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Activism Tactics => The Mole => Topic started by: Misfit on April 01, 2005, 02:04:02 am

Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Misfit on April 01, 2005, 02:04:02 am
For those fellow Moles still living in the system and filing tax returns, I am proud to say that Mr. Misfit and I have successfully slid in under the federal and state tax threshold and are paying NO, NADDA, NEIN taxes for 2004! (Other than the inescapable Social Security tax.) Yeah, we really made that little this past year.

Now, I'm off to write my cookbook 1001 Bean Recipes (btw, we've discovered that Pinto beans are much more digestable than some other varieties) and wait for our confiscated money to come back to us.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Junker on April 01, 2005, 06:53:15 am
Congrats on no taxes, but also condolences on low income. And best of luck for all your future undertakings for jobs, for gulching, or whatever you decide.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Delos on April 01, 2005, 08:08:45 am

Speaking of confiscated earnings, the last time I filed, a long time ago, I filled in the "amount due for return" line with the same amount that I filled in the "amount withheld" line.

They sent me the whole works except for 60 something bux they said they were going to hold on to while they thought about my form!

 :o  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Junker on April 01, 2005, 08:57:36 am
They said they can think or was that just a reply form?  :lol:  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on April 01, 2005, 09:34:19 am
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They said they can think or was that just a reply form?  :lol:
Nahhhh, it's a form letter. Most likely has a number on it for what form letter it is. Thinking is too taxing for them. I've gotcher 1040 right here (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/fingers/fing37.gif)

Misfit. I second Junker with the caveat that it reaaaalllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy pisses me off that folks have to "create poverty" in order to avoid the taxman.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on April 02, 2005, 01:37:35 am
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pisses me off that folks have to "create poverty" in order to avoid the taxman.


Think of it more as cutting off the enemies supply lines*grin*
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: dervish on April 03, 2005, 08:11:48 am
Yet people say the only reason people won't pay taxes is because they're selfish bastards who want all their own money.  Even when they choose poverty.  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on April 03, 2005, 09:51:19 am
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pisses me off that folks have to "create poverty" in order to avoid the taxman.


Think of it more as cutting off the enemies supply lines*grin*
I have to really twist things to see it that way. And I sure can't *grin* about it. Cutting your own supply lines to cut the enemies suppy lines just somehow does not seem to compute.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Joel on April 03, 2005, 10:59:28 am
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I have to really twist things to see it that way. And I sure can't *grin* about it. Cutting your own supply lines to cut the enemies suppy lines just somehow does not seem to compute.
TANSTAAFL.

I've noticed that many freedom-loving people have developed such a distaste for the notion of being tagged and inventoried like sheep, periodically rounded up and fleeced, that they'll scour their own lives if that's what it takes to keep it to a minimum.  It's the equivalent of a landowner burning his own crops to keep them out of an enemy's hands.  Done with a tear in your eye, perhaps.  But done with a will.

Some things, including self respect, are worth a poverty income.  It's all a question of what you value.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Claire on April 04, 2005, 10:34:06 am
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Some things, including self respect, are worth a poverty income.  It's all a question of what you value.
Amen, John DeWitt.

I also must add (though I know I've said it before) that although it's a very sad thing that anyone is compelled to make less money in order to be true to oneself, there can also be opportunity in making less.

You discover things about yourself. You discover that some of the possessions, some aspects of the lifestyle of money-making weren't as important to you as you thought they were. You discover simple, uncomplicated joys.

Yeah ... and you discover the virtues of pinto beans, as well. (Sorry, Misfit, I know your poverty hasn't been voluntary, and that's a bitch.)

I don't advocate voluntary poverty or voluntary simplicity for everyone. Just saying that the choice is far less onerous and far more wondrous than it seems from outside.

David Gross (a TCF member) has written eloquently about tax resistance through reduced income (http://www.sniggle.net/Experiment/).
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on April 04, 2005, 12:43:06 pm
I understand the points about the poverty thing and all the opportunities that might crop up and starving the enemy.
There are more paths to self respect than choosing poverty. I would personally rather choose affluence (unfortunately, I ain't got it) and fight the bastards to keep what's mine. There is also self respect in that.
I also notice, on most web pages I visit (let's use The Libertarian Enterprise as an example) that those who run the sites and provide the articles, etc., are constantly asking for money to keep the fight going. If all their readers are choosing poverty to spite the fucking JBT assholes and all the other rat bastards who think what's yours is theirs, who is going to help out these web 'zines with funding?
I have bought all of Claire's books, all of Vin's books and many of L. Neil's books. I can't do that with poverty.
How do you buy arms and ammo?
In the guns topic there is a thread on what would you do with 1000 bux. Poverty does not provide 1000 bux.
I salute all who choose that route. I would much rather have Bill Gates' bank account and take these mofos on with my own friggin' army. Of course, that ain't gonna happen, either.
I would like to be able to purchase a large chunk of land (or many large chunks in different locations).
I know that some who choose "poverty" are actually affluent in fact, but in poverty on paper. That's ideal. That also takes resources to accomplish. Not just the resources of being affluent, but the resources to be able to move that affluence behind the Wizard's curtain.

It really is a tough situation. I simply despise all government intervention. Why, when starting or running a business, should the effects of government intervention have to be taken into account when making business decisions? How much resources of time and money are simply pissed away factoring these intrusions? How many CPAs and lawyers could this country do without if they weren't needed as prohpylactics against government? Why should any of us have to factor 'being tagged and inventoried like sheep, periodically rounded up and fleeced," into our day to day life decisions? [For anyone who thinks I am ignorant or naive, these should be obvious rhetorical questions]

The closer it gets to April 15, and the more I see the usual charade of compliance games going on, the more my ire is raised.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on April 04, 2005, 12:57:06 pm
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I know that some who choose "poverty" are actually affluent in fact, but in poverty on paper. That's ideal.
I noticed that this is in the Mole topic. My discussion above is more appropriate for the money and taxation topic. This discussion would be more appropriate, I think, in the Ghost topic. Mole v IRS would more aptly be regarding those who worked within the IRS or state taxing departments to sab  O  tage their collection efforts. :ph34r:  Therefore, most likely, very little discussion would go on in this area. :P  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Claire on April 04, 2005, 01:13:32 pm
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I would personally rather choose affluence (unfortunately, I ain't got it) and fight the bastards to keep what's mine. There is also self respect in that.

 
I sure can't disagree with that.

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I also notice, on most web pages I visit (let's use The Libertarian Enterprise as an example) that those who run the sites and provide the articles, etc., are constantly asking for money to keep the fight going. If all their readers are choosing poverty to spite the fucking JBT assholes and all the other rat bastards who think what's yours is theirs, who is going to help out these web 'zines with funding?

And to a great extent, I agree with that point, too. The scruffy little Agitators and Ghosts work together with (usually) more prosperous Moles in the same cause. If all TCRers and LRT Round Tablers were poor, old Hunter (for instance) might still be in jail, framed as the Ohio highway sniper.

However, judging by the donations that come in to clairewolfe.com, I see almost no connection between affluence and willlingness to support freedom-oriented web sites. Some people in really difficult circumstances contribute. Others who are quite affluent don't. Our most generous donor makes a good, but not spectacular, living. Our next most generous is living through a time of hard sacrifices, and the money he sends represents a very big deal to him. People in extreme poverty have sent $5 bills. Several millionaires who regularly read the blog or TCF have given zip.

I don't know the reasons and in a sense it doesn't matter. But sometimes a person who's more affluent on paper is actually deep in debt. Or simply doesn't like the seeming "something for nothing" attitudes of all us little weblings begging for his money. (I was once part of the entourage of a super-wealthy philanthropist, and the way that charities picked on him like hungry vultures then complained when he "only" gave them $10k or $50k turned me off forever to supporting most conventional/institutional charities.)

OTOH, some far less affluent "little guys," feeling the financial pinch themselves, and already attuned to making sacrifices, go out of their way to be generous to others. It's even possible that some of the low-income folk have more ready cash than some of the more affluent because they're debt-free and don't spend much on luxuries.

Not judging; just noting that affluence isn't a good predictor of financial freedom support. I'm all for everybody getting what $$ they want and doing with it what most pleases them. I'm grateful to you for buying my books. I'm grateful to those who give, whether it's financially easy or hard for them, because they all have freedom in their hearts.

Claire
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: debeez on April 04, 2005, 02:16:48 pm
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Yet people say the only reason people won't pay taxes is because they're selfish bastards who want all their own money.

Selfish bastard...that's me.  Or at least it would be me if I wasn't so damned afraid of losing what I've got by not paying taxes.  But I am still a selfish bastard, because I truly believe that every penny of that money I have earned belongs to me and no one else.

For me, it's simple.  NO ONE, not the government, not my family, not my friends, have the right to take what I've got.  What I give voluntarily, that's a gift.  And then when it comes to taxes, it's involuntary but with an eye on the bigger picture.  Why lose my home, or possibly my freedom, in exchange for not paying taxes?

It isn't a decision I am completely comfortable with, but it's one I've made, and I'll stick with it until I find a way to get away with better...as in paying little or no taxes.  What I would give to find myself a cash only business that I could hide my income in!

To me, paying taxes is syonymous with giving cash to a beggar on the street corner...I simply don't trust them to make the right decisions.  What are the right decisions for my money?  The ones that I make.  In the end, bad or good decision, I will have made it, and I alone am culpable for the outcome.  

In my mind it comes down to this--personal responsibility.  I believe that I answer to myself, and no other.  And I should be responsible for how every penny of my money is spent.  Otherwise, how am I to know it's being done properly?

Some examples:
It seems that we pay a lot of taxes towards our roads around here.  And yet, Missouri roads are some of the worst in the country.  So where the hell is the money going?

We also have a Missouri lottery, as well as legal casinos (the "boats").  Both of these are supposed to bring record amounts of funding to our schools and "help our children".  Our children and schools have been "helped" so much by the advent of the lottery and casinos that Kansas City lost its federal funding several years ago due to low test scores and a shortage of teachers. We also pay ever-increasing amounts of taxes.  Every local election has more referendums for additional property taxes to pay for new schools...and the average test scores just keep sliding lower.

Let me keep my money, and I'll educate my child on my own dime (kind of like I do already), and the government and their taxes can take a hike.  Something tells me I'd be living a lot better than I am now.

 
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: byron on April 04, 2005, 02:42:14 pm
debeez...

...gives some good examples of the same state tax issues, for the way taxes are brought in to the coffers,  yet never seem to be enough. Those examples are probably typical all across the country. Not a day goes by where the local news story is "because of the increased population, there are increased cars on the road, and therefore taxes must increase to pay for new roads, and more toll roads are in the future." (also common are making toll roads out of already built and paid for roads?) Where does the money go? If population is increasing, isn't the tax revenue increasing automatically as well? And as taxes increase, quality decreases....because government can't run a thing effectively. Nothing new. ........ samo crap with any other of the examples, lottery proceeds, property tax referendums, etc...never makes sense as to why they must have more from the fruits of our labor. Yet there is never a shortage of good citizen idiots being interviewed on TV saying how they don't mind paying extra just so they can have more roads, more schools, and even agreeing that paying more for garbage pk-up when it is cut to one-day-week instead of two is a good thing. Baffling shit to watch the majority's thought processes....they never get it...the light never comes on in their bulb.  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Silver on April 04, 2005, 02:50:49 pm
nevermind
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: penguinsscareme on April 04, 2005, 07:31:36 pm
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also common are making toll roads out of already built and paid for roads
Like the Mass Pike which was built in the '50's and was only supposed to be a toll road until it was paid for...only it's still a toll road, and in fact the tolls have increased over the years.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Misfit on April 04, 2005, 10:17:09 pm
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I know that some who choose "poverty" are actually affluent in fact, but in poverty on paper. That's ideal.
I noticed that this is in the Mole topic. My discussion above is more appropriate for the money and taxation topic. This discussion would be more appropriate, I think, in the Ghost topic. Mole v IRS would more aptly be regarding those who worked within the IRS or state taxing departments to sab  O  tage their collection efforts. :ph34r:  Therefore, most likely, very little discussion would go on in this area. :P
In considering what an Agitator, a Ghost and a Mole would do at tax time...An Agitator would tell the IRS why they don't have to pay, a Ghost wouldn't file and a Mole would file, but creatively....

The Mole Forum says "How to stay sane and effective while remaining within the system." Filing taxes is remaining in the system. I didn't see anything describing it as becoming a covert agent inside the IRS.


As Claire mentioned, my financial circumstances haven't been voluntary, just unfortunate as of late. We only brought in an income in the last five months of 2004. We did have a good amount of savings that we tapped into last year, but that wasn't income. I don't think we were living poor, just a little more frugal than most people. I imagine we'll do better this year...hopefully.
 
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: debeez on April 05, 2005, 08:59:22 am
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a Ghost wouldn't file and a Mole would file, but creatively....

And boy oh boy, do I try to be creative.  Anything to save a dollar here, there or anywhere.  Charitable donations help big time on our tax returns...

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I don't think we were living poor, just a little more frugal than most people.

It's all about getting by, and living as best you can on what you have.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: sagas4 on April 05, 2005, 11:30:09 am
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Well,  I own and run a small business, and happen to know the answers to those questions. 

This is a small professional services business.  The numbers will be different for manufacturing or other kinds of business.

The government collects, either directly or via mandated purchases of things like pension bonds or CPA time, about 67% of all revenues coming into the firm.  I've been keeping track for 5 years now, in good years and lean ones, and this fraction is about constant.  The marginal take, the cut on the last dollar, is closer to 75%.

Once the business is set up and running, with no intentional violations or provocations of the government, about 30% of the firm's manpower is devoted to tending to government stuff.  That's on top of the 67% cash take.

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How many CPAs and lawyers could this country do without if they weren't needed as prohpylactics against government?
Um, let me count here... All of them, I think.

Peace,

Silver
Silver,

Let's see here. Are you saying you are Uncompensated, Non-Bonded, Not Under Oath, and 67% of the cash is public funds upon which you spend 30% of your time dealing with?

Who's responsibility is it to Lay and COLLECT Taxes anyway? (If one could even begin to believe that an unsigned, undelivered, unwitnessed document, written 200 years ago by a bunch of men that are long dead can have any binding effect upon those now living today anyway without the threat of a firearm pointed at your head).  

Well if they want us to do it we should start sending them a bill for compensation for our time spent doing their work and I think that at a rate of 250.00 FRN's per hour for each man or woman doing their "collection" work for them billed directly to the jokers that call themselve congress would only be fair.  :P

P.S. If they are taking 67% and you spend 30% of your time would that mean that over 97% of your resources are spent on non-productive activities? And when the Marginal rate is 75% that you are operating a -5% resource level.  :blink:

(I know you can't really add the cash and personnel percentages together like that and get a good number but It does illustrate the problem eh?)
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Silver on April 05, 2005, 06:36:39 pm
nevermind
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on April 05, 2005, 11:46:01 pm
Silver,

If things are really that rough then why bother?
 
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Bill St. Clair on April 09, 2005, 01:02:45 pm
Ugh. I just filled out New York State and Fedgov tax forms. Computed the numbers quite a while back in Excel, but it's more real written on paper with a pen. Still left to do: make copies, write check to fedgoons, curse, apply postage, mail.

I feel like shooting something. Tomorrow for sure...
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on April 09, 2005, 04:49:42 pm
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Ugh. I just filled out New York State and Fedgov tax forms. Computed the numbers quite a while back in Excel, but it's more real written on paper with a pen. Still left to do: make copies, write check to fedgoons, curse, apply postage, mail.

I feel like shooting something. Tomorrow for sure...
Funny how tax forms can make you feel that way...

Hey,  if wherever they have those forms has a bunch of extra ones afterwards,  they might make good targets?  :-)
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: woodtramp on April 11, 2005, 12:59:56 pm
I've actually taken some 1040's and put a red circle on them and took them to the local range for a little fun.It certainly got a chuckle and a overall positive response.I highly recommend people do this especially around this time of year.I'd like to see this idea catch on big time.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Alton Speers on April 16, 2005, 10:11:39 am
1040 targets! I love it! Great idea! Might be worth considering other government forms from other agencies...a 4473 comes to mind.

Now that this year's "tax season" has passed, perhaps it's time to explore taxes. To disengage totally or to withdraw to some distance from the tax system does require premeditation.

If you are an emplyeee, taxes are automatically withheld from your paycheck. There are ways that you can minimize this amount by redoing the information that you provide on your W-4 forms. The W-4 forms are the basis of the W-2 forms.

Amazingly, you will discover that Federal Income Tax Withholding is, in many cases, an amount that is less than the Social Security withholding.

On top of the soc sec withholding for many people there is also a State Income Tax withholding and a Local and/or a county/city tax withholding. These last three, soc sec, state and local, are in total more than the amount withheld for federal taxes.

In short, as long as you remain an employee the hard truth is that you will NOT have much of an opportunity to avoid taxes. Whether you file or not is another matter.

Filing a tax return is really unnecessary unless you want a refund of a portion of the money stolen for income tax. The process pretty much goes as follows:
You work for your employer for a wage or salary
Your employer totals up your pay.
From the amount of pay the employer looks at the info you provided on your form W-4 and compares that info to the Withholding tables provided by the IRS. Those tables tell the employer how much money should be stolen (withheld) from you. Money which is then deposited in a special bank account.
At the end of every quarter (3 calendar months starting generally in January) your employer must file a 941(?) Report indicating how much money was deposited in the special bank account which tells the federal government to which individual taxpayers this money is credited.
This is done throughout the year.
At the end of the year the employer must provide you with a form W-2 indicating all the money stolen (withheld) from your pay over the course of the year and to which government agencies those moneys were sent.
In short, the federal income tax, soc sec tax, state and local taxes have already been paid and in most cases already spent.
Now you must file a return with the various governments to see if they have stolen enough. If they have stolen too much you are entitled to a return of the overage. If they haven't stolen enough then must make up the difference. Filing also ensures your compliance and marks your place in the flock. Failure to file means that you are self-willed. Not a team player. Not in compliance. You will be targeted for a full sheep dip and complete shearing. The governments still have all the money taken from you but you are not saying thank you. This is bad and the government will seek to correct your willfulness. Failure to file does NOT deny the government any funds. It just upsets them no end that you are being defiant.

Self-employed employers have it much worse than you. They get to pay even more taxes than the employee. They get to do much more paperwork than you do. They get to file quarterly. They also get to write an actual check to the government which makes a real big hole in their bank account. Yes, employers do get to deduct business expenses like paper clips, computers and even your wages and the costs of your benefits like health insurance. However, this means that there must be enough business to pay for all this stuff first because they can't deduct costs unless and until those costs have already been paid. This also makes a big hole in the employers bank account. If there's not enough business then this means fewer emplyees, fewer benefits, lower wages and fewer taxes being paid. The government doesn't like this but it is more than willing to steal all money available to be stolen. The success of the business is not the concern of the government. The government's only interest is the money it can steal.

Corporate employers are a different kind of beast. The owners are the stockholders. The Chairman of the Board, the CEO, CFO, COO and all the vice-presidents, directors, managers and anyone else with a white collar are NOT the owners UNLESS they own some of the stock of the company. They are merely agents. They are the servants of the corporation. They too, are employees just like you. The government looks at a corporation like it's a person. The government taxes the corporation just like a it's a person. The government taxes the corporation twice because it also taxes ALL of the shareholders for any profits they received from the corporation. This is called double-dipping. Governments like corporations because they can tax them twice. However, there are other characteristics of the government/corporate relationship that make governments do wierd things. We won't take the time to explore those wierd things here because there are way too many and they are way too wierd. Yes, even more wierd than calling theft legal by renaming it taxation.

To avoid taxation you must do things that the government, for it's convenience and purposes, calls illegal, criminal and immoral. They really want you to feel bad for not letting them steal your money. So bad in fact, that they are more than willing to put the hurt on you themselves. Yes, even up to the point of putting the muzzle of a firearm in your face. This is indeed risky business. It is very dangerous.

The easiest way to avoid taxes is to simply not work. No income = no income taxes. Simple indeed but, not very effective. Where I come from if you don't work, you don't eat. Not a very healthy choice and it doesn't add to the pleasure of life. Of course, one could always go on welfare. Used to be you could live rather well off of welfare doles. That's not true today. Welfare has been mangled to the point where one receives very little support and only for a limited time. It's good for a personal sabbatical but not much else.

There is one benefit of welfare that shouldn't be overlooked though and that is that it's a gateway to tax avoidance. Moral and ethical considerations aside, welfare is a great first stepping stone or jumping off point for tax avoidance. It's a way to drop through the cracks in system and disappear from sight. Once through the system a person can seek to live in any way one can manage without re-appearing in the system. You can also become a ghost. Change identities and become anyone you want...except yourself. Maybe practical for some but not for everyone.

If you choose to remain yourself, that is to keep your real identity, your options are very limited. Working only for cash, never, ever divulging your soc sec number. You can't accept any checks no matter how good or how big they may be. You must avoid stops by cops at all costs. When all is said and done you severely limit your own freedom.

Another alternative is to work out a tolerable compromise. Take on a part-time job which keeps you in the tax system and let the government steal the fruits of your labor. During the time when you're not working for your employer(s) you can stay busy making real income (cash) by working the underground economy. Grey and Black markets never die. They never go away. Some are very much out in the open. Ebay is a good example. Flea markets, swap meets, garage sales, collectibles and antiques shows, in fact most any service or products can be taken to the grey and black markets and sold for cash. Starving artists? Don't believe it. Ever wonder about the war on cash? It's to kill these grey and black markets. For the perceptive it's also a good reason to work on developing skills in barter and networking markets. It's also another good reason to start looking into alternative currencies. No one can eat dollars or Euros or gold or silver. Neither can you eat lumber or concrete or steel. Yet these are the things that people need, want, use and have to trade. How do you turn a concrete block into a loaf of bread? Is it a direct exchange? Can you accept a pallet of concrete blocks and turn those into a month's supply of food? Could you do it in less than 10 exchanges? Can you turn 500# of A2 tool steel into silver or gold? Can you do it in less than 10 exchanges? Are you currently turning your dollars into silver and gold or other easily exchangable goods? If not, why not?

There's lots of ways to exploit the current systems for your benefit. There are lots of ways to drop below radar right now. And now is a good time. Being from an agricultural background and area I am well acquainted with the old saying, "Make hay while the sun shines". Today the sun shines though somewhat dimly. Now is a good time to develop bartering skills and to learn to network markets. No one knows what the economy is going to do. Whatever it is going to do will not be good. despite all the propaganda the fed and the central government cannot endlessly defy basic economic rules without penalty. ALL fiat currencies throughout ALL of history have failed. the dollar will be no exception. Neither will the Euro, the yen, the yuan or any other fiat currency. Another fact is that over-reaching governments ALWAYS fail. The US government will not be an exception. People cannot eat dollars. people cannot wear dollars. People cannot build dollar huts to live in. People need food. People need material for clothing. people need building supplies to build shelter to live in. Dollars or other currencies, stocks, bonds, derviatives, puts, calls and other financial instruments are not the materials needed. Yes, for now they can be used to obtain the materials needed. When they lose their value (and they WILL lose their value) they won't even be suitable for use as toilet paper. What then? Now is the time to make hay while the sun shines. Learn the ropes and if you can, stockpile useful goods for trading.

Another alternative to taxation is becoming another Larken Rose or Irwin Schiff. Open resistance is risky as these men have demonstrated. You could also just refuse to comply. That too, also has risks.

Of course, you could just accept the system and be compliant with the law.

Whatever you decide to do, at least for the moment there is a choice and you have the flexibility to choose whatever will work best with your situation, beliefs and abilities to act. However, like the TV commercials...Act Now! This is a limited time offer!

Alton
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Lightning on April 16, 2005, 10:34:57 am
Damn, Alton, what a fantastic post.  I love this part in particular:
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Filing also ensures your compliance and marks your place in the flock. Failure to file means that you are self-willed. Not a team player. Not in compliance. You will be targeted for a full sheep dip and complete shearing.
Thanks for your thoughts.  I'm with you.  Buy all the gold, guns and trade items you can now, while you don't need quite so many fiat dollars to do so.  And find ways - extra hours at work, a second job, an underground business, a few wisely-chosen investments - to bring in more fiat dollars now, that you can turn into tangible worth while the sun still shines.

Oh, and pay off your debt now, dear friends (another reason for augmenting your FRN income ASAP), so you'll be ready to live on very little, perhaps just the income from your bartering/trading, when the need arises.

Bravissimo!   B)  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on April 16, 2005, 12:15:16 pm
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Another alternative to taxation is becoming another Larken Rose or Irwin Schiff. Open resistance is risky as these men have demonstrated. You could also just refuse to comply. That too, also has risks.
The risks in refusing to comply are miniscule in comparison to open resistance ala Schiff or Rose. They not only openly resist, they promote themselves. As did Al Thompson and Dick Simkanin.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: Alton Speers on April 16, 2005, 05:13:47 pm
Thank you Lightning! :)

Ragnar, good points! I must admit that I do admire their bravery and tenacity, Unfortunately, I don't think just dealing with taxes is the answer. We need a broad spectrum governicide before those weeds take over the entire garden and ruin it. Roundup might have worked but the roots on these things are too deep. They just keep popping back up.

Alton
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on April 16, 2005, 10:01:27 pm
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Unfortunately, I don't think just dealing with taxes is the answer. We need a broad spectrum governicide before those weeds take over the entire garden and ruin it.
What you said. What Jim Davies (http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/davies/davies9.html) said - strikin' at the roots.  B)  
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: securitysix on April 17, 2005, 12:12:43 am
Quote
Filing also ensures your compliance and marks your place in the flock. Failure to file means that you are self-willed. Not a team player. Not in compliance. You will be targeted for a full sheep dip and complete shearing.

The problem with sheep is that the sheep dogs tend to get mixed in with them, and a proper sheep dog (think Great Pyrenees) is hard for a wolf to discern from the rest of the flock until it's too late.
Title: Paying Taxes
Post by: merlin419 on April 17, 2005, 03:05:34 pm
Very true securitysix, kind of like the German "Q" boat raiders. Looked like tramp steamers or neutral frieghters until you got close and sudden out comes the big guns. The flock with all thier fancy toys really stand out and deserve to be sheared. That's what all crooks look for isn't it?
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: DrillSgtK on September 02, 2005, 07:23:28 am
Here is an idea. help others avoid taxes.

I love to tip with cash. When I was a waiter I was told I had to report my tips...but only half. (I think my boss wanted to help us students out, he did pay us almost minmum wage and we got tips.)  Cash tips are easy to under-report. I asked about that recently and was told that most people pay with credit card/debit card and that the goverment now uses a precentage method for tips. They look at the charged meals, look at the number of total meals served, and then look at the charged tips to figure out how much cash tips you recived.

(100 meals served. 50 payed with card, tipping 15%. the goverment caculates 15% from 100 meals even if cash tips are only 10%)

You can help out by tipping more when paying with cash or better yet, when you pay with card, put 1% tip on it and put the rest out as cash.  I even leave a note for the server saying "this is your money, don't tell your boss, or the goverment. share it with the buss boy if that is the policy."  This will help lower the average tip figures, but still give the nice server what they have earned.

Anyone got other ideas on how to avoid paying taxes?

Drill Sgt K
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Joel on September 02, 2005, 04:14:50 pm
I rent two bedrooms from a nice old guy here in town, and always pay cash.  He wuvs me.

Doesn't diminish the taxes I pay at all, but it does withhold a bit from the beast.  And I love the smile on his face, first of every month.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Claire on September 02, 2005, 11:51:06 pm
Re avoiding taxes in a legal and mole-ish way ... I've always wondered why more people don't choose to live in a no-income-tax state and shop across the border in a no-sales-tax state.

There are several of these combos: Wyoming/Montana and Washington/Oregon come to mind.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: purple kitty on September 03, 2005, 09:04:29 am
I hate taxes.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Shevek on September 04, 2005, 12:15:47 am
Regarding cash payments, I have been living a cash-based life for many years and even in today's stifled surveillance environment, I find that cash still does wonders to motivate people to do business with me. Sadly, the primary reason for that motivation is that most people are fed up with customers delaying their payments or not paying at all. To receive cash is "too good to be true" to many people these days.

Quote
Re avoiding taxes in a legal and mole-ish way ... I've always wondered why more people don't choose to live in a no-income-tax state and shop across the border in a no-sales-tax state.

There are several of these combos: Wyoming/Montana and Washington/Oregon come to mind.
For that reason (among many reasons) I seriously have thought about relocating, but I haven't got a clue how to sell my property without a %$#@ bank account, which I don't have and don't want. I don't know how to move---and more importantly, hide---that kind of money without a bank account. I'm open to suggestions!
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on September 04, 2005, 03:43:32 am
Re avoiding taxes in a legal and mole-ish way ... I've always wondered why more people don't choose to live in a no-income-tax state and shop across the border in a no-sales-tax state.

There are several of these combos: Wyoming/Montana and Washington/Oregon come to mind.

That's wild. That came up in conversation last Monday morning (the only time I see "other people") at work. People were asking how to pay less in taxes and I mentioned the Wyoming/Montana concept. Now, if I could only remember which has which tax, I'd be more than a dearth of information. (http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/crazy/1088.gif)
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Bill St. Clair on September 04, 2005, 04:50:15 am
That's wild. That came up in conversation last Monday morning (the only time I see "other people") at work. People were asking how to pay less in taxes and I mentioned the Wyoming/Montana concept. Now, if I could only remember which has which tax, I'd be more than a dearth of information.

Wyoming has no income tax and a 3% sales tax (last time I looked).
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Junker on September 04, 2005, 07:27:52 am
I don't know how to move---and more importantly, hide---that kind of money without a bank account. I'm open to suggestions!

Traditionally, gold. 10 avoirdupois lbs. = ~$70,000. Possibly have the FRNs transferred to your gold acct rather than a bank acct (thus converting simultaneously to gold) and have the gold delivered. Cost, anonymity, etc. all depend on which gold company you choose. And that is a research project in itself. Off hand, I'd look at Kitco-- non-bank, Canadian.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Shevek on September 04, 2005, 06:26:18 pm
Quote
Traditionally, gold. 10 avoirdupois lbs. = ~$70,000. Possibly have the FRNs transferred to your gold acct rather than a bank acct (thus converting simultaneously to gold) and have the gold delivered.
Interesting idea.

Are you implying that I could take a personal bank check for, say, $225,000, and deposit that check directly into a gold account? And there would be no paper trail? I did not mention in my previous post, but I have specific reasons for needing no paper trail (I need to let certain sleeping dogs remain sleeping---.)

If so, what is the spot price for such a transaction? IOW, after depositing the check into the gold account and converting to gold, and then re-converting the gold to FRNs, how much of the original $225,000 would remain? (Assuming the FRN-gold exchange price remains constant).

Do these gold dealers pay (convert the gold to FRNs) in cash or do they pay with another confounded check? I don't have a bank account and don't want one.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Claire on September 04, 2005, 10:11:33 pm
Wyoming has no income tax and a 3% sales tax (last time I looked).

Very close. Wyoming has no income tax and a 4% state sales tax. Counties can add up to 2% more, so sales tax varies around the state.

Montana has no sales tax, but does have an income tax and IMHO, fairly brutal property taxes for a Rocky Mtn. state.

Ditto, Washington has no income tax but has some of the highest sales taxes in the nation -- usually around 8%, depending on the county. Oregon has no sales tax but does have an income tax.

Oh, anybody considering WA should beware of the business and occupation tax, which WA uses to punish/milk businesses, including self-employed individuals. So effectively there is an income tax, though most residents don't pay it directly.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Ragnar The Testy on October 11, 2005, 03:14:56 pm
Re avoiding taxes in a legal and mole-ish way ... I've always wondered why more people don't choose to live in a no-income-tax state and shop across the border in a no-sales-tax state.

There are several of these combos: Wyoming/Montana and Washington/Oregon come to mind.


I've really been thinking about this one lately, Unfortunately, I kinda like my job, (In Oregon, The Fedgoon tax is almost nothing compared to the way Ore-groan fleeces it's flock). I've been meaning to look into this.... (so far, just rumor control) .... If Someone lives in Washington, Works in Ore-groan, is said someone still legally liable for Ore State Tax??? Does anyone know? If not, I'll post when I find out.

And once again.....I am sooooooooo glad I stumbled onto "101 things to do........" And found this site  :mellow:

Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: weskipschool on October 17, 2005, 08:44:08 pm
Quote
If Someone lives in Washington, Works in Ore-groan, is said someone still legally liable for Ore State Tax???

Yes.



Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Dave Polaschek on October 18, 2005, 09:31:19 am
If Someone lives in Washington, Works in Ore-groan, is said someone still legally liable for Ore State Tax???

It depends. Here's how it was explained to me:

State income tax is charged in the state in which you reside.
Unemployment insurance is charged in the state in which you work.
Some states also charge income tax based on where your employer is legally located, but those are far fewer than many  people (and state bureacracies) think.

Here in MN, I had an employee who lived in WI. So when my employee was working in MN, he was paying MN UI, and WI income tax. When he worked for less clueful employers, he was usually charged MN income tax, and at the end of the year he would have to apply to MN for a refund, and then send a big check off to WI.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: weskipschool on October 18, 2005, 08:15:28 pm
Quote
Quote
If Someone lives in Washington, Works in Ore-groan, is said someone still legally liable for Ore State Tax???

It depends....

According to the Oregon Dept of Revenue:

- Oregon taxes nonresidents on Oregon-source income (wages, monies earned in Oregon, income from the sale of Oregon property, etc.).

- If you live outside Oregon (such as in, say, Washington), work for an Oregon employer, and perform work for that employer in Oregon, you are liable for Oregon personal income tax.

- If you live outside Oregon, work for an Oregon employer, and perform some of your work inside Oregon and some of it outside Oregon, you are liable for Oregon PIT only on wages earned for work performed within Oregon.

- An Oregon employer is any person or organization for whom a worker performs a service as an employee within Oregon.

- Oregon employers, whether domiciled within Oregon or not, must withhold tax from all wages earned by nonresident employees for services performed in Oregon [unless the earnings for the year 2004 will be $1,670 or less].

- Nonresident employees earning more than $1,670 in Oregon income [in 2004] are required to file an Oregon nonresident tax return.

- Self-employed individuals (including independent contractors) who live outside Oregon but perform work in Oregon for which they receive payment are liable for applicable Oregon income and/or business taxes.

- You may be able to claim a credit for income tax paid to another state on income also taxed by Oregon.

I believe that in Oregon local governments may also levy income and business taxes.

As is the case with all tax laws, there are copious exceptions to the rules on liability and withholding (e.g., interstate transportation wages, seasonal farm wages, etc.).

By the way, if anyone is reading this who is a WA resident and pays OR income tax, Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Rep. Brian Baird (D-WA) feel your pain:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002186444_oregontax22m.html

NB: The above is to the best of my knowledge and casual research, but I am not an accountant, lawyer, or financial planner, or even that great a proof-reader of my own typing.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on October 18, 2005, 10:51:42 pm
- Oregon employers, whether domiciled within Oregon or not, must withhold tax from all wages earned by nonresident employees for services performed in Oregon [unless the earnings for the year 2004 will be $1,670 or less].

Where the heck do they come up with these numbers?

Earlier tonight I had the local news on the tube,  and the politicians in Harrisburg were making some noises about raising the minimum wage.  In that context they were calling $15,000 "the poverty line".  So if you make less than that and they still take some of it away from you,  does that mean that they're forcing you deeper into poverty?

I may just have to look into what that number is around here,  and write a letter or something.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Alton Speers on October 20, 2005, 09:46:19 am
- Oregon employers, whether domiciled within Oregon or not, must withhold tax from all wages earned by nonresident employees for services performed in Oregon [unless the earnings for the year 2004 will be $1,670 or less].

Where the heck do they come up with these numbers?

Earlier tonight I had the local news on the tube,  and the politicians in Harrisburg were making some noises about raising the minimum wage.  In that context they were calling $15,000 "the poverty line".  So if you make less than that and they still take some of it away from you,  does that mean that they're forcing you deeper into poverty?

I may just have to look into what that number is around here,  and write a letter or something.


Ah! Thinking like a politician is the key to understanding this dilemma. It does not matter if the government withholds taxes from you and forces you below their definition of the poverty line. Why? Because when, as a good sheepizen, you file your tax forms with the government, you will be entitled to a refund of the money withheld from you so that at the end of the year you are still over the poverty line. It doesn't matter if your bills need to be paid now. What matters is that the state's bills need to be paid now and you need to be kept in line. You "give" the the government an interest-free loan and at the end of the year they give you back whatever portion of the principle they think is fair, of course, without any interest.

Now that you know how the politicians think you need to be thankful that they have provided you with such a swell state to live in and a great way to stay above the poverty line. Gotta love the wonders of democracy. Not only do you get bent but, you are also expected to be thankful for the opportunity...or at least acquiescent. They have ways to help you be acquiescent. In return, you get to do the same next year and the next and the next and so on.

Alton
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: monday on October 20, 2005, 02:53:28 pm
debeez...

...gives some good examples of the same state tax issues, for the way taxes are brought in to the coffers,  yet never seem to be enough. Those examples are probably typical all across the country. Not a day goes by where the local news story is "because of the increased population, there are increased cars on the road, and therefore taxes must increase to pay for new roads, and more toll roads are in the future." (also common are making toll roads out of already built and paid for roads?) Where does the money go? If population is increasing, isn't the tax revenue increasing automatically as well? And as taxes increase, quality decreases....because government can't run a thing effectively. Nothing new. ........ samo crap with any other of the examples, lottery proceeds, property tax referendums, etc...never makes sense as to why they must have more from the fruits of our labor. Yet there is never a shortage of good citizen idiots being interviewed on TV saying how they don't mind paying extra just so they can have more roads, more schools, and even agreeing that paying more for garbage pk-up when it is cut to one-day-week instead of two is a good thing. Baffling shit to watch the majority's thought processes....they never get it...the light never comes on in their bulb.  
This is very true,but your average american has not been trained to think.In fact they dont want to think and that will drag the rest of us down.When more people get past the goverment brainwashing will change for the good happen.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Delos on October 20, 2005, 10:55:40 pm

To whom it may concern (and the original poster): Does the state own you, or do you own yourself?


I have paid no federal or state income tax since 1980.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on October 21, 2005, 12:03:33 am
I have paid no federal or state income tax since 1980.

How to manage that with all those employers and other folks eager to help the state and the feds in their theft isn't as clear to me as it might be.  Care to elaborate on some ways that might be accomplished?
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Delos on October 22, 2005, 11:04:39 pm
I have paid no federal or state income tax since 1980.

How to manage that with all those employers and other folks eager to help the state and the feds in their theft isn't as clear to me as it might be. Care to elaborate on some ways that might be accomplished?



If you are not working for cash, then it would behoove you to take a closer look at a withholding certificate (W4?). Only you can change the amount of withholding extracted by your employer. After you eliminate the theft of your wages, then it simply a matter of refraining to send the criminals a check for a mendacious tax bill.

I would have thought this was obvious to someone as apparently well read as yourself!
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on October 22, 2005, 11:41:02 pm
I have paid no federal or state income tax since 1980.

How to manage that with all those employers and other folks eager to help the state and the feds in their theft isn't as clear to me as it might be.� Care to elaborate on some ways that might be accomplished?



If you are not working for cash, then it would behoove you to take a closer look at a withholding certificate (W4?). Only you can change the amount of withholding extracted by your employer. After you eliminate the theft of your wages, then it simply a matter of refraining to send the criminals a check for a mendacious tax bill.

I would have thought this was obvious to someone as apparently well read as yourself!

That takes care of the feds,  but not the FICA,  state,  UI, county,  or local taxes,  unfortunately.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Delos on October 23, 2005, 12:13:05 pm
I have paid no federal or state income tax since 1980.

How to manage that with all those employers and other folks eager to help the state and the feds in their theft isn't as clear to me as it might be.� Care to elaborate on some ways that might be accomplished?



If you are not working for cash, then it would behoove you to take a closer look at a withholding certificate (W4?). Only you can change the amount of withholding extracted by your employer. After you eliminate the theft of your wages, then it simply a matter of refraining to send the criminals a check for a mendacious tax bill.

I would have thought this was obvious to someone as apparently well read as yourself!

That takes care of the feds, but not the FICA, state, UI, county, or local taxes, unfortunately.



I said state or federal. In this state at least, the federal withholding certificate dictates the action of the state. Unfortunately, socialist insecurity and medicaide are still deducted from my paycheck.

Here, thankfully, there are currently no county or local taxes deducted from paychecks.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: thistle on November 05, 2005, 02:32:12 pm
Quote
If you are not working for cash, then it would behoove you to take a closer look at a withholding certificate (W4?). Only you can change the amount of withholding extracted by your employer. After you eliminate the theft of your wages, then it simply a matter of refraining to send the criminals a check for a mendacious tax bill.

Marking one's self exempt on the W-4 might entail perjury. Not sending the check would result in many other charges. Delos, how do you shield yourself from forfeitures and arrest?

I could conceivably shield some of my assets from forfeiture but certainly not all. I could even keep the location of my home from their knowledge, but they would still know where I work.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: dogsledder54 on November 05, 2005, 05:10:44 pm
I hate being robbed. I can't eliminate it, but I minimize it.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Ragnar The Testy on November 08, 2005, 12:13:23 am
Thanks weskipschool,

And bummer for me....where to go, where to go.....???
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: natewill on March 20, 2006, 10:09:32 am
This is more of an agitator response, but why are you all filing taxes?  I earn w-2 income, but haven't filed in a couple of years.  Anyone heard of Joe Bannister or Bill Conklin, or half a dozen others that don't pop into my head at the moment.  Most of these people question our liability for the income tax.  I have read 26 CFR several times, and every tax listed specifically points out who is liable for each tax in addition to what is being taxed, except one.  The income tax does not say who is liable.

I don't care if you believe me or not.  Do some research.  I'm just surprised that nobody else has mentioned it.  Flame Away!
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Joel on March 20, 2006, 10:19:44 am
Quote
I have read 26 CFR several times, and every tax listed specifically points out who is liable for each tax in addition to what is being taxed, except one.  The income tax does not say who is liable.

Natewill, that may be as true as can be, but it's completely irrelevant to the situation on the ground.  ATF has its own freekin' courts; by remaining as vague as it is the code can be interpreted in any way desired by those who control the court.  It simply doesn't matter what 26 CFR says or doesn't say; what matters is what the guys with the goons say.  And they'll say "pay up," every time they're asked.

Quote
why are you all filing taxes?
  That's a rational question for a person like me to ask myself; I have but one dependent and no property.  Thus little to lose but my self-esteem, and I've grown fond of my self-esteem.  But I've no right to ask it of others.  When I was a family man with people who depended on me, I gritted my teeth and filed them papers.  Didn't mean I didn't love freedom, just that I had a lot to lose.  Lots and lots of people are in that position; be careful about throwing stones.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: natewill on March 20, 2006, 10:22:02 am
I'm not throwing stones, I'm asking questions.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Lightning on March 20, 2006, 10:45:18 am
Natewill, the question you raise has been discussed at length (https://erte.hmdnsgroup.com/~tcftalk/clairefiles/index.php?topic=4629.0) elsewhere on TCF, by people in the beast's line of sight, if you're interested in their thoughts and experiences.

I'm wrestling with some interesting facets of this issue myself at the moment.   :ph34r:

JDW has a point - the powers that be only consistently adhere to the law when it's favorable to their side.

Edited to add:  Thanks, natewill, by the way, for bumping this thread up to the top.  It's got some good discussion that I'm glad to see again.

Now, you say you earn W-2 income but haven't filed.  Are you okay with just letting them have the money they withheld from your pay?  Did you take steps to minimize the amount of withholding?
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Scarmiglione' on March 20, 2006, 11:00:06 am
I have a wife and children.  My wife, who is my life partner does not feel the risks of not filing are worth the rewards.

For those keeping score, as much as I love freedom and liberty, I love my family more.  I consciously give up many freedoms and liberties to try and maximize my odds of keeping my family together and out of harms away.  If that means paying extortion bribes, registrations, and all manner of legalistic harassment, so be it.

I fully recognize the irony of a freedom lover probably being more compliant with the law that most people who support the law, due to having a greater knowledge of it than average, and a conscious desire to keep a low legal profile.

Not only do I file taxes, but I pay taxes above and beyond the minimum I can squeak away with.  This is because I refuse to submit my children to the tax rolls, and as such I cannot claim them as exemptions.  And yes, every year I'm reminded of how much the government values my kids.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: DrillSgtK on April 07, 2006, 08:10:14 pm
Some ways i've found to convice the wife to not pay taxes. Show her how much she could give to her church if we did not pay taxes. Buy second hand nice things from the Penney saver papers, with cash. Explain how your better off if you don't pay. (more free, less worries, better than everyone else who is a slave to the government, etc.) spend more time with her at "tax time" and tell her how you could be doing paperwork instead of rubbing her feet.

I set the example, I have not filed since 1993 (i found liberty in 92). I think we are much happier not worrying about funding the government. (I hope to move my income below the taxable level next year so she will have a clean heart about it.)

Drill Sgt K
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Spinner on April 11, 2006, 02:52:35 pm
How do you find out what the maximum amount for tax exempt status is?
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: Junker on April 11, 2006, 04:07:11 pm
http://www.google.com/search?as_epq=tax+exempt+status
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: mutti on August 26, 2011, 08:59:54 am
I think we'll see more of this "revenue enhancement" or "user tax system" creep up as the States figure out this is the best "boiling frog" way to get people :

Tollway board approves 87.5% fare hike (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20110825/NEWS02/110829928/tollway-board-approves-87-5-fare-hike)
Quote
Members of the Illinois Tollway board have approved a plan that will nearly double tolls to pay for a more than $12-billion highway construction plan....

Under the plan, basic I-Pass toll rates would increase to 75 cents from 40 cents. Drivers who pay cash will continue to pay twice what I-Pass users pay.

Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: mutti on August 26, 2011, 11:26:48 am
And Another:
California board looking at new ways to collect unpaid tax (http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/25/3860197/california-board-looking-at-new.html#ixzz1W9XYKKz6)
Quote
A state tax board is examining more aggressive ways of persuading residents to pay taxes on out-of-state purchases, from sifting through shipping records to requiring tax preparers to ask clients if they bought goods online.

The five-member Board of Equalization, which oversees sales and use tax collection, contemplated such ideas this week while discussing unpaid taxes. Long-standing law requires California residents to pay "use tax" on out-of-state purchases.

Quote
Amazon.com has already contributed $5.25 million toward a signature drive to upend the law, Assembly Bill X1 28.

The Seattle-based retailer has not collected taxes so far on California purchases, believing that it remains exempt because it severed ties with "affiliates" who previously referred customers to its website. Under a 1935 law, Californians still owe use tax on out-of-state purchases, though few pay it.




Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: RagnarDanneskjold on August 29, 2011, 01:27:19 pm
Yeah, I heard Ohio is trying that same bull shit about "use" taxes. They are going after businesses first. Probably a trial balloon.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: defenestrate on December 18, 2011, 10:55:32 pm
It is virtually impossible to live "on-grid" and not pay some manner of tax. However, by using the barter system and doing jobs and making transactions of a private/unreported nature it is pretty easy to mostly live tax-free. If you want to be totally tax-free, you really need to drop off the grid in every way possible. That is kind of a long-term goal for me but in the meantime, I am okay with tax withholding of a moderate sort - if you don't file but are paying a nominal amount of taxes, it is not really worth the trouble to go after you unless you are doing the kind of business that draws attention from TPtB.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: da gooch on December 20, 2011, 09:16:58 pm
[snip - snip]

I set the example, I have not filed since 1993 (i found liberty in 92). I think we are much happier not worrying about funding the government. (I hope to move my income below the taxable level next year so she will have a clean heart about it.)

Drill Sgt K
:thumbsup:
I "retired" from the Merchant Marine in Jan '08 and have kept my income below the "poverty line" since.
It is not always comfortable [not having the readily available funds to pick up that poor lonely rifle looking for a home or whatever] but other than "use taxes" [which I also avoid as much as possible] I am not supporting Leviathan.
Work is "under the table" [when there is any] and or barter exchanges.

Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: ZooT_aLLures on January 22, 2012, 10:26:37 pm
Quote
I hope to move my income below the taxable level next year so she will have a clean heart about it

I personally don't think government bothers to "go after" folks that they "owe" money to............and in fact a decade or so ago, the 1040's stated that those entitled to a refund were NOT even required to file.........but that was then...........

I'll tell ya' something else...............I thin k the IRS database went bye-bye back in the Bush days............and that's why they "begged" people to apply for the tax rebate........if one remembers back that far.....
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: cz7 on December 25, 2012, 06:58:50 pm
bug out of the system ,totally ...off the grid and radar ! if more will do this less trouble for the rest ,who have done the same ! a nice peaceful way to protest the evil done ....
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: sharp_shepherd on April 27, 2014, 10:48:40 pm
I am now like Gooch in that I do my best to keep all my income off the table.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: GK on April 25, 2015, 05:04:32 pm
what makes you "think" that SS is "inescapable", hmm?  if you do biz as a corporation, you don't pay SS. if you don't FILE with the IRS, nobody will know whether or not you owe SS anything.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: sovereignbastard on April 25, 2015, 05:18:49 pm
Maybe the best way to deal with it is to not get a certificate of live birth to begin with...? Isn't that the original death trap..?
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: GK on April 25, 2015, 06:49:17 pm
pretty hard to avoid doing that. both of your parents would have to agree to a home birth, and the midwife would have to keep her mouth shut, as would all of your siblings, etc.  In the US, not a practical thing, really. however, it still happens quite a bit in Canada. If you are Caucasian, it's not hard to get a diff ID in Canada, and Canadians can do anything (in the US) that a US citizen can, except buy guns from  FFL dealers or get a job that requires a serious background check.
Title: Re: Paying Taxes
Post by: sovereignbastard on April 25, 2015, 07:48:09 pm
Maybe we should be trying to "educate" the masses about home birth, and skipping the whole process from the jump ? This might be a non violent way to avoid the unavoidable ?