The Mental Militia Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: 9/11 - the Litmus Test  (Read 7205 times)

Junker

  • Guest
9/11 - the Litmus Test
« on: February 22, 2008, 02:35:40 pm »

<edit in>
Warning, Warning
This ref'd site may be anti-semitic, or even politically incorrect.
Read at your own peril. It may infect your computer.
Think of your children. Think of mine too![/b][/color]
</edit in>


Smoking Mirrors
As long as certain twisted souls feel the need to lie, cheat and murder to
achieve their ends some of us need to keep pointing it out...


9/11 - the Litmus Test

    There is one thing that defines everyone over the
    course of these early years of this new century.
    That thing is the 9/11 attack. Everyone in govern-
    ment and every field of endeavor the world over is
    defined by their position on this event. It is not
    necessary to know the truth. It is only necessary
    to know the extent of the lies in order to define
    any leader in any position anywhere in the world.
    By what they have said and by what they have not
    said, one can accurately judge who is an enemy of
    the people’s of the world. One can accurately
    determine who is a tool of the psychopaths or
    one of them.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 06:11:47 pm by Junker »
Logged

dogsledder54

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2008, 11:48:04 am »

I assume that you think that 9-11 was an "inside job". I would like to hear your reasons why you believe that.
I read some of the Smiking Mirrors blog, and was immediately struck not by the anti-Bush sentiment, which I can easily understand, and agree with, but by the anti-semetic references with which I cannot agree. I distrust and loathe the government as much or more than anyone, but I must say that even though the federal, state, and local governments are using 9-11 as an excuse for the largest power-grab since the Roman Empire, the attacks on the world Trade Center and the Pentangle were the work of people more fearful of freedom than GW Bush, Nanny Pelosi, or Dick "Elmer Fudd" Cheney. They are merely big-government types, running a behemoth that must be dismantled, but IMHO, the blame for nearly 3000 deaths on September 11th, 2001 must be placed upon those who were responsible, namely radical Muslims.
Logged

Mr. Dare

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3491
  • My Strawman will beat hell out of yours any day!
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2008, 12:20:54 pm »

Quote
I read some of the Smiking Mirrors blog, and was immediately struck not by the anti-Bush sentiment, which I can easily understand, and agree with, but by the anti-semetic references with which I cannot agree.

   The 9/11 conspiracy stuff on these boards is not by any means mandatory reading... AND if you find ANY antisemitism or other rascist content on these boards, bring it to a moderator's attention because like you, we do not hold with that and will not tolerate this forum being used to promote anything of the sort. I have seen some questionable sites linked to, but we are not responsible for their content. Most people here see those sites for what they are and criticize them roundly in the thread where the link is contained.
   We have had our share of racists, neo-nazis and skinheads pass through our portals (what website with firearms content hasn't) but we do not suffer them lightly, and they don't stay long. I remain unconvinced by the 9-11 conspiracy stuff, though I am open to convincing and try and view it with an open mind.  Others are welcome to embrace it or question it or poo poo it as suits their fancy.
Logged
"He's no fun, he fell right over!"
"I've got Deku Nuts coming outta my ass and I still can't kill this bastard!!!" (my sweet wife...)
"The road to Hell is paved with happy plans..."
"I do not avoid Twinkies, Duck, but I do deny them my essence." Joel

dogsledder54

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2008, 12:39:43 pm »

If you look at the Smoking Mirror blog, you will observe the anti-semitism. It is obvious. However, I do not hold Junker responsible for it, as he merely referenced that blog, and apparently agrees with its' contention that Americans planned and executed the attacks on September 11th. It does not necessarily follow that Junker agrees with those anti-semitic views. I'm looking forward to hearing his views in his own words. Until then, I will reserve judgement. Thanks.
Logged

Junker

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2008, 01:43:30 pm »

I think free speech—the liberty of an individual to say what they
will anytime, anywhere including anti-semitic, anti-christian, or any
other practical or philosophical view whatsoever—is a sine qua
non
of liberty. And note that the idea of free speech does
not assert protection from the consequences of what is said,
i.e., getting kicked out of someones house or forum, losing business,
or anything else. I also think the use of "anti-semitic" is too often
a cover for anti-free-speech and many times an effort to stop
criticism of the Israeli government.
Logged

dogsledder54

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2008, 04:15:33 pm »

A few selected quotes from the Smoking Mirrors site that Junker linked to:
We’ve seen Netanyahu soul mate, Bill Maher, screaming like a hemorrhoidal finger puppet at his audience.<snip>
The Levittown nation of Israel.
is going to be celebrating sixty years of being around in May of this year. <snip>
You have to wonder why all of those rockets being fired at Israel never seem to hit anyone and when they do it’s usually a minor
injury. 'They' say hundreds and hundreds of rockets are raining down on Israel. They keep landing in empty lots. Now, if Israel
were responsible for a number of these rocket attacks, the reason probably is that you can never have peace as long as you
can attack yourself
while appearing to be the other guy and that’s what Ersatz Israel is all about. Did you think I meant ‘Eretz
Israel’? No, I did not.<snip>
Joseph Goebbels was a war criminal. He was the minister of information and propaganda for the Nazis. Today we have new war
criminals and new Nazis. We have the editors of the New York Times and the Washington Post and nearly all of the mass
media of print and television who are complicit in the extermination of the Palestinian people.
You have only to look at the
wording to see whose side they are on. Well, that’s no surprise given that the media is owned by The Zionists.<snip>
They are about to go into Gaza and kill a whole lot of people because they are in the way. ***It’s part of this big celebration that
maybe The Beatles are going to show up at and maybe they will sing “All you need is Blood.” No doubt John Lennon and
George Harrison are going to rise from the dead for the event. Day after day they are killing Palestinians that have nothing to do
with anything except being trapped in a place they can’t get out of.<snip>
Anyone who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of the Cheka," wrote Jewish historian Leonard Schapiro, "stood a very
good chance of finding himself confronted with, and possibly shot by, a Jewish investigator." In Ukraine, "Jews made up nearly
80 percent of the rank-and-file Cheka agents
," reports W. Bruce Lincoln, an American professor of Russian history. (Beginning
as the Cheka, or Vecheka) the Soviet secret police was later known as the GPU, OGPU, NKVD, MVD and KGB.)

Now… doesn’t this mean that Zionist Jews should pay reparations for the much larger amount of people for whose deaths they
were responsible in Russia? Wouldn’t you think there should be at least an acknowledgement of the situation?<snip>
the 60th anniversary of the beginning of the Palestinian genocide, the Washington/Tel Aviv fife and drum clubs rendition of
“Bomb Iran”,
<snip>
If America has been transformed into the Land of the Stupids, who send their kids to fight wars engineered by a foreign nation then what does that make America?<snip>
*** Note: Israel LEFT Gaza unilaterally "Monday, 12 September 2005, 08:46 GMT 09:46 UK 
Israel completes Gaza withdrawal 
 Israeli troops have pulled out of the Gaza Strip more than 38 years after capturing the narrow coastal area. "
quoted from the BBC news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4235768.stm
I have no quarrel with you, Junker. You are entitled to your opinions, as are the writers of the Smoking Mirror, and any other blog. But I couldn't let these anti-semitic references go unchallenged. I would do the same for anyone who I felt was being unfairly slandered because of the circumstances of their birth. One cannot be held responsible for the nationality of one's parents, or one's skin color, or height, or one's place of birth. One is, however responsible for one's actions and words, as am I.
Logged

Mr. Dare

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3491
  • My Strawman will beat hell out of yours any day!
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 05:21:59 pm »

   While I admit the rhetoric is a bit bombastic and inflammatory, it does level criticism at the nation of Isreal, and but not specifically Judaism or all Jews per say. I'm not supporting or repudiating the words written by those authors, but is it not possible to criticize the nation of Israel without being an Anti Semite? There is no denying that the nation Israel is a major point of contention in that region, as is the American Government's support of that nation. There is doubtless some element of that conflict involved in any discussion of that area of the world. I would have chosen my words with much more care, but I see more criticism of the policies of the nation than the people. Many Jewish people would make the same distinction between the nation of Isreal and the Jewish People.
   I can see the reasons for your concern however, and I do agree that the tone of the writing tends to detract from it's credibility. I do think it would unfair to put the nation of Israel outside the scope of critical discussion however. I have always thought that whole situation was handled like a bad eminent domain highway project, and I can see no way out of the conflict at this point which would be agreeable or fair to both sides.
Logged
"He's no fun, he fell right over!"
"I've got Deku Nuts coming outta my ass and I still can't kill this bastard!!!" (my sweet wife...)
"The road to Hell is paved with happy plans..."
"I do not avoid Twinkies, Duck, but I do deny them my essence." Joel

Claire

  • Plain Folks
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6577
    • Living Freedom
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 05:34:56 pm »

Very well said, Mr. Dare!

But I also understand Cell's concerns. I agree with nearly everybody else there that genuine anti-Semitism is as loathsome as every other form of groupthink (and more than some, given the real-world horrors it's spawned). From the snippets Cell just posted, I'm sure the Smoking Mirror is a site I'll stay MILES away from -- preferably several galaxies away from.

I think it's really unfortunate -- and downright weird -- that there is any connection, real or perceived, between a love of liberty and a hatred of Jews.

But OTOH, the common assertion that everyone who criticizes the nation of Israel and the fedgov's entanglements with it is an anti-Semite is idiotic. Not saying you're making any such claim, Cell. I respect and mostly share your viewpoint here. But Mr. D. makes a point that needs to be made more often in political discourse: no country is ever above criticism.
Logged
Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi

BillS

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2008, 06:03:24 pm »

I don't even think I saw one "anti-semetic" remark in that passage.  More specifically, I didn't see anti-Jewish remarks either (I believe Palestinians are semites too). I saw anti-Israel sentiment, completely different and in my opinion justifiable.  Israel is an apartheid government who routinely ignores UN resolutions and human rights.  Having been to Israel twice, it is a horrible socialist police state as well, you think the TSA is bad try dealing with their security.  There is some anti-Zionist remarks, but so what? Zionists are not specifically Jewish, they are Christian as well.  There are evil Jews, just as there are evil Christians, Muslims, etc etc.  An evil Jew should be able to be called evil without fear of being smeared a racist, bigot or "anti semite".  Jews and Israel are not above criticism in my book, neither is anyone else.  I am not trying to takes sides or anything, but it is troubling to see free speech stifled by this kind of smearing.
Logged

Junker

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2008, 06:16:49 pm »

I'll go with BillS.

In any case, I've put a warning on my post so those who might like may avoid clicking on the link.
Logged

dogsledder54

  • Guest
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2008, 06:40:46 pm »

I was not implying that any criticism of Israel is out of line, or anti-semitic, just that there was an unpleasant tone  to the website, and quoted the blog to prove my point.  Israel, is a state, and almost by definition, a state is too often anti-liberty in one form or another, especially when that state is perpetually in conflict or outright war. Rights are trampled in war as in no other human enterprise. In a dispassionate account of the facts, no doubt Israel AND the Palestenians are to blame for much suffering. But the blog referenced contained too much that reminded me of propaganda and/or hate speech. As I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the website did not strike me as fair.
Logged

Claire

  • Plain Folks
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6577
    • Living Freedom
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2008, 07:58:13 pm »

I am not trying to takes sides or anything, but it is troubling to see free speech stifled by this kind of smearing.

I don't think A Cell of One was trying to stifle anybody's free speech. It's not stifling to express a contrary opinion (assuming that's what you're implying).

And of course an evil Jew or Christian or Muslim or atheist can be called an evil person. But you know darned well that too often bigots call Jews evil (or imply it) simply because they are Jews. A guy stopped at my gate just a couple weeks ago and was going on and on about how "science has shown that 30-40 percent of all Jews are sociopaths who feel pleasure at other people's pain" -- and on and on until I walked away from the conversation. He didn't even get excited about it; to him, it was just "the truth" and anybody who didn't believe it was brainwashed.

That kind of anti-Semitism is real and goes pretty deep -- as in deep into quicksand.

He's got a right to his opinions, though, and so do the writers of that web site. I don't think Cell or anybody else here would say otherwise.
Logged
Just as the flattery of friends often leads us astray, so the insults of enemies often do us good. -- St. Augustine, Confessions, Book IX, Chapter 8


When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


My life is my message. -- Gandhi

Anduril

  • Shunned
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 754
  • Somewhere, over the Rainbow...
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2008, 09:12:31 pm »


    Where '9/11' is concerned, I try to stay focused on the forensic, scientific and technical evidence.  Until we've worked out _what_ really happened, we're in no position to say who did it, or why.

     Start with the events at WTC and the Pentagon, and work outwards from there.

     The "Official Conspiracy Theory" is lying on its back with its legs waving feebly in the air.  It is contradicted by hard physical evidence at countless junctures.  We can approach the truth as we do in science: by critical rationalism, conjectures and refutations.

      Only controlled demolition can account for the observables at WTC. The maximum structural steelwork temperatures reported by NIST are 250 degrees Centigrade.  The fuel burned off in the first few seconds. The steelwork wicks away the heat.  The buildings fall at uninterrupted speed.  Hundreds of thousands of tons of steel and concrete are pulverized in mid-air and spectacularly blown all over New York. This cannot happen without massive use of explosives.


      I spent half an hour in telephone conversation with the Chief Freedom of Information Officer at the Pentagon on June 3, 2004.  His boss was killed there on 9/11.  Via the Internet, we looked at numerous high-resolution photographs of the Pentagon, taken by named US Military personnel. This is the man who blacks out the classified bits on FOIA documents.  He has access to the Pentagon mainframes.

      At the end of half an hour, he said with a voice like cold polished steel:

      "_There was no Boeing._"

       (Coincidentally, CIA Director George Tenet and his "Counter-terrorism" Deputy announced their 'surprise' resignations half an hour later).

      And indeed, how could there be?  Where did two indestructible six ton turbojet engines go?  Where did the massive steel axles and wheel bearings go?  All the hydraulic actuators and bearings?  Where did all the security videos go?  Why was there nothing left of the aircraft ("vaporized!"), yet government officials could somehow recover DNA samples of everyone allegedly on board?

       www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

       French researcher Thierry Meyssan was declared "Persona non Grata" and banned from speaking in the US for this, BTW.


       A good friend of mine who is a former US Navy combat jet pilot, physicist and former Manager of Radiofrequency Spectrum Allocation at a US Air force base personally calculated the communications capabilities of cellphones, then tested the results with real cellphones from real aircraft, with the result that such communication was shown to be physically impossible, both theoretically and practically.  So much for the "phone calls from hijacked passengers."

        Four twin-jet airliners would have had eight six ton engines designed to function in temperatures of thousands of degrees Fahrenheit. Each engine has multiple unique serials. NONE of these engines have _ever_ been recovered, to our knowledge.

        I haven't seen evidence which would convict _any_ perpetrators beyond a reasonable doubt.  I have to ask why Giuliani destroyed crime scene evidence; and why John Ashcroft failed to have the FBI investigate domestic acts of terrorism.

        No-one capable of independent thinking can read David Ray Griffin and still believe the Official Story.  Whereas ten or so well-placed conspirators working in compartmented operations could certainly sneak 'live ammo' into an exercise.

        Regards,

        Anduril


Logged
ANDURIL   (Qu?: 'west-brilliance')  The sword of Aragorn II, reforged from the shards of Narsil (itself originally forged by Telchar of Novgrod), by elven-smiths in Rivendell in TA 3018.  On its blade a design of seven stars (for Elendil) between a crescent moon (for Isildur) and a rayed sun (for Anarion), as well as many runes.  Because of its heritage and its bearer, and because of its great brightness, Anduril quickly became a famous weapon.

Elias Alias

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4918
  • TMM
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 05:44:36 am »


    Where '9/11' is concerned, I try to stay focused on the forensic, scientific and technical evidence.  Until we've worked out _what_ really happened, we're in no position to say who did it, or why.

     Start with the events at WTC and the Pentagon, and work outwards from there.

     The "Official Conspiracy Theory" is lying on its back with its legs waving feebly in the air.  It is contradicted by hard physical evidence at countless junctures.  We can approach the truth as we do in science: by critical rationalism, conjectures and refutations.

      Only controlled demolition can account for the observables at WTC. The maximum structural steelwork temperatures reported by NIST are 250 degrees Centigrade.  The fuel burned off in the first few seconds. The steelwork wicks away the heat.  The buildings fall at uninterrupted speed.  Hundreds of thousands of tons of steel and concrete are pulverized in mid-air and spectacularly blown all over New York. This cannot happen without massive use of explosives.


      I spent half an hour in telephone conversation with the Chief Freedom of Information Officer at the Pentagon on June 3, 2004.  His boss was killed there on 9/11.  Via the Internet, we looked at numerous high-resolution photographs of the Pentagon, taken by named US Military personnel. This is the man who blacks out the classified bits on FOIA documents.  He has access to the Pentagon mainframes.

      At the end of half an hour, he said with a voice like cold polished steel:

      "_There was no Boeing._"

       (Coincidentally, CIA Director George Tenet and his "Counter-terrorism" Deputy announced their 'surprise' resignations half an hour later).

      And indeed, how could there be?  Where did two indestructible six ton turbojet engines go?  Where did the massive steel axles and wheel bearings go?  All the hydraulic actuators and bearings?  Where did all the security videos go?  Why was there nothing left of the aircraft ("vaporized!"), yet government officials could somehow recover DNA samples of everyone allegedly on board?

       www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

       French researcher Thierry Meyssan was declared "Persona non Grata" and banned from speaking in the US for this, BTW.


       A good friend of mine who is a former US Navy combat jet pilot, physicist and former Manager of Radiofrequency Spectrum Allocation at a US Air force base personally calculated the communications capabilities of cellphones, then tested the results with real cellphones from real aircraft, with the result that such communication was shown to be physically impossible, both theoretically and practically.  So much for the "phone calls from hijacked passengers."

        Four twin-jet airliners would have had eight six ton engines designed to function in temperatures of thousands of degrees Fahrenheit. Each engine has multiple unique serials. NONE of these engines have _ever_ been recovered, to our knowledge.

        I haven't seen evidence which would convict _any_ perpetrators beyond a reasonable doubt.  I have to ask why Giuliani destroyed crime scene evidence; and why John Ashcroft failed to have the FBI investigate domestic acts of terrorism.

        No-one capable of independent thinking can read David Ray Griffin and still believe the Official Story.  Whereas ten or so well-placed conspirators working in compartmented operations could certainly sneak 'live ammo' into an exercise.

        Regards,

        Anduril




That was fine posting. Thanks, Anduril.

I can vouch for the validity of every single thing Anduril has just said. So can these good folks:

http://www.stj911.org/

Salute!
Elias
Logged
"Heirs to self-knowledge shed gently their fears..."

slidemansailor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4225
  • A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves
    • The Bitterroot Bugle
Re: 9/11 - the Litmus Test
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 07:09:20 am »

I think few could review these websites
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/
http://www.911truth.org/
http://www.loosechange911.com/
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
and view what they have to offer without coming to disbelieve the official tale of 9/11.  The ramifications are so immense that seeking the truth is worth the effort.  There are truly horrible people wandering the halls of power in the USA.  We should constantly be working to expose them with at least some of the time we allocate to political activism and self-defense.

Believers in the official conspiracy theory, ask yourself this: 
If it is possible that an inner circle including past and future presidents did plan and execute the 9/11 death and destruction as a false flag event, should you thoroughly examine that possibility with an open mind?
Logged
If you don't work for liberty,  you don't get it.

http://BitterrootBugle.com/
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up