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Author Topic: 20/20 Stupid in America  (Read 2367 times)

dervish

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20/20 Stupid in America
« on: August 03, 2007, 11:25:55 am »

I asked a friend with experience teaching in the public schools to look at this vid for me and comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA

She thought this was responsible reporting and didn't ["unfortunately"] surprise her at all. So I thought I'd share it with others who were interested.

Natch, we know there are private schools that have their own problems  I've heard that not ALL Charter schools have been miracles, and that one reason they're successful is because they sometimes take pains to get rid of "problem students" (not that this is necessarily a bad thing, btw).  The sub I asked to watch and comment on this holds a very dim view of the private school (SDA) she was schooled in, though Hillary Clinton praises SDA private schools (for whatever that's worth).  Her memories of that school hold all the dysfunction, stupidity, and malice of faculty and students as any public school.  She's also met someone who was not only sent to a private school, but even got Advanced Placement before spending a few years in college, and was still incredibly ignorant, even from a purely academic standpoint.  Granted, I think that outside of certain religious schools, it would be difficult for many private schools to stay afloat with such failure.

Still, the schools shown in the report, from the best to the worst, were better than anything she's ever been in, as a student or as a teacher.  (And better than I've been in, too.)  And I know someone who used to be a teacher that since became a prison guard and she much prefers her new career.  And another guy who subbed has since gone to working with the criminally insane and says that job is less stressful for him (he has some truly sad stories from his time as a glorified babysitter).  And John Stossel didn't go into other severe problems of the school system, which he easily could've done if he wanted to just milk & cherry pick the bad for all it's worth, Michael Moore-style.  Instead, he did show schools that were working, even government funded ones (outside the USA).  Though those Belgium hjgh school students saying a test was really easy, yet got only 3 out of 4 (while one of the best in the USA got a little less than half) has me curious how well they do with a HARD test.

I liked the Hungarian schools, assuming he's being more honest than Michael Moore was on the health care in the UK and France, and might consider using them if schools were like that.  The important part seemed to be competition, and not allowing teacher's unions to strangle it.  I do recall being taught the virtues of competition and evils of monopoly in school, but it seems that the teacher's unions and other school faculty members don't want that for themselves, but instead prefer unaccountability.  (And, natch, more money, but who doesn't want that?)

It was also interesting to me about the claim that 4rth graders in the USA are well above the worldwide average, but by high school are way down on the list.  I wish I'd known that when my igh school class got a canned speech on how drugs destroyed intelligence and motivation. :rolleyes:

I did very well with homeschoolers and unschoolers.  The only thing "provided by the tax payers" that we used was the library.  And on that note, I'd like to include this short & sweet vid that details the differences one guy has noted between schools and libraries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHYzIp_EH44

Btw, that reminds me that the one I know working in the prison system now says that the teacher's unions involved with the prisons has been screwing over the librarians for a long time and the librarians are looking at other alternatives.

See also:

http://www.great-ideas.org/range.htm

http://nbtsc.org/

And for someone who made a strong difference (and even had a movie made about his successes), see what Jaime Escalante accomplished (and then what was done to him & his program):

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28479.html

For a very short summary of the vid posted at the top on 20/20's Stupid in America:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338
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Re: 20/20 Stupid in America
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 02:58:32 am »

 :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 08:47:57 pm by Not a TMM member »
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Thunder

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Re: 20/20 Stupid in America
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 05:58:31 am »

They spend way too much time teaching the kids to be good little followers and not enough on how to lead their own lives.

Mission Accomplished.

That, right there, is the whole purpose of public schools.  If you haven't already, read State vs The People.  It lays it all out for you.
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Roy J. Tellason

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Re: 20/20 Stupid in America
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2007, 12:10:52 am »

And then of course there's the whole *book* onliine at johntaylorgatto.com...

Well worth the read!
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AnotherArmchair

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Re: 20/20 Stupid in America
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 02:39:14 pm »

Gatto is interesting. I don't know if I'd go so far as his "Genius is as common as dirt," but I've said for years that people are generally far more capable than they've been led to believe they are. Expectation means a lot (within the limit, as always).
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Re: 20/20 Stupid in America
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 02:03:31 am »

Gatto is interesting. I don't know if I'd go so far as his "Genius is as common as dirt," but I've said for years that people are generally far more capable than they've been led to believe they are. Expectation means a lot (within the limit, as always).

I've been giving some thought to starting another thread,  one that I'm probably gonna call "different kinds of smarts" or something to that effect.  When I get the time,  the energy,  and my thoughts on the subject sufficiently organized.

People _will_ surprise you,  pretty often,  I think.
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