001:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP111B.html

If I can dig it out, there is a great lecture given by Michel Chossudovsky in 2003.  I do not believe that things are any different with a "new administration." 

Oh, here it is:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3117338213439292490
War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11
Quote
In this lecture by Michel Chossudovsky, he blows away the smokescreen put up by the mainstream media, that 9/11 was an attack on America by "Islamic terrorists". Through meticulous research, he has uncovered a military-intelligence ploy behind the September 11 attacks, and the cover-up and complicity of key members of the Bush Administration. According to Chossudovsky, the "war on terrorism" is a complete fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden, outwitted the $40 billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus. The "war on terrorism" is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final march to the "New World Order", dominated by Wall Street and the U.S. military-industrial complex. September 11, 2001 provides a justification for waging a war without borders. Washington's agenda consists in extending the frontiers of the American Empire to facilitate complete U.S. corporate control, while installing within America the institutions of the Homeland Security State.

And finally, Carroll Quigley liked to talk about his intimate love affair with what many call the New World Order.  Rare Carroll Quigley interview in 1974:

Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxVlBVXwU5k
Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgjc3LdMnK0
Part Three:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icRq4LsOVu0
Part Four:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS1p9viGc3E
Part Five:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrpmFQUWebM

In part five, Quigley offers his view on the One World Order's Conspiracies, Pyramids, the Illuminati/Freemason links, Secret Societies, Washington, Banks, and how it relates to 6000 years of history.  This is interesting because he was basically the official historian for "the elite."  Elias goes much more in-depth in various postings.

These things and more helped to solidify my existing suspicion that 911 was neither an accident or a plot by evil cavemen.  PNAC simply parroted what Zbig wrote earlier in the decade. 

Peace

edit:  Illuminati not Illuminat ;)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 07:18:40 pm by OOSpool »
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dogsledder54

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2009, 06:44:05 pm »

And it wasn't muslims who killed Daniel Perl, Nick Berg, and Theo Van Gogh. No, it was the Irish Catholics. :rolleyes:

(Know you were just making light humor, but have used your comment as a springboard. Apologies! )
Uhm, well, perhaps they were killed by the CIA?
Elias, let me elaborate on a couple things:
I was not ONLY making light humor. The fact is, that most of the "terror" incidents committed against the U.S. and Israel ARE done by muslims. Now, wait- I'm NOT saying that Islam is fighting a war against us, only that a few extremists exploit some unfortunate individuals into these "suicide" attacks. I notice that the "leaders" do not volunteer for these suicide missions themselves. And they incite the poorest, sometimes least-educated, sometimes young children, sometimes even the mentally handicapped to do their dirty work. The only people they can entice to strap on the explosive vests happen to be muslims- in fact they probably wouldn't TRUST anyone else. But I make no contention that the religion of Islam is at war with the west. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think we agree so far.

On another point, I have no inside info on the "politics" of the so-called war on terror. I don't know why Nick Berg and Daniel Perl were killed. I only know that their deaths were used for propaganda purposes, especially the death- the grisly videotaped death of Nick Berg. I don't KNOW if Nick Berg and/or Daniel Perl were actually CIA agents, as has been rumored. I have no info whether those rumors are based on anything other than disinformation, or not. And as I said, I neither know, nor have enough information to guess about the politics of the situation in the middle east. Although I think the U.S. is capable  and has been guilty of deception and conspiracies in the past, that alone is not sufficient to determine guilt or innocence in all of the covert or overt plots they are inferred to be involved in.
I guess what I am saying can be summed up as follows: I have NO IDEA how the CIA or other government and non-governmental agencies operate- I have no first- or even second-hand info about that. And I have often been critical of their incompetence- make that inability to protect us-  their supposed JOB. But just because I hate everything about our government does not mean that I believe EVERY accusation made against them. Not without proof. IMO, the U.S. government has done almost everything WRONG in responding to 9-11. They restricted OUR rights and freedom, instead of other more logical reactions. They invaded Iraq instead of sending in a team to rub out Hussein and company. They found a way to incarcerate suspects without trials or legal representation- even going before a judge, which is against everything that the U.S. stands for. They have supported laws making the U.S. into a police state, and it is getting worse every week.
But as I stated, I don't believe EVERY conspiracy theory- even though they may be POSSIBLE, I still need proof, even though I hate the gov as much as anyone.


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mouse

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2009, 10:43:41 am »

I think some of you (private Joker?) are thinking "yeah, 9.11 was bad, but it is really just another 'black op." and are willing to put up with the deception because "it served a purpose".

MASSIVE APOLIGIES IF I HAVE GOT THIS WRONG, AND NONE OF YOU THINK THIS WAY AT ALL, I AM DREADFULLY SORRY, BUT I KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE DO THINK THIS WAY, MAYBE OUTSIDE THIS FORUM?

The think is, was it worth it?  We have death all over the place - the deaths that occurred directly as a result of the "terrorist attacks" just on that particular day.  We have people continuing to die because their lungs have been affected by noxious dust even miles away from "ground zero", and also people have been murdered because they were "saying the wrong things" about "9.11" and there are more people left to murder yet.

Indirectly resulting from "9.11" we have others killed - Jean Charles De Menezes in UK and all the people in UK who were on public transport where a terrorist operation was staged in 2005, people in other "copy cat terrorist attacks".  This is not even to mention all those killed in Iraq and afghanistan.

Finally, why should you have to have a chip in your driving licence, not be able to take your eyedrops on an aeroplane and why should I not be able to visit the USA without being fingerprinted?

That is all a result of "9.11", and that is why we have to expose the fact that this is one of the biggest scams perpetrated on the world ever.

I cannot see anyone ever being held to account for any of this, but the truth must be revealed somehow.
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dogsledder54

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2009, 11:52:13 am »

Mouse- I guess I wasn't very clear. I respect your opinions and your judgement, but I don't happen to think that 9-11 was an inside job, or that the gov had advance warning, that it was a plot to install a fascist regime, or anything like that. I buy the theory that 19 hijackers took over 4 passenger airliners and ran 2 of them into the WTC, one into the Pentangle, and that passengers fought with the hijackers of the fourth plane, and it crashed in Pennsylvania. That's what I believe. I also believe that the Bush administration did almost everything wrong in response to the attacks. The only thing they did right, and it MAY not be due to anything they did, is to prevent another attack. It could be just luck, but more likely the fact that they are hiding in caves, and can't play offense at this time is responsible for no second or subsequent attacks.
Just because we disagree doesn't mean that I think everyone else here is stupid, or that I disrespect you all. Maybe I will be convinced later. Since coming to the TMM I have changed my mind about 1) being a constitutionalist, 2) whether the U.S. used "torture" on the terror suspects, and other questions to numerous to mention. I may be hard headed, but I CAN sometimes be convinced. But I don't make the error of thinking that you all are stupid or have less than noble motives. I realize that I don't know everything. I am only an egg.  :laugh:
Hope I made my position a little clearer.  :mellow:
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Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2009, 06:57:01 pm »

There are several posts here to which I'd like to reply already - but I'm fighting for minutes here, so this is just a note to thank each poster on this thread and to let you know I'll be back tonight with a couple of replies.

Salute!
Elias
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dogsledder54

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2009, 07:01:25 pm »

OK, standing by.   :mellow:
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Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2009, 02:50:10 am »

And it wasn't muslims who killed Daniel Perl, Nick Berg, and Theo Van Gogh. No, it was the Irish Catholics. :rolleyes:

(Know you were just making light humor, but have used your comment as a springboard. Apologies! )
Uhm, well, perhaps they were killed by the CIA?
Elias, let me elaborate on a couple things:
I was not ONLY making light humor. The fact is, that most of the "terror" incidents committed against the U.S. and Israel ARE done by muslims. Now, wait- I'm NOT saying that Islam is fighting a war against us, only that a few extremists exploit some unfortunate individuals into these "suicide" attacks. I notice that the "leaders" do not volunteer for these suicide missions themselves. And they incite the poorest, sometimes least-educated, sometimes young children, sometimes even the mentally handicapped to do their dirty work. The only people they can entice to strap on the explosive vests happen to be muslims- in fact they probably wouldn't TRUST anyone else. But I make no contention that the religion of Islam is at war with the west. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think we agree so far.


Private Joker,
Thanks for a candid reply. I appreciate your being in this discussion. I am placing this reply onto the thread before I reply to OOSpool, in hopes that he shall remain patient with me. I would like to begin with your first sentence above, and to offer you a different slant on what you say in that sentence. Here is the sentence -

Quote
The fact is, that most of the "terror" incidents committed against the U.S. and Israel ARE done by muslims.

On that one thing, we can certainly agree. The nature of Unconventional Warfare, according to the U.S. Army's manual on Unconventional Warfare (UW), is to use surrogates for their black-ops and psy-ops. UW agents use of course the indigenous culture in whatever land they're conducting Unconventional Warfare. In the middle east, it's natural that psy-ops operators would use Muslims/Arabs for their surrogates. Because our CIA began a terror campaign in Iran in 1953, and offended Islam by stationing U.S. forces in Saudi Arabia nearly twenty years ago, and has been conducting black-ops and psy-ops in most middle east nation-states since the early 1950s, there are a host of individual Muslims who hate our guts - and rightly so. Had the tables been reversed, and Mossedeq (The President of Iran, whom CIA deposed in 1953) had sent his Intelligence agents to America to shoot, kidnap, bribe, and blackmail U.S. Congressmen, and had Mossedeq bombed buildings and ran massive propaganda programs within our communities the way our CIA did to the people of Iran back then, you and I would be up in arms resisting the new government placed in power by Mossedeq. Yet, we did that to Iran in 1953, and it took them until 1979 to finally topple the Shah, whom CIA anointed as the new leader of Iran when they got rid of Mossedeq - but we, as Americans, are supposed to accept that our CIA did this to a sovereign nation-state and that the dirty deed should in no way have caused Arabs/Muslims to resent U.S. intrusion into their national affairs. What CIA did in Iran in 1953 is wrong, illegal, and immoral, and I do not blame those people over there one bit for hating us for it. My only hope is that they will figure out that not all Americans condone this sort of travesty conducted by CIA.

But anyway, the people of the middle east do have justifiable grounds on which to resent our tinkering in their affairs, imo. Adding to that initial insult in 1953, the CIA has remained over there doing an amazing number of similar things to other nation-states in the region, continuing to build up resentment toward America. The American public is seldom told about what CIA is doing over there, but the indigenous peoples there know damn well whence cometh their problems. And that is our problem today. Recruiting "terrorists" who'll blow themselves up for Allah would be very difficult indeed if America had not intruded in there first. America, via its unchecked CIA, committed the initial offense, no doubt about it. And America conitnued to harrass those people ever since taking down the government of Iran. It is now very easy to find thousands of Muslims over there who hate our guts.

Having established that perspective, I'll build on it now. I recommend taking pause to recall that Tim Osman is Osama bin Laden's "name" at CIA. CIA has been keeping tabs on bin Laden for many years now, and it started back around 1980-81 when CIA recruited bin Laden to help build their guerrilla army in Afghanistan. My "conspiracy theory" includes the platform which says that Osama bin Laden still works (or did until he died, which may or may not have happened - who can know?) for CIA. I think that CIA manages bin Laden and/or al Qaeda as one of CIA's "surrogates". By that I mean that CIA uses al Qaeda to create false-flag terror events. There is a very very interesting U.S. Army manual on Unconventional Warfare which I've only recently discovered and saved. It discusses how the Army's "Unconventional Warfare" operatives are advised to use surrogates which include - and this is in the document - "human traffickers", "organized crime", "smugglers", and "terrorists". They admit it in that document. Think about that for a minute please - use of terrorists by our government in psychological black operations for propaganda purposes is a practice which is now in my hot little hands, thanks to someone leaking that Army document. So here is the scenario of how 9/11 could have used 19 hijackers -

We know that CIA over-rode the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah to get fifteen of the 19 into this country. And we know that the FBI was actually living with three of them at the Pensacola Naval Flight Training facility in Florida, a secure U.S. Navy base. We know that the man who wired $100,000 dollars to Mohammed Atta just before the attacks of 9/11 was none other than the head of Pakistan's ISI, which works in lock-step with CIA, by treaty. And we know that on the morning of 9/11 this General (Mahmood Ahmed) was having breakfast with the two chairmen of the U.S. House and U.S. Senate Intelligence Oversight Committees in Washington D.C. as the planes dove into the buildings. We know that the 9/11 Commission actually stated in their report that the financing of 9/11 "is of no consequence", and that the Commission did not even investigate that money transfer from Ahmed to Atta. Why the ignorance of a hundred grand being sent to the head hijacker? Could that have to do with protecting a psy-op carried out under terms of Unconventional Warfare? The CIA could easily have made sure that bin Laden's boys were safely inserted into America and allowed to go about their business. But the orders for them to board certain flights could have come from someone connected with Dick Cheney's four wargame drills of that awful morning - their 'marching orders' could have come from someone inside a secret office at CIA, who would sign the note "Love, bin Laden" to give the impression that their orders were from the big bearded boss in his hole in Afghanistan. Knowing the history of CIA as I do, from having read too many excellent books by former CIA insiders, it is perfectly within the scope of CIA's MO to use willing dupes (the hijackers) as pawns in a very controlled and compartmentalized game of death and destruction. The idea was to blame it on Islamist radicals, or, for optimum popular perception, "terrorists".

Now I'm not asking you to believe that, but I'm just saying that my scenario, despite being too hastily pieced together here and therefore being too incomplete, is at least "possible" - while the government story, which involves 19 Arabic "hijackers" boarding four jetliners and somehow managing to avoid being on the passenger lists of each of the four flights, and that an amazing series of failures of American Intelligence and Defense procedures incredibly caused the complete stand-down of the U.S. military's ability to defend the most heavily protected air space on earth for well over an hour as four hijacked airliners moseyed around the skies over New York and Washington D.C.

But please allow me to say this to you personally - I know my theory sounds bizzarre to most folks, and I'm really not trying to convince you to believe my conspiracy theories on this subject. It's okay with me if you choose to believe your preferred version or accounting of the events of 9/11. What I do appreciate is your willingness to discuss it. Thanks for that.

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On another point, I have no inside info on the "politics" of the so-called war on terror. I don't know why Nick Berg and Daniel Perl were killed. I only know that their deaths were used for propaganda purposes, especially the death- the grisly videotaped death of Nick Berg. I don't KNOW if Nick Berg and/or Daniel Perl were actually CIA agents, as has been rumored. I have no info whether those rumors are based on anything other than disinformation, or not. And as I said, I neither know, nor have enough information to guess about the politics of the situation in the middle east.

Mon! On that whole thing I completely agree with you, and see myself as being in your shoes on this much of it, just as you described. I'm no expert on anything, and I cannot "say" with certainty very much at all. Rumors are also a part of Unconventional Warfare, and disinfo is a major tactic of Intelligence and U.S. military activity. And the politics of that area over there are mind-numbing to Americans who might try to learn about it. I'm completely with you on that much.



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Although I think the U.S. is capable and has been guilty of deception and conspiracies in the past, that alone is not sufficient to determine guilt or innocence in all of the covert or overt plots they are inferred to be involved in.

Well, we know now, in looking back at 20th Century American history, that a lot of things were done in our names about which we never had a chance to know until decades later. One early lie the Federal government got caught in was the Gary Frances Powers U-2 shootdown over Russia, after which Eisenhower got caught lying his ass off to the world. Then there was Kennedy lying through his teeth about the Bay of Pigs fiasco, which also was exposed and he was caught lying. There is Watergate, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Iran-Contra, BCCI, and a whole list of governmental lies, official lies, spoken to the American people in sincere attempts to deceive us. Look at what a farce the Warren Commission Report on the assassination of JFK was, for example. So we can certainly agree that this Federal government will lie to cover its covert and criminal acts - and that, above all else, establishes "precedence". Precedence takes the subject out of the realm of "possibility" into the realm of known fact and history, so that we can now say with certainty that we know that the government does illegal things and lies to us to cover them up.

But I'll also meet you half way and agree with you that, even though this government has been caught lying too many times in the past, still that does not necessarily imply that the government must be lying about 9/11. However, looking at the government's official story of 9/11, it is apparent to those of us who question government that whatever did happen did not happen the way we've been told by government that it happened. NIST has, after all, admitted that three WTC buildings (one not even struck by an airliner) did indeed fall at freefall speed into their own footprints. That's huge, Mon! And now the nine-member team of physicists/scientists have putlished their scientific paper on nano-thermitics, which shows clearly that there were tons of very high-tech explosive materials placed in those three buildings - before the planes ever hit.
Add to those glaring problems for fedgov's story the damning problem about the Pentagon strike not producing any Boeing 757 parts after the impact, and, and, ... well, I'll not go further into the bunches of very valid questions surrounding the government's story. Suffice to say that this government has lied before, and if I'm gonna believe anything this government says, they'll have to show me incontrovertible evidence - which thus far they have not, regarding 9/11.

But perhaps the most important thing is that the fedgov has been caught lying about the 1993 WTC bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing - and those two "terrorist" events were actually assisted by the FBI (in New York) and the BATFE in OK City, and that is now fairly accepted as common knowledge. Those events are yet another kind of "precedent", which imply that is could be possible that the fedgov assisted in the attacks of 9/11 as a psy-op/black-op false-flag event for purposes known only to a few "insiders". (I naturally have my suspicions, yes?) :)
(continued)
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livinright

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2009, 02:55:33 am »

Spot on Elias, IMO. Not that it means much.

But much respect....there is a bunch of history to be learned and sorted, and you've hit a bunch of it.

Thank you.

:)
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Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2009, 03:30:14 am »

livinright,
Thanks for the nice words. I sincerely appreciate it. And I'm sure that you must see what I'm seeing, or you would not recognize what I'm trying to fit into my words. I'm glad I'm not alone in my understanding of just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Now back to continuing my previous post, which would not fit into one text box.

~

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I guess what I am saying can be summed up as follows: I have NO IDEA how the CIA or other government and non-governmental agencies operate- I have no first- or even second-hand info about that. And I have often been critical of their incompetence- make that inability to protect us- their supposed JOB.

I agree, that we'd think we should expect to be protected from a band of cave-dwelling camel-jockies in the mountains of Afghanistan by our multi-trillion dollar Intel and Defense departments. But there is a way that anyone can begin to cultivate an understanding of the CIA and its compartmentalized secret sections which do the black-ops part of government bidding. Here are some excellent resources, in case you chance upon any of these at a yard-sale....

This guy let the cat out of the bag unwittingly when he published his book -
Against All Enemies: Inside America's War On Terror
by Richard A. Clarke; copyright RAC Enterprises, Inc. 2004; Free Press, Simon & Schuster, Inc.; ISBN: 0-7432-6024-4. (Richard A. Clarke served under the last three Presidents on the National Security Council staff. Under the Reagan Administration he was the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence. In the Bush 41 Administration he was the Assistant Secretary of State for Politico-Military Affairs and a member of the NSC. He served for eight years as a Special Assistant to President Clinton and served as National Coordinator for Security and Counterterrorism for both President Clinton and President George Walker Bush. From 2001 to 2003, he was the Special Advisor to the President for Cyberspace Security and Chairman of the President's Critical Infrastructure Protection Board. He began his career in 1973 in the Office of the Secretary of Defense as an analyst on nuclear weapons and European security issues.)

Richard Clarke says on page five in that book that the FAA and NORAD were seeing up to eleven hijackings on their radar screens that morning, and he also mentions in that book the wargame drills which were taking place that morning. He is a major player for the NWO crowd in Washington, D.C., but his accounts of several important aspects of the 9/11 attacks is corroborated - the conspirators were injecting fake hijacking "blips" onto the radar screens of NORAD that morning, and that is now known to be fact. Clarke helped make that case, albeit he did so unwittingly.

Next:
The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity In The Global Drug Trade
by Alfred W. McCoy; first copyright 1972 by Alfred W. McCoy and Cathleen B. Read; Harper and Row, Publishers, Inc.; Reprinted by arrangement with Harper and Row, Publishers, Inc.; Published by Lawrence Hill Books, an imprint of Chicago Review Press, Inc., 814 North Franklin Street, Chicago, Illinois; ISBN: 1-55652-126-X; paperback ISBN: 1-55652-125-1. 2nd Edition copyright Alfred W. McCoy 1991. EA note- I am told, but have not verified yes or no, that not every edition of this book contains the chapter on Nugan-Hand Bank. I draw from the paperback edition using the latter ISBN number above, which does feature the Nugan-Hand Bank chapter.

Compromised: Clinton, Bush, and the CIA
by Terry Reed; copyright 1994 by Terry Reed and John Cummings; Shapolsky Publishers, Inc., 136 West 22nd Street, New York, New York 10011; 212-633-2022; ISBN: 1-56171-249-3.

The Crimes Of Patriots: A True Tale of Dope, Dirty Money, and the CIA
by Jonathan Kwitny; W.W. Norton & Company, New York and London; copyright 1987 by Jonathan Kwitny; ISBN: 0-393-02387-7. (Mr. Kwitny is a writer for the Wall Street Journal.)

The CIA And The Cult Of Intelligence
by Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks; copyright 1974 by Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks; a Borzoi book, published by Alfred A. Knopf, Inc.; ISBN: 0-394-48239; first edition; Library of Congress Number: 74-4995. (Victor Marchetti was Executive Assistant to the Director of Clandestine Services at CIA; John D. Marks worked for the U.S. State Department's Intelligence offices.)

The Secret History Of The CIA
by Joseph J. Trento; copyright 2001 by Joseph J. Trento; Carroll & Graf Publishers, An imprint of Avalon Publishing Group Inc., 245 West 17th Street, 11th Floor, New York, New York 10011; ISBN: 0-78767-1500-6.

Jawbreaker: The Attack On Bin Laden And Al-Qaeda
by Gary Berntsen and Ralph Pezzullo; copyright 2005 by Gary Berntsen and Ralph Pezzullo; Three Rivers Press, imprint of the Crown Publishing Group, division of Random House, Inc., New York, www.crownpublishing.com ; ISBN-13: 978-307-35106-7 and ISBN-10 0-307-35106-8. EA note: Gary Berntsen was the CIA officer in charge during the assault on Afghanistan in October, 2001, and the senior CIA official overseeing the military operations from which Osama bin Laden was allowed - by General Tommy Franks and CENTCOM - to escape, first from Kabul, then from Jalalabad, and finally from Tora Bora, Afghanistan. Many parts of this book were deleted by the CIA prior to publication.

Confessions of an Economic Hitman
by John Perkins; copyright 2004 by John Perkins; published by Penguin Group (USA) Inc., 375 Hudson Street, New York, New York, 10014, U.S.A.; ISBN (hardcover) 1-57675-301-8; ISBN (pbk) 0-452-28708-1. (EA note: this book reveals how the Intelligence community uses finance to lever national policies in targeted nations, and deals with, among other problems, the IMF's role in U.S. banking conquests south of the border.

From The Shadows
by Robert M. Gates; copyright 1996 by Robert M. Gates; published by TOUCHSTONE, Rockefeller Center 1230 Avenue of the Americas, New York, New York 10020; ISBN: 0-684-81081-6 and (pbk) 0-684-83497-9. Robert Michael Gates was Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) at CIA from 1991 to 1993, and was in the National Security Council (NSC) at the White House for nine years.

Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA 1981-1987
by Bob Woodward; copyright 1987 by Bob Woodward; published by Simon And Schuster, a division of Simon And Schuster, Inc., Simon And Schuster Building, Rockefeller Center, 1230 Avenue Of The Americas, New York, New York 10020; ISBN: 0-671-60117-2. (EA note: this one is an outstanding expose of CIA's dirty tricks during the Reagan years, when VP G.H.W. Bush was running the Iran-Contra-Mena scandal out of the back door of the Reagan White House. This is an excellent glimpse into secret workings of CIA.)

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But just because I hate everything about our government does not mean that I believe EVERY accusation made against them. Not without proof. IMO, the U.S. government has done almost everything WRONG in responding to 9-11. They restricted OUR rights and freedom, instead of other more logical reactions. They invaded Iraq instead of sending in a team to rub out Hussein and company. They found a way to incarcerate suspects without trials or legal representation- even going before a judge, which is against everything that the U.S. stands for. They have supported laws making the U.S. into a police state, and it is getting worse every week.
But as I stated, I don't believe EVERY conspiracy theory- even though they may be POSSIBLE, I still need proof, even though I hate the gov as much as anyone.[/b]



Well, I salute you for requiring proof. And I wish I could show you the proof. But I must confess that the only proof I have is negative proof. By that I mean that all I can do is prove that the government's story is a grand lie, a fraud, a deception. The "proof" you're looking for is, in my guess, probably more than five more years from being seen. The books I've listed above for you are very good introductory glimpses into how CIA works, but in truth, I should recommend for you about thirty other books which will flesh-in the skeleton version you'd get from reading the above books. If you ever come to see things the way I see things, then you'll understand the difficulty of my chosen perspective on this matter of terrorism, and you'll then be able to understand why I cannot offer you any "proof" at this time. I'm trying to be very careful about what I allow myself to think. I can see many very good reasons to disbelieve the government story, but I cannot ask another person to see things the way I do - you'll be best-served by following your own inner instincts, your own intuitions, and your own conscience. I hope someday you'll join he remnant which does see through the government's deceptions, but you've got my respect no matter which way you choose to see this. Thanks for your input on this thread.

Salute!
Elias
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livinright

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2009, 03:47:10 am »

Indeed Elias, there is no "proof" only common sense. My father used to have me read thing from WWI and WWII that were, well, not books that people read back in that day. I was lucky to have a father like I had. I had found one of the books on the net, yet it has since been removed. The history goes way back. If I can find any of those writs, I will gladly share. Only history and common sense gets people like us through the day, though we cannot sleep at night, for liberty never sleeps..........

Peace and respect.
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Elias Alias

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Re: IT WASN'T MUSLIMS
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2009, 04:15:19 am »

Heh! I may have to edit this thing about eleventy-nine times to get the quote boxes right.

~

Thank you Elias!  I couldn't say it any better so I won't try :)  I'll try to offer some add-ons and some youtube stuff for the folks who don't read much.  I strongly suggest a thorough read of Zbig's books- in particular, "The Grand Chessboard." Quigley's "Tragedy And Hope"  and "The Anglo-American Establishment" are, in my opinion, essential reading as well.

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A few quotes from "The Grand Chessboard":

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How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources."

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“The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)

"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)

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"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)

Damn, OOSpool! I can only second your motion that people should read Brzezinski. Especially since the idiot is now an adviser to President Obama. I'll add in here another choice example of this man's idiocy - This is from his 1970 tome, Between Two Ages: America's Role In The Technetronic Era.

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Marxism represents a further vital and creative stage in the maturing of man's universal vision. Marxism is simultaneously a victory of the external, active man over the inner, passive man and a victory of reason over belief... " and "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."

Brzezinski is quite the chap, yes no? :) Thanks very much for including him in your post. I've been reading his stuff for years, and it's a sheer pleasure to meet in you another person who's instincts lead one to read men like Brzezinski. I hold Brzezinski to be one of the most treasonous and dangerous traitors in America. He is foresworn to work for a one-world government. By definition, a one-world government would over-ride the U.S. Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and our American way of life. By definition, to support a one-world government is treason. It pays to read what the globalists themselves publish, and no one who does not read their writings can possibly see through to the larger picture of the grand conspiracy. Again, it's a pleasure for me to meet you here. I see you as like-minded with myself. Welcome to TMM!


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I would also strongly encourage reading this little article from November 2001:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP111B.html

If I can dig it out, there is a great lecture given by Michel Chossudovsky in 2003.  I do not believe that things are any different with a "new administration." 

Oh, here it is:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3117338213439292490
War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11
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In this lecture by Michel Chossudovsky, he blows away the smokescreen put up by the mainstream media, that 9/11 was an attack on America by "Islamic terrorists". Through meticulous research, he has uncovered a military-intelligence ploy behind the September 11 attacks, and the cover-up and complicity of key members of the Bush Administration. According to Chossudovsky, the "war on terrorism" is a complete fabrication based on the illusion that one man, Osama bin Laden, outwitted the $40 billion-a-year American intelligence apparatus. The "war on terrorism" is a war of conquest. Globalisation is the final march to the "New World Order", dominated by Wall Street and the U.S. military-industrial complex. September 11, 2001 provides a justification for waging a war without borders. Washington's agenda consists in extending the frontiers of the American Empire to facilitate complete U.S. corporate control, while installing within America the institutions of the Homeland Security State.

Excellent! Chossudovsky was an early critic of the official lie. I've admired his tenacious research.

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And finally, Carroll Quigley liked to talk about his intimate love affair with what many call the New World Order.  Rare Carroll Quigley interview in 1974:

Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxVlBVXwU5k
Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgjc3LdMnK0
Part Three:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icRq4LsOVu0
Part Four:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS1p9viGc3E
Part Five:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrpmFQUWebM

In part five, Quigley offers his view on the One World Order's Conspiracies, Pyramids, the Illuminati/Freemason links, Secret Societies, Washington, Banks, and how it relates to 6000 years of history.  This is interesting because he was basically the official historian for "the elite."  Elias goes much more in-depth in various postings.

As I'm sure you already know, we could go much deeper "in-depth", but I fear losing too many readers by trying to pack too much into a post. (Many regulars here will laugh to hear me say that, lol. They think I already pack too much into a post! And they're right - I'm a long-winded old coot!) But I must thank you for filling in more info, and especially for the links to the Quigley interviews. That is a new find for me! Next time I'm over at Basil's place, where there is a computer that can actually play youtube stuff, I'll be sure to bring up the links and enjoy myself. I've got both Quigley books, and use them religiously in my research. It's a pleasure to meet someone who also has Quigley (and Brzezinski!).

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These things and more helped to solidify my existing suspicion that 911 was neither an accident or a plot by evil cavemen.  PNAC simply parroted what Zbig wrote earlier in the decade. 

Well said! PNAC, which has now taken its website off the web, was forming at the same time Brzezinski was writing The Grand Chessboard. Reading that book, and then reading the PNAC, shows any student of reality that the PNAC took their marching orders from the outline of The Grand Chessboard. I first found out about that book by watching Mike Ruppert's "Truth And Lies of 9/11". I found a copy of that baby in 2003, and have passed around many copies since then.

I'll close by saying again that I'm very happy to discover your mentality operating here at TMM. It's a rare pleasure whenever I chance upon another mind which is dedicated to doing the horrendous pile of reading and researching to get to the bottom of this so-called "War on Terror". You've just found yourself a new friend in me. Maybe there are more like us? Actually, you'll find that there are some like us here - some good readers who take the time to dig deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. But there are also a lot of members here who have not yet prepared their minds to take that leap into the unthinkable. With your help, perhaps we'll manage to improve my "conspiracy theorist" image, and change it to a "conspiracy fact" image. lol! Thanks for a very well-constructed and informative post.!

Salute!
Elias
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 04:27:43 am by Elias Alias »
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