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Author Topic: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech  (Read 6962 times)

planetaryjim

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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2008, 04:59:19 am »

I'm not really confident that FAQ is entirely up to date.  The file was updated today, though, so I may be in error.

In any event, I believe this introductory offer applies to the cost of transfers and re-issues, rather than the value of the digital gold being transferred.  YMMV.
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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2008, 02:26:24 pm »

Q#20. I want to learn more

A#20. Please also check out our Readme and our Philosophy or contact us with your questions.


Prudence requires more research than a firm's own 20-q&a FAQ.
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planetaryjim

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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2008, 03:15:40 pm »

Research involves asking questions and evaluating the quality and reliability of the answers.  Perhaps you have unanswered questions?

One of the difficulties of digital bearer instruments for gold is highlighted by the problems 1MDC had in April 2007 when a very large amount of e-gold was seized and all the 1MDC e-gold accounts were closed.  The problem with e-gold was having servers in the USA.  The problem with 1MDC was relying on e-gold as a storage medium.

One of the difficulties with any form of warehouse receipt for gold is force majeure.  In September 2007 the gold and silver backing the Liberty Dollar paper and digital warehouse receipts was seized.  Some effort is now underway to recover the seized gold.

Obviously, in light of these difficulties, the people behind eCache, who are not people I know other than by reputation, and not by name, are using technology to keep their names and whereabouts secret.  Thus the need to access the site using TOR, etc.  Given the nature of governments, their reactions to anonymous private transactions are understandable, if brutal and authoritarian.  Given the reactions one can anticipate from governments, it is no surprise that the eCache people hide.  Obviously, this lack of information about who they are and where they are does, in many ways, constrain the available information.

On the other hand, reputation is based on track record.  I have worked with eCache since about the time of its first announcement on one of the digital gold lists.  It is a very reliable currency.

One of its key advantages is that eCache is not an account based system.  There are no accounts to freeze or close.  It is a digital bearer system.

As I believe I've mentioned elsewhere on this thread, George Hara came up with a protocol for auditing anonymous digital bearer gold.  I do not know of any audits of the eCache gold.
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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2008, 03:28:45 pm »

Unanswered questions? No.
This stuff is still wait and see, for me at least. I think the PM transfer-network has
growing to do still-- customers *and* providers.
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planetaryjim

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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2008, 03:48:18 pm »

I think that's clearly true.

A gram of gold is worth about $30 or so in today's economy.  That was less than $10 in 1998 when I got involved.  So, messing around with it never seemed like a major cost, to me.  YMMV.
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Apple

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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 01:57:22 pm »

Now I go to the eCache site using TOR, my preferred VPN, and other tech.  I convert the one ounce digital bearer instruments into tenth ounce instruments.  I put one of those tenth ounce instruments at a Loom location.  I then contract with someone for an hour of work at, say, $194 per hour.  Half in advance.

I send a PGP encrypted message to the contractor.  He goes to the Loom location I mention to him and picks up the digital bearer instrument for a tenth ounce of gold.  He does the work, e-mails me the results in encrypted form.  I put another tenth ounce at the same location, tell him by enigmail to go get it.  He does.  We're both happy.

I don't get it. Why the indirection through Loom? What's the advantage over sending the DBC directly to the contractor via encrypted e-mail?
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Bill St. Clair

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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 02:43:19 pm »

I don't get it. Why the indirection through Loom? What's the advantage over sending the DBC directly to the contractor via encrypted e-mail?

You're thinking of stand-alone Digital Bearer Certificates (DBC), I think. That's Chaum's DigiCash idea. They can be carried around and traded, but have to be verified at the signing server in order to be split up, combined, or validated. Loom is more like a digital bank. You know the locations of your assets, and you can trade with others through shared trading locations. Security is by 128-bit obscurity, and by protecting your passphrase, which hashes to the 128-bit address of your Wallet, an index to your known locations. Loom requires contact with the Loom.cc server in order to make any trades.

It would certainly be possible to combine Loom with DBCs. Maybe someone will do so. Maybe Patrick.
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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 03:57:28 pm »

You're thinking of stand-alone Digital Bearer Certificates (DBC), I think. That's Chaum's DigiCash idea. They can be carried around and traded, but have to be verified at the signing server in order to be split up, combined, or validated.

True. And as far as I understand eCache, that's exactly what it is. I'd tell you to click on my homepage icon, which will take you to my Wolfekipedia TOC, and have a look at eCache. Unfortunately they seem to be down at the moment.
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planetaryjim

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Re: digital bearer instruments and encryption tech
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2008, 05:58:53 pm »

I don't get it. Why the indirection through Loom? What's the advantage over sending the DBC directly to the contractor via encrypted e-mail?

Where indirection is concerned, my typical answer is, "why not?"  More layers of indirection add complexity at times (though you can layer a simple interface on top of a more complex one, of course) and may add security, at least through obscurity.

Your point that eCache is a digital bearer cert is correct, and there is no reason not to just send it to the contractor.  Loom allows me to post anything, though, so the eCache token was just a handy thing meant to illustrate the point.

In point of fact, Patrick Chkoreff took some time out of our busy meeting in Georgia earlier this year to take me over the mountains and through the valleys to the vault where he keeps the gold coins which are Loom gold.  So, I performed an audit on the spot.  You can rely on the gold in Loom gold, bail more in if you have some, or redeem your Loom gold for gold coins by the ounce, negotiating with Patrick directly on fees if any.

I would say that the great thing about free market money is that there are so many options, so many really intelligent people working on clevering things up to the point where they may last.  In the short run, as Doug Casey points out, we are in for a bad, wild ride.  Hyperinflation and his Greater Depression, certainly.  In the long run, technology is going to make what the statists want unavailable.
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