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Author Topic: In the closet?  (Read 31578 times)

Jguy101

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In the closet?
« on: August 03, 2006, 10:26:25 pm »

I've been feeling a little curious lately: are any other people here "in the closet" when it comes to liberty?

I'm 14, and my mom and sister kind of freaked out when I said that I didn't think there should be security at the airport and that everyone should be allowed to carry guns onboard a plane; my mom said that I had the right to my own opinion, but my sis was saying that I shouldn't be allowed on the gun forums with "the crazy 50-year-old rednecks" or whatever she thinks they are...hey, she's moving out in a month anyway.

But, I'm a little worried: my dad would probably REALLY freak out if he heard about that, or my views on other matters, and possibly even disconnect the USB cable that links my PC to the DSL modem.
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Tom P.

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2006, 04:19:26 am »

At 14, its probably in your best interests right now to not freak-out/piss-off the "parental units". That being said, its hard to really get down on a kid for reading stupid little things like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Cracking open a copy of "Common Sense" by Tom Paine. Educating yourself to the writtings of Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson. Or you can get really impressive and start reading philosophers like John Locke (for instance).

Hard to freak out your family by doing a little self study on Poli-Sci, US History, or Philosophy... you get to further your education, you can talk all day to your family about liberty and freedom by starting your discussion with something along the lines of "I was reading today about Tabula Rosa and....." and bonus, you get extra brownie points by being the good son who stays out of trouble and spends his time reading, not watching MTV or playing HALO all day on the XBOX.

It sucks being a mole in your own house, but it can be damn easy, and educational... Leave the gray-hair-giving to your sister, at least til your 18.

Just my 2cents as someone who grew up "in the closets" of both religion and politics.
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Dare2BFree

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2006, 07:06:12 am »

Jguy101...

I agree with Tom P. completely.  Being 14 it may seem like forever before you're "legally" able to make your own decisions.  But it will be over before you know it.  Take this time to educate yourself.  I wish I had realized at 14 what my beliefs on liberty were instead of just thinking "government sucks".  I would have had a head start on the game. 

Quote
....." and bonus, you get extra brownie points by being the good son who stays out of trouble and spends his time reading
  This is very true.  Being seen as someone who actually thinks through their decisions will help the elders know that you are serious and have intelligently thought things through - now and in the future.

I've been "in the closet" for years on politics as well and have just started to come out in the last few years.  There were/are many days that I listen to all the craziness that people around me are saying and then get in my car to go home and just think "IDIOTS".  There are just some places where I'm not willing/able to let my opinion be known and in those areas it's best that I keep my mouth shut until I'm in private.

Good luck


Dare
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Claire

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2006, 08:24:39 am »

JGuy101,

You pose an interesting & complex question. First thing -- congratulations to you for getting so far and having the courage of your convictions. IMHO being 14 is the pits, especially when surrounded by people who not only disagree with you but also (perhaps) refuse to take your views seriously simply because you are 14. ("Oh, he'll grow out of that nonsense ..." argh.) Worse when those people have the power to punish you for disagreement.

Funny thing is that your dilemma applies in a different way to older people, as well. A lot of us are "out of the closet" here on the forums or in political meetings, but we never breathe a word about, say, drug legalization or discreet carry of firearms, in our workplace or to our next-door neighbor. We just weigh our situation and decide that it's not worth the hassle.

Tom P. gave some fine advice. But  :laugh: I have to admit it's advice that I could not have and would not have followed in my teens. Questions to you: Do you really crave to have your parents and sister respect your views? Or do you kind of enjoy outraging them? That is, are you a natural-born good kid (in which case Tom P.'s advice is excellent) or are you flexing your rebel muscles a bit?

In the latter case, you might still be able to pursue your love of liberty without giving too much focus to what adults and an older sibling might find acceptible. (More later if I can get a better fix on who you are and what motivates you.)

Claire
(Who remembers all too well her own disapproving older sister ...)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 08:27:40 am by Claire »
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When faith ceases to be a challenge to the standards of polite society, it is no longer, or has not yet become, faith. -- Donald Spoto, Reluctant Saint:  The Life of Francis of Assisi


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Evil Twin

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2006, 01:27:47 pm »

Although I am pretty open when it comes to the anonymous internet, I try to lead a fairly compartmentalized life.  Some peolpe know me as X.  Others know me as Y.  Not many people really know everything I have going on.  It tends to work out for the best that way. 

Being of the molish sort, I know how "cooperating" with the government (ie paying taxes, etc) can be looked down upon by some.  I just have a different outlook than them, and I think its ok.  I think we have the same goals, we just have different methods. 

Think of it like being in an Army.  There are the people on the front lines (agitators) , then there are the people in the rear supporting them (ghosts and moles).

In real life, I try to figure out what the most I can get away with is and then back if off slightly.  Let people get comfortable with that, then take it another step.  For example:

My step-mother in law was born and raised in Queens and has lived her entire life within throwing distance of NYC.  She had a rabid fear of guns.  The first time she came to myself, I didn't strut out with an armfull of weapons, but I did mention "an old shotgun" - something non threatening.  Over the past few years, I have gotten her very comfortable with the idea of regular non criminals owning guns.  She still doesn't want to shoot them, but she has been de-sensitized to seeing them and hearing about them.  I am going to have to deal with her for the next (how long do new yorkers live anyway???) 20+ years, so I didn't see a great need to be totally in her face.  That would have permanently turned her sour and thats something I didn't really want.

This is just my style.  Some people do it differently.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 03:19:02 pm by Evil Twin »
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Mr. Bill

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2006, 08:29:28 pm »

I'm 14, and my mom and sister kind of freaked out when I said that I didn't think there should be security at the airport and that everyone should be allowed to carry guns onboard a plane...

Hey, I'm 49 and I can still freak out my mom talking about guns.  And I don't even discuss the subject with my dad or my brother.

I think most of us are partly/sometimes "in the closet", because it's just too much trouble (or impossible) to give everybody a complete, satisfactory explanation of why we believe in such "weird" things.

Maybe 15 years ago I first mentioned to my mom that we'd bought a shotgun.  And I heard her on the phone actually gasping for air, and I explained that, well, we used to live in a place with too much crime, and the police can't always get there in time, so we felt we really ought to have something around -- but don't worry, Mom, we're living in a safer place now, so we don't really need it, etc.

So I don't lecture her, but I just mention the subject on occasion, and last month when I told her we'd gone out in the front yard (rural area) to shoot a milk jug, she didn't make a fuss.  Well, not a big fuss.

The thing is, if you hit people with "weird" ideas or beliefs, it's a big help if they already respect you for your intelligence and thoughtfulness.  And it's hard to be respected at age 14, especially by your parents and older siblings.  (Think of it from their side. They've known you your whole life, so their mental image of you is like an average of your last 14 years -- and, on the average, you're 7 years old, right?)

Take it slow. Don't hit them with a bunch of extreme stuff all at once. Don't let them think you're just sucking up weird ideas from the evil Internet. And (maybe most important) show respect for their own ideas and beliefs -- a lot more respect than what you're getting from them in return -- in other words, treat them the way you'd like to be treated.

And, oh yeah, neither a borrower nor a lender be, to thine own self be true, yada yada yada.   :mellow:
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Bear

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2006, 01:00:03 am »

Jguy101,

Welcome! I've got jus a few comments as a former 14 year old myself!*

1. Trust yourself. You are as likely to be 'right' at least as often as everybody else.

2. Being 'right' will not keep you out of trouble. There are people with very 'wrong' ideas, and they
will defend their beliefs to the last drop of your blood.  :brood:

3. You do not need to change other people to prove that you are right. Just live the right way.
You may turn out to be an example that will change other people's minds better than an
argument ever would.

4. Be patient. This is the really hard part, I know. Either your family will come around, or you will
grow old enough to be on you own and you can remove yourself from daily life in that family situation.

Take care.

Bear

* Ok, so it's been awhile! :laugh:
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Jguy101

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2006, 09:13:40 pm »

Sorry I didn't get around to replying earlier; I've been pretty busy over the last couple days.

@Tom P.: I'll look some of that stuff up next time I'm at the library.

@Claire: I'm not trying to rebel at all; I just want my views respected.

I am having a few problems with guns; you see, my mom's brothers introduced me to guns back when I was 7, and I know at least one is a Libertarian. I do have a 10/22, but it's at one uncle's house in CA because my dad doesn't like guns. My mom would probably buy an SKS for me if I have the cash, but then I'd have to deal with him... :rolleyes:
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badmuggafugga

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2006, 12:30:01 am »

J, you're ahead of the game, far as I can see it.  Keep your brain brain switched on and your eyes open always, and keep your mouth shut when you need to.  I wish I had been at the level of understanding you are at now when I was fourteen.

BTW-- I'm curious about something-- do disaffected teenagers still listen to Dead Kennedys?
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Jguy101

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2006, 02:12:47 am »

...Dead Kennedys? As in John and Robert back from the dead? :ph34r:
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badmuggafugga

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2006, 03:55:32 am »

You need a history lesson or two, kid.   :laugh:

Not the Massachusetts dead Kennedys, the San Francisco "Dead Kennedys." 

Google is your friend, wink wink nudge nudge.

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"Bad guys who wear badges and judges' robes and have all the other people who wear badges and judges' robes on their side, can take your toys and no one will help you get them back!"

Every year without knowing it I have passed the day
When the last fires will wave to me
And the silence will set out
Tireless traveler
Like the beam of a lightless star

Jguy101

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2006, 09:57:28 am »

Figured it might be a ban, but I wasn't sure. They don't really seem like my style; I'm a bit of a Bach fanatic, although I do like some oldies/classic rock.
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Rarick

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 02:11:20 pm »

 :sign10:  That's too good!  What classic rock by the way?  Talk about pushing the funny button!
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Jguy101

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2006, 03:43:44 pm »

A little Chicago, The Eagles, The Beatles, maybe some other miscellaneous stuff...
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badmuggafugga

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Re: In the closet?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2006, 10:53:18 pm »

Chicago?   :puke:   Two references in two threads tonight?  You gotta be kidding me, dude. 

You're perty switched-on for a fourteen year-old, but trust me-- if I listened to Chicago I'd be in the closet, too.   :ph34r:  Would I offend if I said you seem like a prime candidate for a pedantic Rush fan?   ^_^

That being said, the Eagles are great, especially for Linda Ronstadt's cocaine-scented backing band.  And the Beatles are great.  Even Weird Al has his place.  But Pink Floyd is the Cadillac of intelligent dork-boy rock.  Just skip over the Yes and the ELO and the Emerson, Lake and Palmer and go straight for the Pink Floyd.  If you're on a 70's nostalgia kick, I'd also recommend some Thin Lizzy-- it's more rock than high-flung concept, though both elements are present, so it might be a good bridge between this stuff you're listening to now and the AC/DC you need to be listening to now.  Trust me when I say this: rock and roll is more about the loins than it is the brain.  Brainy rock is possible, but LOINS MUST COME FIRST.  There's nothing more pathetic than someone who discovers this at twenty-five when they should've known it ten years before.  The "prematurely adultified" to "too-oldly juveniled" transition ain't pretty.  It's like a divorcee shopping at Hot Topic. 

But on the off chance you're really a fifty year-old in a pubescent body, may I also in all seriousness recommend J.J. Cale (he's the guy that Eric Clapton twit stole as much as or more than from Robert Johnson); Steely Dan (go for Can't Buy A Thrill, Countdown To Ecstasy, and Pretzel Logic before anything else); and anything Gram Parsons was involved with (if you can handle a little twang, which by any means you ought to since you brought up the Eagles . . . in fact, Parsons was pretty much the guy who made the Eagles' commercial viability possible, too bad he was dead by then).

And by the way-- in all seriousness-- you get beaucoup points for having never mentioned any of that Sum 41/Blink 182/Faggot 69/Dumbass 123/(Random word) (Random number) imitation artificially-flavored "punk" they flog on the radio these days.  That naming convention has got to go.

Feel like I shouls apologize for my long windedness, 'guy101.  If it seems like I'm busting your balls, it's because you remind me a little of my insufficiently immature immaturity.  I'm much happier with the level of conscious immaturity I've earned now that I'm all mature and shit.    :mellow:

« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 10:57:19 pm by badmuggafugga »
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"Bad guys who wear badges and judges' robes and have all the other people who wear badges and judges' robes on their side, can take your toys and no one will help you get them back!"

Every year without knowing it I have passed the day
When the last fires will wave to me
And the silence will set out
Tireless traveler
Like the beam of a lightless star
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