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Partner Sites => Oath-Keepers => Topic started by: Eagle Eye on May 05, 2016, 09:29:25 am

Title: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Eagle Eye on May 05, 2016, 09:29:25 am
Has Oathkeepers.org been moved?  It will not load and the TapATalk app does not recognize it anymore.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 05, 2016, 09:52:30 am
dunno what to say, I have  been having the same problem.  Sent email to state moderator, no reply as of now.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 05, 2016, 11:00:11 am
The domains and cert on .org & .net have expired.  National is all over it.

This is the message from last morning:

Greetings,

I know you are expecting to see something else, but as all things are not as they seem. I guess the Oath Keepers should have gotten a better IT person to keep track of when their domains expired. I will entertain offers for these doamins for twenty four hours before I put them up for auction. If anyone is doubts the legal purchasing of these domains I have the receipt's and will be willing to show them before purchase. I can be reached at oathkeepersauction@gmail.com

Good Luck and Happy Bidding!
http://oathkeepers.org/Greetings,

Coming soon a New Oath Keepers ( not affiliated with any other group) with no membership fees, no greed.

From this morning:

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 05, 2016, 11:47:02 am
Yes, apparently somebody noticed that whoever is in charge of the oathkeepers.org and oathkeepers.net domains neglected to notice that their registration had expired and snarfed them, demanding a ransom to get them back.

I expect, though don't know, that the Oath Keepers folks will choose to buy new domains rather than pay the ransom to the ne'er-do-well who stole them. That's what I would do in such a situation, though NearlyFreeSpeech.net is much too good at sending plentiful email warnings for that to be likely to happen here.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 05, 2016, 12:01:33 pm
Well put Bill.  I see the benefit of someone taking the opportunity to pick-up where others have dropped unknowingly.  Personally I would have sent a notice if I were aware.  I think that most others would too.  Only a slime-ball would do this.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 05, 2016, 12:02:55 pm
The odd thing is...

Quote
whois oathkeepers.org
 ...
Updated Date: 2016-05-05T16:07:20Z
Creation Date: 2009-03-01T21:07:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2017-03-01T21:07:55Z
 ...

If it expired in 2016, it should have been on the anniversary of the creation date, just like the expiry date is.  How did it get grabbed 2 months into its current year?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 05, 2016, 12:05:46 pm
It is starting to smell like a -gag- instead of a hijacking by purchase.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 05, 2016, 12:12:14 pm
Registrars usually provide a grace period before returning an expired domain to availability. I guess that was two months for the oathkeepers.org domain. Pretty sloppy.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 05, 2016, 12:17:18 pm
No. It says "updated date", which likely means that the perp guessed their password and changed the name server. The domains may not be lost after all. Inside job?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SamCarter on May 05, 2016, 01:22:34 pm
I'm tempted to email that address something quite obscene.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: FDD on May 05, 2016, 03:00:02 pm
Sounds like something a LEO/JBT would do,
maybe to get back at some OK?

I would put nothing past what they would do to anyone they think is against them.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Cherokee on May 05, 2016, 03:56:09 pm
Wow! When I consider my last two comments on Oath Keepers, this turn of events is almost comical.

Admittedly, I have not been particularly approving of recent trends there.

One of the new moderators operates on his emotions and personal agendas. He is overly sensitive about comments regarding rogue or oath breaking LEOs. He also will not just admit that he is Muslim. Every time the word is used, he goes into Muslim defense mode. The clues are all there. I believe he is a black American Muslim, and that is OK. It's the way he goes about the Muslim defense mode that bothers me. The feeling is that he is too ashamed to admit it, ...and I know he is not obligated to reveal or state his religion, but I get the feeling he prefers the membership not know that a Muslim is moderating the forum. That seems a little disingenuous to me. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, so don't take me to the woodshed over it. Think of it as sharing my thoughts over the campfire.

A recent thread there was regarding a Muslim only cemetery. Some were against it. Others defended it. I simply stated, "I have nothing against a bunch of dead Muslims being buried together" .

My last comment on Oath Keepers before the site vanished was in a thread about how the forum had recently turned into a cyber ghost town. The debate was about why this was happening. Someone said it was due to the warmer weather.  I commented that the change was more than a few days old and personally,  my interest in Oath Keepers has been waning rapidly after more than 6 years with them. My final thought was, "I think my annual dues are coming due soon and I will be thinking very hard about whether to renew." Then the next time I try to log in,  there is a message about a coming New Oath Keepers with no dues. Poetic/Ironic.

No, I don't have the computer savvy to hi-Jack a website,  so it wasn't me. :D
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 05, 2016, 04:12:29 pm
It appears that they're making progress towards restoring the Oath Keepers web site but I'll let Elias reveal details, as and when he decides.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 05, 2016, 04:21:10 pm
Wow! When I consider my last two comments on Oath Keepers, this turn of events is almost comical.

Admittedly, I have not been particularly approving of recent trends there.

One of the new moderators operates on his emotions and personal agendas. He is overly sensitive about comments regarding rogue or oath breaking LEOs. He also will not just admit that he is Muslim. Every time the word is used, he goes into Muslim defense mode. The clues are all there. I believe he is a black American Muslim, and that is OK. It's the way he goes about the Muslim defense mode that bothers me. The feeling is that he is too ashamed to admit it, ...and I know he is not obligated to reveal or state his religion, but I get the feeling he prefers the membership not know that a Muslim is moderating the forum. That seems a little disingenuous to me. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, so don't take me to the woodshed over it. Think of it as sharing my thoughts over the campfire.

A recent thread there was regarding a Muslim only cemetery. Some were against it. Others defended it. I simply stated, "I have nothing against a bunch of dead Muslims being buried together" .

My last comment on Oath Keepers before the site vanished was in a thread about how the forum had recently turned into a cyber ghost town. The debate was about why this was happening. Someone said it was due to the warmer weather.  I commented that the change was more than a few days old and personally,  my interest in Oath Keepers has been waning rapidly after more than 6 years with them. My final thought was, "I think my annual dues are coming due soon and I will be thinking very hard about whether to renew." Then the next time I try to log in,  there is a message about a coming New Oath Keepers with no dues. Poetic/Ironic.

No, I don't have the computer savvy to hi-Jack a website,  so it wasn't me. :D


Sure it wasn't all your fault, Mr. T, I mean, Che'kee? :panic: :ohshit2:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 05, 2016, 05:45:01 pm
Fact: Oath Keepers still owns both domains, dot org and dot net.
Fact: Someone has attacked the domain service.
Fact: Oath Keepers is working hard and fast to restore the sites to public access at each proper url, oathkeepers.org and oathkeepers.net.
Fact: I should not say more at this time, but anticipate being free to render a quite interesting story about this "soon".

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Barrett K on May 05, 2016, 06:24:10 pm
Fact: Oath Keepers still owns both domains, dot org and dot net.
Fact: Someone has attacked the domain service.
Fact: Oath Keepers is working hard and fast to restore the sites to public access at each proper url, oathkeepers.org and oathkeepers.net.
Fact: I should not say more at this time, but anticipate being free to render a quite interesting story about this "soon".

Salute!
Elias

Thanks Elias, I was figuring a hijacking personally. It was up and running Tues morning then went down shortly there after. I was able to get on Tues evening through another rout, that I can't remember because I try several. There were ten listed on line in the "who's online" tab but the number showed thirteen.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 05, 2016, 06:53:59 pm
Thanks for the update, Elias.  That is good news.

Look forward to that interesting story "soon".
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 05, 2016, 07:24:32 pm
Thanks for the update, Elias.  That is good news.

Look forward to that interesting story "soon".

Just waiting on clearance. Will report here when I get it.
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: jamie on May 05, 2016, 07:38:00 pm
The domains and cert on .org & .net have expired.  National is all over it.

This is the message from last morning:

Greetings,

I know you are expecting to see something else, but as all things are not as they seem. I guess the Oath Keepers should have gotten a better IT person to keep track of when their domains expired. I will entertain offers for these doamins for twenty four hours before I put them up for auction. If anyone is doubts the legal purchasing of these domains I have the receipt's and will be willing to show them before purchase. I can be reached at oathkeepersauction@gmail.com

Good Luck and Happy Bidding!
http://oathkeepers.org/Greetings,

Coming soon a New Oath Keepers ( not affiliated with any other group) with no membership fees, no greed.

From this morning:




The inevitable split.

Good guys against the bad guys. The question is who are the good guys?

From Burt Lancaster in  The Professionals
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 05, 2016, 10:26:05 pm
The odd thing is...

Quote
whois oathkeepers.org
 ...
Updated Date: 2016-05-05T16:07:20Z
Creation Date: 2009-03-01T21:07:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2017-03-01T21:07:55Z
 ...

If it expired in 2016, it should have been on the anniversary of the creation date, just like the expiry date is.  How did it get grabbed 2 months into its current year?

Registry Expiry Date: 2017-03-01T21:07:55Z
Am I reading it right. . . .it should not be expired until March 1, 2017?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 05, 2016, 11:34:49 pm
The odd thing is...

Quote
whois oathkeepers.org
 ...
Updated Date: 2016-05-05T16:07:20Z
Creation Date: 2009-03-01T21:07:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2017-03-01T21:07:55Z
 ...

If it expired in 2016, it should have been on the anniversary of the creation date, just like the expiry date is.  How did it get grabbed 2 months into its current year?

Registry Expiry Date: 2017-03-01T21:07:55Z
Am I reading it right. . . .it should not be expired until March 1, 2017?

Well, as I said a few posts back up this thread, Oath Keepers still owns those domains. The domain registries did not expire.  The attack was not on our sites, but instead was an attack on our registries.
All shall be well.

Salute!
Eilas
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Eagle Eye on May 06, 2016, 09:48:32 am
Thanks Elias. Will notification be Emailed when the site is back up? 

My Son warned me that this type of forum could be vulnerable, because of the type of registry. He could explain it better than I, but still this is definately a hack attack.

I like the way the writer says a new site will be up for free, no membership, no fees, but demands ransome to restore. Yeh, right. No greed here.

BTW:
Oath Keepers may communicate via the forums and web site, but we are much more than those softwares. We are boots on the ground. We are CPT. We are all of the members - not some web site. As in all conflicts, there may be challenges, but aside from not having the benefit of this forum, we can still follow through with our preparedness and community activities. 

We are either totally in for the long haul, or not. 
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 06, 2016, 10:42:24 am
**** :thumbsup:****
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 06, 2016, 01:01:22 pm
Eagle Eye,
Yes, I will send an email blast to the full Oath Keepers list as soon as I get the word from Stewart.
I would like to note that Oath Keepers forums are also down, for they were at oathkeepers.net and the person who is doing the damage to our national site is also doing it to our forums. But I want to make clear for all readers that TMM's forums here are not affiliated with Oath Keepers or the Oath Keepers forums. The Mental Militia is not affiliated with Oath Keepers in any way. This is a privately-owned system of forums that just happens to be where the first forum for Oath Keepers was created and hosted temporarily while Oath Keepers built its first website and forums.
Thank you for being here, Eagle Eye.
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Cherokee on May 06, 2016, 02:18:21 pm
Wow! When I consider my last two comments on Oath Keepers, this turn of events is almost comical.

Admittedly, I have not been particularly approving of recent trends there.

One of the new moderators operates on his emotions and personal agendas. He is overly sensitive about comments regarding rogue or oath breaking LEOs. He also will not just admit that he is Muslim. Every time the word is used, he goes into Muslim defense mode. The clues are all there. I believe he is a black American Muslim, and that is OK. It's the way he goes about the Muslim defense mode that bothers me. The feeling is that he is too ashamed to admit it, ...and I know he is not obligated to reveal or state his religion, but I get the feeling he prefers the membership not know that a Muslim is moderating the forum. That seems a little disingenuous to me. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, so don't take me to the woodshed over it. Think of it as sharing my thoughts over the campfire.

A recent thread there was regarding a Muslim only cemetery. Some were against it. Others defended it. I simply stated, "I have nothing against a bunch of dead Muslims being buried together" .

My last comment on Oath Keepers before the site vanished was in a thread about how the forum had recently turned into a cyber ghost town. The debate was about why this was happening. Someone said it was due to the warmer weather.  I commented that the change was more than a few days old and personally,  my interest in Oath Keepers has been waning rapidly after more than 6 years with them. My final thought was, "I think my annual dues are coming due soon and I will be thinking very hard about whether to renew." Then the next time I try to log in,  there is a message about a coming New Oath Keepers with no dues. Poetic/Ironic.

No, I don't have the computer savvy to hi-Jack a website,  so it wasn't me. :D


Sure it wasn't all your fault, Mr. T, I mean, Che'kee? :panic: :ohshit2:

I'm certain it wasn't me. I don't have the smarts for that kind of tinkering. In spite of my recent discontent with the organization,  I harbor no ill will nor bad juju toward it. If Oath Keepers can stay afloat as long as TMM, that will be great. I'm just pondering my role in the grand scheme.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Eagle Eye on May 06, 2016, 02:34:18 pm
Thanks Elias.

This also demonstrates the reason for us developing a strong local contact network. Whether it be by phone, shortwave or face to face; there should be no reason we can't continue to communicate with those critical local contacts, website or not.

I see the website as a great central point of information dissemination, as it pertains to the general interests of Oath Keeper members. But not a panacea for our own actions on behalf of our families, friend and neighbors in an emergency situation.

Actually, I have expected some kind of interference of this kind from either TPTB or an ultra liberal dumb arse before now. ( note the revealing word - "greed", used in the posting.)  You can always gauge the level of success of an organization such as OK by the extent of opposition from the freedom takers. It proves we are on the right path, IMHO.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 06, 2016, 04:46:48 pm
I will be attempting to remain patient while we wait for the POS to be revealed and the time and place of the "correction" to his/her/their moral failure.

I have plenty of nylon rope in 1/2" as well as 3/4" and even some 1" if it might be needed. Just gimme a shout and I'll be happy to send it along.

Knots of all types provided for free in this case.

capt gooch
Texas
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Eagle Eye on May 06, 2016, 05:08:47 pm
A good ole fashioned Texas sleigh ride may be appropriate for the vermin... :occasion14:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Free Bird on May 06, 2016, 07:34:08 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 06, 2016, 07:49:25 pm
A good ole fashioned Texas sleigh ride may be appropriate for the vermin... :occasion14:

Didn't the Commanche people invent that "sleigh ride"?
Particularly in the drier cactus country?

Either way it's an unpleasant way to "expire".  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 06, 2016, 08:05:10 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)
I wonder how many from the hill walk through there and with idle conversation the OK's come up.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 07, 2016, 04:37:36 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)

Is that a serious accusation?  All I can tell is that they're a computer repair service in Maryland with a very unprofessional webpage.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 07, 2016, 05:00:54 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)

Is that a serious accusation?  All I can tell is that they're a computer repair service in Maryland with a very unprofessional webpage.

It is an unsupportable allegation from someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.
Remember, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
There are many who wait for the opportunity to snatch a domain when it expires, betting they can make a buck on it.  It's called speculating.  An ancient, time-honored if not always honorable pursuit.
Just as Rhodes abandoned a client and hence was disbarred from practicing law, he screwed up here also.
It is the screw-ups who bring you down.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 07, 2016, 05:15:45 pm
Remember, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
There are many who wait for the opportunity to snatch a domain when it expires, betting they can make a buck on it.  It's called speculating.  An ancient, time-honored if not always honorable pursuit.
Just as Rhodes abandoned a client and hence was disbarred from practicing law, he screwed up here also.
It is the screw-ups who bring you down.

And then there are others who look for security holes in other people's systems, and exploit them, for yucks, for malice, or just because they are poor, broken human beings.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 07, 2016, 05:31:54 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)

Is that a serious accusation?  All I can tell is that they're a computer repair service in Maryland with a very unprofessional webpage.

It is an unsupportable allegation from someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.
Remember, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
There are many who wait for the opportunity to snatch a domain when it expires, betting they can make a buck on it.  It's called speculating.  An ancient, time-honored if not always honorable pursuit.
Just as Rhodes abandoned a client and hence was disbarred from practicing law, he screwed up here also.
It is the screw-ups who bring you down.

Which could be ascribed to your reply.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 07, 2016, 06:10:54 pm
Remember, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
There are many who wait for the opportunity to snatch a domain when it expires, betting they can make a buck on it.  It's called speculating.  An ancient, time-honored if not always honorable pursuit.
Just as Rhodes abandoned a client and hence was disbarred from practicing law, he screwed up here also.
It is the screw-ups who bring you down.

And then there are others who look for security holes in other people's systems, and exploit them, for yucks, for malice, or just because they are poor, broken human beings.

Of course.  That is always a possibility.  But we have not seen evidence of that.  If you have, please share.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 07, 2016, 06:13:58 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)

Is that a serious accusation?  All I can tell is that they're a computer repair service in Maryland with a very unprofessional webpage.

It is an unsupportable allegation from someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.
Remember, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
There are many who wait for the opportunity to snatch a domain when it expires, betting they can make a buck on it.  It's called speculating.  An ancient, time-honored if not always honorable pursuit.
Just as Rhodes abandoned a client and hence was disbarred from practicing law, he screwed up here also.
It is the screw-ups who bring you down.

Which could be ascribed to your reply.


Thanks for your insightful, well-reasoned response.
If anything I posted is incorrect, please, enlighten us.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 07, 2016, 06:25:50 pm
From my end, this is the place that did the hijacking...    http://www.stategeeks.com/ (http://www.stategeeks.com/)

Is that a serious accusation?  All I can tell is that they're a computer repair service in Maryland with a very unprofessional webpage.

It is an unsupportable allegation from someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.
Remember, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
There are many who wait for the opportunity to snatch a domain when it expires, betting they can make a buck on it.  It's called speculating.  An ancient, time-honored if not always honorable pursuit.
Just as Rhodes abandoned a client and hence was disbarred from practicing law, he screwed up here also.
It is the screw-ups who bring you down.

Hi Been There, and welcome to TMM's forums. I see that you are new here, and I hope you will enjoy your experience here. However, I would like to ask you for proof of your suggestion that Stewart Rhodes has been "disbarred from practicing law". Is that just something you were told, or do you have tangible evidence to support the claim that he was disbarred? Thanks for clarification on that.

Additionally, I would interject the highly probable scenario, that Stewart did not "screw-up". To the best of my knowledge, Oath Keepers retains full ownership of both domains in question, and our domain registrations were paid on schedule. I do not have tangible evidence to support my claim about that, but am going by what I was told almost three days ago by someone in a position to know in Oath Keepers' leadership staff.

Thanks,
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 07, 2016, 07:14:58 pm

Hi Been There, and welcome to TMM's forums. I see that you are new here, and I hope you will enjoy your experience here. However, I would like to ask you for proof of your suggestion that Stewart Rhodes has been "disbarred from practicing law". Is that just something you were told, or do you have tangible evidence to support the claim that he was disbarred? Thanks for clarification on that.

Additionally, I would interject the highly probable scenario, that Stewart did not "screw-up". To the best of my knowledge, Oath Keepers retains full ownership of both domains in question, and our domain registrations were paid on schedule. I do not have tangible evidence to support my claim about that, but am going by what I was told almost three days ago by someone in a position to know in Oath Keepers' leadership staff.

Thanks,
Salute!
Elias

Thank you for the welcome.

Concerning proof of Rhodes' disbarment, there is this filing, "IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF MONTANA, PR 14-0698" dated December 8, 2015, which can be found at:

https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/294380213?access_key=key-p3YkSJOqWCiyQwkQ3BYX&allow_share=true&escape=false&view_mode=scroll

Note page 2, where it states: "IT IS HEREBY ORDERED:
1. Respondent Elmer S. Rhodes is disbarred from the practice of law in the State of Montana effective immediately."

I am surprised that this is not common knowledge here.

As for the domain screw-up, it is possible that Rhodes is not responsible for that.  However, after having seen the wreckage of his other screw-ups, such as the way he neglected and abandoned clients (Michael Roth, then Jennifer Jones) in federal court cases, it seems likely he failed to renew the domain registration.  Given his history of screwing over people who depended on him, it would fit the pattern of neglectful behavior.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on May 07, 2016, 07:16:05 pm

Hi Been There, and welcome to TMM's forums. I see that you are new here, and I hope you will enjoy your experience here. However, I would like to ask you for proof of your suggestion that Stewart Rhodes has been "disbarred from practicing law". Is that just something you were told, or do you have tangible evidence to support the claim that he was disbarred? Thanks for clarification on that.

Additionally, I would interject the highly probable scenario, that Stewart did not "screw-up". To the best of my knowledge, Oath Keepers retains full ownership of both domains in question, and our domain registrations were paid on schedule. I do not have tangible evidence to support my claim about that, but am going by what I was told almost three days ago by someone in a position to know in Oath Keepers' leadership staff.

Thanks,
Salute!
Elias

Thank you for the welcome.

Concerning proof of Rhodes' disbarment, there is this filing, "I
I........... :huh: :dontknow: :huh:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: FDD on May 07, 2016, 07:35:44 pm

Hi Been There, and welcome to TMM's forums. I see that you are new here, and I hope you will enjoy your experience here. However, I would like to ask you for proof of your suggestion that Stewart Rhodes has been "disbarred from practicing law". Is that just something you were told, or do you have tangible evidence to support the claim that he was disbarred? Thanks for clarification on that.

Additionally, I would interject the highly probable scenario, that Stewart did not "screw-up". To the best of my knowledge, Oath Keepers retains full ownership of both domains in question, and our domain registrations were paid on schedule. I do not have tangible evidence to support my claim about that, but am going by what I was told almost three days ago by someone in a position to know in Oath Keepers' leadership staff.

Thanks,
Salute!
Elias

Thank you for the welcome.

Concerning proof of Rhodes' disbarment, there is this filing, "I
I........... :huh: :dontknow: :huh:

someone forgot to pay their internet, maybe?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 07, 2016, 07:36:13 pm
Heh!
Looks like the long arm of the British Accredited Registry reached through the etheric Internet and zapped him before he could paste in his filing, eh? ;)
Maybe he'll recover and return with the "rest of the story".

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 07, 2016, 07:39:36 pm
Heh!
Looks like the long arm of the British Accredited Registry reached through the etheric Internet and zapped him before he could paste in his filing, eh? ;)
Maybe he'll recover and return with the "rest of the story".

Salute!
Elias

It's there now.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 07, 2016, 10:22:36 pm
Heh!
Looks like the long arm of the British Accredited Registry reached through the etheric Internet and zapped him before he could paste in his filing, eh? ;)
Maybe he'll recover and return with the "rest of the story".

Salute!
Elias

It's there now.

I'm glad to see you did not get zapped, lol!
I must congratulate you for backing up your claim fully and promptly. It appears to be official. Oddly enough, I had not seen that, and Stewart has not said anything to me about it. Wow. That is surprising news.

Regarding the website being down, well, I have not heard anything since Thursday afternoon, more than two days ago. What I had been told was that someone had fraudulently claimed to be the owner of the domains and apparently used the registry to do the deed. I figured the site would have been up by yesterday. Like you and everyone else, I'd sure like to know where things stand at present.

But again -- though this is horrible news, I must congratulate you for a strong performance in substantiating your claim about the disbarment. Wow.

Salute!
Elias

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 08, 2016, 12:56:45 am
But again -- though this is horrible news, I must congratulate you for a strong performance in substantiating your claim about the disbarment. Wow.

Salute!
Elias

I just felt a crack in my foundation
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 01:13:17 am
Yep. I am a bit stunned too. This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further, because in my view, Oath Keepers is a very valuable idea for the liberty movement as a whole, and this sort of thing could hurt an organization that is peopled by many good women and men, all of whom will feel the hurt of this. I know a lot of good people who are doing the lion's share of strong work under the Oath Keepers banner, many of whom will be embarrassed by the association once this gets out. I really don't want any part in letting the story out to the public -- want no part in that. So I am saddened that it showed up here at TMM's forums, but I can't rightly delete it, for it's true, and that is not my doing. It' just not a fitting portrait for a man who made the Oath a weapon for freedom. I am very sad for him, and for what this will do to his organization.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 08, 2016, 01:17:39 am
agreed and ditto
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 02:43:16 am
You know, Jake, I'm thinking about this more deeply, and it occurs to me that it's entirely possible that the movement to teach people about the Oath will go forward anyway. I think Stewart has got that ball rolling. Eight years ago we hardly ever heard any politician talk about the Oath, but nowadays in any election cycle we notice that all candidates, when asked about it, declare (whether deceptively or honestly) that they will honor their Oath. Like, it's part of the national political dialogue now, and Stewart gets credit for that in my book. But however anyone feels about that, the truth is the movement, carried forward by thousands of good patriots, will continue to have an effect on politicians, police, and military. How can I know that? Simple. The many thousands who've recognized the genius in the very idea of educating about the Oath will not give up that tool just because of a misjudgment by the guy who brought it to the table. I know I won't. I've seen the power in that vision, and will not put down the tool that has been passed to me. I think many others will feel the same way.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: jamie on May 08, 2016, 03:09:26 am
I have been around long enough to understand that not all is as it seems.  There might be a reason, a supportable reason, for the disbarment.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 08, 2016, 05:28:27 am
Though that disbarment notice LOOKS real, it's not hard to imagine forging it and uploading to Scribd, so I went to Ed Smith's web site and searched for Rhodes. Confirmed. I suppose that site could have been hacked, but it seems highly doubtful to me.

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/search/case?case=17398
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 08, 2016, 05:32:44 am
The other thing I don't know is whether the "Elmer S. Rhodes" mentioned in the disbarment is the same Stewart Rhodes who founded Oath Keepers.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 08, 2016, 06:58:11 am
It looks like the oathkeepers.org bits are still there (or were restored from backup). Latest post: May 3, 2016.

I found it by adding to my /etc/hosts file (google "/etc/hosts windows" for the Windows location of that file):

Code: [Select]
209.188.24.130 oathkeepers.org www.oathkeepers.org
Then going to https://www.oathkeepers.org/

I found that IP address at http://viewdns.info/iphistory/?domain=oathkeepers.org
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SamCarter on May 08, 2016, 07:43:19 am
Over the last several days the site has been down then up then down then up and finally down again for the last three days.  One impression I have had for awhile is that Stewart and others are preferring to communicate via Facebook rather than the OK forum, the thought being is that it reached more people.  It was disappointing to me that the Oathkeepers own forum wouldn't be preferable to other social media. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if they let the forum go permanently.

As far as Stewarts disbarment, it has been discussed on the forum.  The reason was a charge that he failed to properly represent a client.  I'm sorry I don't remember if that part was explained, but I do know that Stewart had become increasingly unhappy with the BAR and intended to resign anyway, so when these charges came up he just chose to not respond.  It seemed that this explanation seemed to satisfy most people, so please don't judge Stewart's actions until the site is back up and you can read that whole thread.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 08, 2016, 08:53:53 am
Yep. I am a bit stunned too. This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further, because in my view, Oath Keepers is a very valuable idea for the liberty movement as a whole, and this sort of thing could hurt an organization that is peopled by many good women and men, all of whom will feel the hurt of this. I know a lot of good people who are doing the lion's share of strong work under the Oath Keepers banner, many of whom will be embarrassed by the association once this gets out. I really don't want any part in letting the story out to the public -- want no part in that. So I am saddened that it showed up here at TMM's forums, but I can't rightly delete it, for it's true, and that is not my doing. It' just not a fitting portrait for a man who made the Oath a weapon for freedom. I am very sad for him, and for what this will do to his organization.

Salute!
Elias

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 08, 2016, 09:03:08 am
You know, Jake, I'm thinking about this more deeply, and it occurs to me that it's entirely possible that the movement to teach people about the Oath will go forward anyway. I think Stewart has got that ball rolling. Eight years ago we hardly ever heard any politician talk about the Oath, but nowadays in any election cycle we notice that all candidates, when asked about it, declare (whether deceptively or honestly) that they will honor their Oath. Like, it's part of the national political dialogue now, and Stewart gets credit for that in my book. But however anyone feels about that, the truth is the movement, carried forward by thousands of good patriots, will continue to have an effect on politicians, police, and military. How can I know that? Simple. The many thousands who've recognized the genius in the very idea of educating about the Oath will not give up that tool just because of a misjudgment by the guy who brought it to the table. I know I won't. I've seen the power in that vision, and will not put down the tool that has been passed to me. I think many others will feel the same way.

Salute!
Elias
I understand Elias.  It just became a little vacuum for a while.  Sucked the air out out of the room so to speak.  This morning, I realized that it was only the jell that held together individuals that shall continue because of their chemistry.  Come to think about it, the jell is still there as with common logic and it is just the watering hole that got smacked.

I found the Oath Keepers just this last January.  Up until that point we were doing our own thing in prep and had been doing so since the late 1990's.  The writings of Rosenburg, Rawles, and others confirmed our doings as just.  But when finding the Keepers, it was very rewarding in the insightful collective words of so many others and knowing that there was others was blissful. 

The the key was the "Oath".  I took three, selective service, navy, and small town police (although only a reservist).  The first was like any in the Boy Scouts.  The second was thought inspiring.  The third was laminating in a just way.

My membership number at OK was over 33k and that was as rewarding as finding the Keepers.  Each one of us come from different backgrounds and that diversity strengthens our efforts.  No one individual has all the answers.

Being here at TMM is as rewarding.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 08, 2016, 03:15:09 pm
I read Stewart's explanation of the "disbarment" hullabaloo.  I forget the precise details, but basically he got on some other lawyer's poop list for not being a good little cog in their machine, so they did some lawyer BS, sending stuff to him demanding he show up for whatever while he was in the middle of a family crisis (mother in law passing or something similar).

He blew off their threats, knowing that they would do more lawyer paper stuff, and not giving a shit.  The way he put it, it's like they wanted him to show up so they could scold him in person, and he didn't give them the satisfaction.

Anyway...  It was no mistake.  It was NOT negligence.  He did it on purpose.

As for this website stuff...  No idea.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the domain was allowed to expire.  That sort of thing happens when nearly EVERYONE is a volunteer, running the thing in their free time (which no one has).

.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 03:39:58 pm
This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further,

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.



Elias Alias, what one prefers be done can be contrary to what should be done.  It is in the best interest of OK that every member, and potential member, know this.  Without full disclosure, it will be used by those who want to discredit OK at a time of their choosing. You don't want to worry about how or when that will happen. You want to be the one to decide how and when. You don't want it to look like there is a cover up.

Waking Enigma, I got no bone to pick.  I was considering joining OK.  But, I don't join any organization without fully vetting the leadership and key members.  I do the homework.  It's called due diligence.  It didn't take long to find out about Rhodes.  That is why the lack of knowledge about him is surprising - if I can find this information, you can be sure your detractors can.  Is it good for the membership to know less about their leader than his enemies?  There lies the road to ruin.  Speaking the truth is not 'spreading the hate bashing.'

If it was discussed in a forum during November 2015, that was before the disbarment.  I for one would like to see Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, the facts seem to bear that Rhodes did a number of things that a lawyer just does not do - he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he mislead and then abandoned clients without notice to them and the court, he ignored orders to respond to the complaints, and he blew off a court order to appear.  Again, you just don't do that if you still want a career in law.  Of course, if you have another source of income (like some organization you "lead") then maybe you don't care.  But that's not the point.  He had obligations to others, and he shrugged them off.  As a man, that is something you just don't do.

You are both right, the mission is what is important.  However, you cannot keep the mission and the man separate when the man threatens the success of the mission.  Especially when the personality has no principles, as has been amply demonstrated.  For bringing dishonor upon Oathkeepers, the only honorable thing for Rhodes to do would be to resign and remove himself from anything to do with Oathkeepers.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 03:58:33 pm
I read Stewart's explanation of the "disbarment" hullabaloo.  I forget the precise details, but basically he got on some other lawyer's poop list for not being a good little cog in their machine, so they did some lawyer BS, sending stuff to him demanding he show up for whatever while he was in the middle of a family crisis (mother in law passing or something similar).

He blew off their threats, knowing that they would do more lawyer paper stuff, and not giving a shit.  The way he put it, it's like they wanted him to show up so they could scold him in person, and he didn't give them the satisfaction.

Anyway...  It was no mistake.  It was NOT negligence.  He did it on purpose.

As for this website stuff...  No idea.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the domain was allowed to expire.  That sort of thing happens when nearly EVERYONE is a volunteer, running the thing in their free time (which no one has).

.

.

If you would, please post Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, it seems like it is just part of a deeper hole he has been digging.

If, as you said, "It was no mistake.  It was NOT negligence.  He did it on purpose" that is truly troubling.  If he blew off his clients on purpose, leaving them hanging during a case, on purpose, then he is nobody I would follow, nor even want to be associated with in any way.  Choosing to not defend yourself against accusations suggests that you either don't care about the impact to your reputation, or that you acknowledge the truth of those accusations.  This is not just about being "scolded in person," this is about being an honorable man by answering and confronting your accusers with evidence to prove them wrong.  Letting yourself be drummed out of your chosen profession is not a wise thing to do if you can fight it.  He chose not to fight it; he chose to quit.  He has shown he will quit when faced with adversity. He is a quitter.  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 08, 2016, 04:14:04 pm
He has shown he will quit when faced with adversity. He is a quitter.  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?

I don't know Stewart, except from his long-ago thoughtful posts on these forums as "Stewart the Yalie". I have no idea what he was going through or why he chose to do what he did. It appears that neither do you. Bad relationships with government doesn't degrade anybody in my mind. More of a badge of honor.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on May 08, 2016, 04:26:48 pm

  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?
I am not an Oath Keeper. Thankfully, I have never been a part of an organization that required the Oath to be taken. I will however, chime in to say that nobody asked you to join OKers. Nobody asked you to follow Rhodes. Nobody asked you to be the judge of whether or not OTHERS should follow Rhodes. You are free to do as you please. What you seem to be implying though, is a coup. écraser légèrement, mon amie. Judging by your posts so far, you are sending up red flags. You seem to be a government "agent provocateur". Or at the very least, a misguided SJW. :ph34r:

There are many that have been affected by following the wrong guy. Just ask Destin! He'll let you know how he really feels about Boston T. Party. :laugh: So, Is Rhodes the wrong guy to follow? I have no idea. You, along with everybody else that seeks to sign on with OKers, must make that decision for yourself.

Personally, I follow no one. I am a "maverick". I think for myself. I do not need, nor want, a "leader". Perhaps, you are the same. Well....... that is, assuming your intentions are pure, and you are not a POS agent provocateur. :ph34r:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 04:42:02 pm

I don't know Stewart, except from his long-ago thoughtful posts on these forums as "Stewart the Yalie". I have no idea what he was going through or why he chose to do what he did. It appears that neither do you.

Neither his words nor thoughts matter.  It is his actions which are the measure of the man.  He dishonored his oath as a lawyer, he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he abandoned clients, and then refused to answer questions about these actions.

Quote
Bad relationships with government doesn't degrade anybody in my mind. More of a badge of honor.

You need to distinguish between the various types of "Bad relationships with government."  Criminals have "Bad relationships with government."  I'm sure you wouldn't consider that a "badge of honor" in such cases.

His clients had "Bad relationships with government."  He contracted to represent them before a government court.  That is a badge of honor.  He proceeded to misrepresented himself, then abandon those clients. He did not honor his contracted obligation. That is a stain of dishonor, the magnitude of which can only be diminished by humility and contrition.  As soon as we see what Rhodes has said about this affair, we might know whether he has either.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 04:49:56 pm
This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further,

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.



Elias Alias, what one prefers be done can be contrary to what should be done.  It is in the best interest of OK that every member, and potential member, know this.  Without full disclosure, it will be used by those who want to discredit OK at a time of their choosing. You don't want to worry about how or when that will happen. You want to be the one to decide how and when. You don't want it to look like there is a cover up.

Waking Enigma, I got no bone to pick.  I was considering joining OK.  But, I don't join any organization without fully vetting the leadership and key members.  I do the homework.  It's called due diligence.  It didn't take long to find out about Rhodes.  That is why the lack of knowledge about him is surprising - if I can find this information, you can be sure your detractors can.  Is it good for the membership to know less about their leader than his enemies?  There lies the road to ruin.  Speaking the truth is not 'spreading the hate bashing.'

If it was discussed in a forum during November 2015, that was before the disbarment.  I for one would like to see Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, the facts seem to bear that Rhodes did a number of things that a lawyer just does not do - he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he mislead and then abandoned clients without notice to them and the court, he ignored orders to respond to the complaints, and he blew off a court order to appear.  Again, you just don't do that if you still want a career in law.  Of course, if you have another source of income (like some organization you "lead") then maybe you don't care.  But that's not the point.  He had obligations to others, and he shrugged them off.  As a man, that is something you just don't do.

You are both right, the mission is what is important.  However, you cannot keep the mission and the man separate when the man threatens the success of the mission.  Especially when the personality has no principles, as has been amply demonstrated.  For bringing dishonor upon Oathkeepers, the only honorable thing for Rhodes to do would be to resign and remove himself from anything to do with Oathkeepers.

Well, you're just quite the philosopher, indeed. Of course, the way you see things is always the correct way to see things, I can surmise that from your manifest un-wavering self-assurance that you know what is best.

I am not arguing with your points. I do disagree with your perceived need to open this up and then keep it open. To me, the whole matter should be between you and Stewart, not a topic for public discussion. But that is just my opinion, and obviously is not what you would choose.

Whatever damage you want to do has already been done, so I release you to your highest good. You have every right to your opinion, and you also have the right to be void of class, dignity, compassion, and forgiveness. If that is what gives you your jollies, then so be it. I'm just cut from a different cloth, so I'll invite you to keep your opinions while you reciprocate that right to me as well. It is my opinion that a man -- any man -- can make mistakes, for we all seem to make mistakes at one time or another. However, when a man has given this country as valuable a vision as Stewart has given the nation, I tend to recall my capacity for compassion and forgiveness, while it appears that you enjoy twisting the knife after you've stabbed it in. Like I said, I sense that you and I are not cut from the same cloth, but I'm okay with that.

As the owner of these forums and having been the senior editor for Oath Keepers for almost seven years now, I can tell you that I may know more about Stewart and Oath Keepers than your "due diligence" has provided your discernment. I submit (not to you, but to other readers here) that if you knew what I know you may not be so sure about how to respond to Stewart's mistakes. I am not going to be the one to throw Stewart under the bus, for I still believe that all men make mistakes and I would not deprive Stewart of the opportunity to correct past mistakes. That would be what Christians refer to as "God's business", not mine. It's between Stewart and his conscience.

I am just lamenting that TMM now is on record for publishing this embarrassment, but I am not saying you are wrong about your ice-cold points. What I would love to see happen in your mind would be a recollection of various aspects of Love's thought system, such as compassion, mercy, forgiveness, considerateness, empathy, personal dignity, balance, and oh yes, also some refreshing humility. Your notion of Stewart somehow needing to resign from the organization he created, based on some errors he made in his private role as an attorney, indicates to me that you have little of those traits I just listed. But please do go forward as you will. You are abiding by our terms of service here, and are welcome to express your truest nature as best you will.

I would like to state that Stewart owns Oath Keepers, but I own TMM's forums and national website. The two are not related, not connected other than by coincidences such as Stewart having been registered here for a couple of years before he started Oath Keepers and the fact that I work for Oath Keepers as their editor. TMM is its own entity, was here long before Oath Keepers came along, and remains completely a separate entity in all respects. I own the license for The Mental Militia LLC, which is a registered business. I have no ownership in Oath Keepers. In that context, what goes on with Oath Keepers cannot be a reflection upon The Mental Militia. Thanks for reading. As Kurt Vonnegut would say, "Welcome To The Monkey House". ;)

Salute!
Elias


Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SamCarter on May 08, 2016, 04:51:03 pm
This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further,

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.



Elias Alias, what one prefers be done can be contrary to what should be done.  It is in the best interest of OK that every member, and potential member, know this.  Without full disclosure, it will be used by those who want to discredit OK at a time of their choosing. You don't want to worry about how or when that will happen. You want to be the one to decide how and when. You don't want it to look like there is a cover up.

Waking Enigma, I got no bone to pick.  I was considering joining OK.  But, I don't join any organization without fully vetting the leadership and key members.  I do the homework.  It's called due diligence.  It didn't take long to find out about Rhodes.  That is why the lack of knowledge about him is surprising - if I can find this information, you can be sure your detractors can.  Is it good for the membership to know less about their leader than his enemies?  There lies the road to ruin.  Speaking the truth is not 'spreading the hate bashing.'

If it was discussed in a forum during November 2015, that was before the disbarment.  I for one would like to see Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, the facts seem to bear that Rhodes did a number of things that a lawyer just does not do - he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he mislead and then abandoned clients without notice to them and the court, he ignored orders to respond to the complaints, and he blew off a court order to appear.  Again, you just don't do that if you still want a career in law.  Of course, if you have another source of income (like some organization you "lead") then maybe you don't care.  But that's not the point.  He had obligations to others, and he shrugged them off.  As a man, that is something you just don't do.

You are both right, the mission is what is important.  However, you cannot keep the mission and the man separate when the man threatens the success of the mission.  Especially when the personality has no principles, as has been amply demonstrated.  For bringing dishonor upon Oathkeepers, the only honorable thing for Rhodes to do would be to resign and remove himself from anything to do with Oathkeepers.

So you were "considering" joining, huh? I assume by that you mean you haven't joined. For a non member with no bone to pick you certainly seem to have your opinion about Stewart Rhodes and what Oathkeepers need. Well alright, you have a right to your opinion just as do I, and my opinion is I'm less sure about your commitment to the OK mission as I am about your desire to discredit Stewart.  Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to work for an alphabet agency would you?

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 04:58:45 pm

  Should you trust the mission of Oathkeepers to a quitter?
I am not an Oath Keeper. Thankfully, I have never been a part of an organization that required the Oath to be taken. I will however, chime in to say that nobody asked you to join OKers. Nobody asked you to follow Rhodes. Nobody asked you to be the judge of whether or not OTHERS should follow Rhodes.

Please. You have no idea what lead to my interest in OK.

Quote
You are free to do as you please. What you seem to be implying though, is a coup. écraser légèrement, mon amie. Judging by your posts so far, you are sending up red flags. You seem to be a government "agent provocateur". Or at the very least, a misguided SJW. :ph34r:

There are many that have been affected by following the wrong guy. Just ask Destin! He'll let you know how he really feels about Boston T. Party. :laugh: So, Is Rhodes the wrong guy to follow? I have no idea. You, along with everybody else that seeks to sign on with OKers, must make that decision for yourself.

Such decisions should be made after careful consideration of all information.  I looked for information, found it, and made my decision.  Those who choose to ignore any information, and follow or associate themselves with someone with a demonstrable lack of good judgement and good character, do so at their own peril.
Warning others of such peril does not make one an agent provocateur. 

I don't know this Destin fellow, but it sounds like he got burned by BTP.  He's not the first, and probably not the last.

Quote
Personally, I follow no one. I am a "maverick". I think for myself. I do not need, nor want, a "leader". Perhaps, you are the same. Well....... that is, assuming your intentions are pure, and you are not a POS agent provocateur. :ph34r:

Good for you.  We are alike in that respect.  However, one can not want or need a leader, yet still want to associate with like-minded people.  That seems to get harder with every day.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 05:09:44 pm
This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further,

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.



Elias Alias, what one prefers be done can be contrary to what should be done.  It is in the best interest of OK that every member, and potential member, know this.  Without full disclosure, it will be used by those who want to discredit OK at a time of their choosing. You don't want to worry about how or when that will happen. You want to be the one to decide how and when. You don't want it to look like there is a cover up.

Waking Enigma, I got no bone to pick.  I was considering joining OK.  But, I don't join any organization without fully vetting the leadership and key members.  I do the homework.  It's called due diligence.  It didn't take long to find out about Rhodes.  That is why the lack of knowledge about him is surprising - if I can find this information, you can be sure your detractors can.  Is it good for the membership to know less about their leader than his enemies?  There lies the road to ruin.  Speaking the truth is not 'spreading the hate bashing.'

If it was discussed in a forum during November 2015, that was before the disbarment.  I for one would like to see Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, the facts seem to bear that Rhodes did a number of things that a lawyer just does not do - he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he mislead and then abandoned clients without notice to them and the court, he ignored orders to respond to the complaints, and he blew off a court order to appear.  Again, you just don't do that if you still want a career in law.  Of course, if you have another source of income (like some organization you "lead") then maybe you don't care.  But that's not the point.  He had obligations to others, and he shrugged them off.  As a man, that is something you just don't do.

You are both right, the mission is what is important.  However, you cannot keep the mission and the man separate when the man threatens the success of the mission.  Especially when the personality has no principles, as has been amply demonstrated.  For bringing dishonor upon Oathkeepers, the only honorable thing for Rhodes to do would be to resign and remove himself from anything to do with Oathkeepers.

Well, you're just quite the philosopher, indeed. Of course, the way you see things is always the correct way to see things, I can surmise that from your manifest un-wavering self-assurance that you know what is best.

I am not arguing with your points. I do disagree with your perceived need to open this up and then keep it open. To me, the whole matter should be between you and Stewart, not a topic for public discussion. But that is just my opinion, and obviously is not what you would choose.

Whatever damage you want to do has already been done, so I release you to your highest good. You have every right to your opinion, and you also have the right to be void of class, dignity, compassion, and forgiveness. If that is what gives you your jollies, then so be it. I'm just cut from a different cloth, so I'll invite you to keep your opinions while you reciprocate that right to me as well. It is my opinion that a man -- any man -- can make mistakes, for we all seem to make mistakes at one time or another. However, when a man has given this country as valuable a vision as Stewart has given the nation, I tend to recall my capacity for compassion and forgiveness, while it appears that you enjoy twisting the knife after you've stabbed it in. Like I said, I sense that you and I are not cut from the same cloth, but I'm okay with that.

As the owner of these forums and having been the senior editor for Oath Keepers for almost seven years now, I can tell you that I may know more about Stewart and Oath Keepers than your "due diligence" has provided your discernment. I submit (not to you, but to other readers here) that if you knew what I know you may not be so sure about how to respond to Stewart's mistakes. I am not going to be the one to throw Stewart under the bus, for I still believe that all men make mistakes and I would not deprive Stewart of the opportunity to correct past mistakes. That would be what Christians refer to as "God's business", not mine. It's between Stewart and his conscience.

I am just lamenting that TMM now is on record for publishing this embarrassment, but I am not saying you are wrong about your ice-cold points. What I would love to see happen in your mind would be a recollection of various aspects of Love's thought system, such as compassion, mercy, forgiveness, considerateness, empathy, personal dignity, balance, and oh yes, also some refreshing humility. Your notion of Stewart somehow needing to resign from the organization he created, based on some errors he made in his private role as an attorney, indicates to me that you have little of those traits I just listed. But please do go forward as you will. You are abiding by our terms of service here, and are welcome to express your truest nature as best you will.

I would like to state that Stewart owns Oath Keepers, but I own TMM's forums and national website. The two are not related, not connected other than by coincidences such as Stewart having been registered here for a couple of years before he started Oath Keepers and the fact that I work for Oath Keepers as their editor. TMM is its own entity, was here long before Oath Keepers came along, and remains completely a separate entity in all respects. I own the license for The Mental Militia LLC, which is a registered business. I have no ownership in Oath Keepers. In that context, what goes on with Oath Keepers cannot be a reflection upon The Mental Militia. Thanks for reading. As Kurt Vonnegut would say, "Welcome To The Monkey House". ;)

Salute!
Elias

Elias, it is a shame that you choose to disparage the messenger, especially when the messenger thought you knew all that.  You have no idea what is in my heart, nor I yours, or Rhodes.  He needs no forgiveness from me. He needs forgiveness from those he's wronged.

Trying to keep this info under wraps will come back to bite OK, hard.

Let's hope we can read what Rhodes had to say.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 05:15:27 pm
So you were "considering" joining, huh? I assume by that you mean you haven't joined. For a non member with no bone to pick you certainly seem to have your opinion about Stewart Rhodes and what Oathkeepers need. Well alright, you have a right to your opinion just as do I, and my opinion is I'm less sure about your commitment to the OK mission as I am about your desire to discredit Stewart.  Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to work for an alphabet agency would you?

I commit to principles and ideals, not to any man.  I have, for a long time, longer than there has been the OK, been committed to many of the stated principles of OK.
I choose not to lend my good name to any organization lead by a man whose character, motives, and actions appear questionable. 
I am open to correction.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 08, 2016, 06:49:16 pm
This is not good for Oath Keepers, and I would prefer that this not go any further,

Elias, this is already out in the public. 

Obviously, Been There has a bone to pick and chose TMM
for his agenda driven 'spread the hate' BASHING.

It was discussed on the OK forum in
mid-November of 2015 where Stewart posted
his side of the story and it was largely put to rest.
It had a ripple effect, at the time, with some members
and leadership leaving.  Fortunately, there are more
members that can discern the dire importance of the Mission
and keep the man separate.  Principles before personality.

I have his posted response, in full, in my files and can post it here
or email it to you, at your discretion.



Elias Alias, what one prefers be done can be contrary to what should be done.  It is in the best interest of OK that every member, and potential member, know this.  Without full disclosure, it will be used by those who want to discredit OK at a time of their choosing. You don't want to worry about how or when that will happen. You want to be the one to decide how and when. You don't want it to look like there is a cover up.

Waking Enigma, I got no bone to pick.  I was considering joining OK.  But, I don't join any organization without fully vetting the leadership and key members.  I do the homework.  It's called due diligence.  It didn't take long to find out about Rhodes.  That is why the lack of knowledge about him is surprising - if I can find this information, you can be sure your detractors can.  Is it good for the membership to know less about their leader than his enemies?  There lies the road to ruin.  Speaking the truth is not 'spreading the hate bashing.'

If it was discussed in a forum during November 2015, that was before the disbarment.  I for one would like to see Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, the facts seem to bear that Rhodes did a number of things that a lawyer just does not do - he misrepresented himself before a federal court, he mislead and then abandoned clients without notice to them and the court, he ignored orders to respond to the complaints, and he blew off a court order to appear.  Again, you just don't do that if you still want a career in law.  Of course, if you have another source of income (like some organization you "lead") then maybe you don't care.  But that's not the point.  He had obligations to others, and he shrugged them off.  As a man, that is something you just don't do.

You are both right, the mission is what is important.  However, you cannot keep the mission and the man separate when the man threatens the success of the mission.  Especially when the personality has no principles, as has been amply demonstrated.  For bringing dishonor upon Oathkeepers, the only honorable thing for Rhodes to do would be to resign and remove himself from anything to do with Oathkeepers.

Well, you're just quite the philosopher, indeed. Of course, the way you see things is always the correct way to see things, I can surmise that from your manifest un-wavering self-assurance that you know what is best.

I am not arguing with your points. I do disagree with your perceived need to open this up and then keep it open. To me, the whole matter should be between you and Stewart, not a topic for public discussion. But that is just my opinion, and obviously is not what you would choose.

Whatever damage you want to do has already been done, so I release you to your highest good. You have every right to your opinion, and you also have the right to be void of class, dignity, compassion, and forgiveness. If that is what gives you your jollies, then so be it. I'm just cut from a different cloth, so I'll invite you to keep your opinions while you reciprocate that right to me as well. It is my opinion that a man -- any man -- can make mistakes, for we all seem to make mistakes at one time or another. However, when a man has given this country as valuable a vision as Stewart has given the nation, I tend to recall my capacity for compassion and forgiveness, while it appears that you enjoy twisting the knife after you've stabbed it in. Like I said, I sense that you and I are not cut from the same cloth, but I'm okay with that.

As the owner of these forums and having been the senior editor for Oath Keepers for almost seven years now, I can tell you that I may know more about Stewart and Oath Keepers than your "due diligence" has provided your discernment. I submit (not to you, but to other readers here) that if you knew what I know you may not be so sure about how to respond to Stewart's mistakes. I am not going to be the one to throw Stewart under the bus, for I still believe that all men make mistakes and I would not deprive Stewart of the opportunity to correct past mistakes. That would be what Christians refer to as "God's business", not mine. It's between Stewart and his conscience.

I am just lamenting that TMM now is on record for publishing this embarrassment, but I am not saying you are wrong about your ice-cold points. What I would love to see happen in your mind would be a recollection of various aspects of Love's thought system, such as compassion, mercy, forgiveness, considerateness, empathy, personal dignity, balance, and oh yes, also some refreshing humility. Your notion of Stewart somehow needing to resign from the organization he created, based on some errors he made in his private role as an attorney, indicates to me that you have little of those traits I just listed. But please do go forward as you will. You are abiding by our terms of service here, and are welcome to express your truest nature as best you will.

I would like to state that Stewart owns Oath Keepers, but I own TMM's forums and national website. The two are not related, not connected other than by coincidences such as Stewart having been registered here for a couple of years before he started Oath Keepers and the fact that I work for Oath Keepers as their editor. TMM is its own entity, was here long before Oath Keepers came along, and remains completely a separate entity in all respects. I own the license for The Mental Militia LLC, which is a registered business. I have no ownership in Oath Keepers. In that context, what goes on with Oath Keepers cannot be a reflection upon The Mental Militia. Thanks for reading. As Kurt Vonnegut would say, "Welcome To The Monkey House". ;)

Salute!
Elias

Elias, it is a shame that you choose to disparage the messenger, especially when the messenger thought you knew all that.  You have no idea what is in my heart, nor I yours, or Rhodes.  He needs no forgiveness from me. He needs forgiveness from those he's wronged.

Trying to keep this info under wraps will come back to bite OK, hard.

Let's hope we can read what Rhodes had to say.

As I and others have stated, this has been in the public domain since 11-15.  It is NOT
being kept under wraps. 

You are making up stories that fail the facts and suit only your hate filled bashing agenda.

A person "committed to principles and ideals' would have posted an FYI link rather than
:puke: all over TMM in his first and subsequent posts.

You may be right about some of your summation but for all of the wrong reasons.

But as Elias said, please reveal yourself further.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 06:54:09 pm


Elias, it is a shame that you choose to disparage the messenger, especially when the messenger thought you knew all that.  You have no idea what is in my heart, nor I yours, or Rhodes.  He needs no forgiveness from me. He needs forgiveness from those he's wronged.

Trying to keep this info under wraps will come back to bite OK, hard.

Let's hope we can read what Rhodes had to say.

I don't feel like I am disparaging the messenger. I am disparaging the messenger's persistence in drumming on and on about another organization's president while here at TMM's forums, after I've dropped polite hints that your "message" is not really wanted here because I chance to work for the man you want to see destroyed.  TMM does have a vested interest in preventing any further growth and empowerment of the burgeoning police state. Oath Keepers has been a huge detriment to that expansion of the police power, and I'm just lamenting that Stewart (apparently) made some errors in judgment. To you, if a guy makes a few mistakes in judgment, you're ready to throw him under the bus. Your take on this is not my style at all, but you're certainly welcome to hold whatever views you choose. But always remember, there is the messenger, and there is the message. I find your message detrimental to my previous image of Stewart, so of course it's unpleasant news to me. But it is / was his decision to do or not do whatever his errors were. I find the whole subject to be uncomfortable for me, and have let you see that clearly enough, yet you persist in wanting to make me wallow in your gleeful pronouncements of Stewart's sins. So you are not at all respectful for my sentiment, which shows me that you are one insensitive person. When I go to someone else's forum, I seek for the proper decorum there and try my best to stay within acceptable parameters. You, on the other hand, couldn't care less. So, according to your earlier statements, you are disparaging me by continuing to harp on a subject which I find uncomfortable. You do not have to respect me, and I do not have to respect you. That does not mean I'm disparaging you, it just means that I see through your veneer. You obviously have an axe to grind, and you've picked my forums to do your nasty pleasure. So you've said your piece. Is there anything else you'd like from me?

Maybe you should know this... I organized the march in Quartzsite and drove down there from Montana to march with the people there. I met Jennifer "Jade" Jones and we became friends. We are close friends to this day, sharing phone calls, emails, and snail mails. She and I have countless hours discussing the problems which you're dragging out here, and you know what? She has never publicized Stewart's errors in how he mishandled her case.  She understands something your ego seems to be incapable of grasping -- that this sort of thing is best left out of the spotlight. Why would she and I both feel that way? The answer to that is readily seen by many reading here, but for you I'll spell it out. The Oath Keepers mission is much more important than one man.  Here -- take a look at Jade Jones, a woman who has more patriotism in her little finger than you can muster; a woman who has sensitivity and understanding of a larger picture of reality than your micro-introspection can manage; a woman who joins me in knowing what is at stake for all of us in this country and who is big enough to rise above the sort of childish-assed witch-hunting vengeance you're promoting here. Jennifer is the victim of the errors you're willing to crucify Stewart for having done to her, yet she has the standards of moral uprightness, dignity, and balance, enough so to, unlike you, refrain from dancing for joy that Stewart has been disbarred.

(https://eliasalias.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Jennifer-Jones-Senatorial-Candidate-Portrait-2014-3-300x224.jpg)

Now. I did not say that I wish to cover-up whatever Stewart did or did not do. I just asked that this knowledge not go wandering off this forum into the big cold world out there. Jennifer Jones and I both know why, and I lament that you can't figure that out for yourself, even after I've dropped several suggestive hints for you.

In closing this note, let me ask you to tell all readers here which organization you've started please. Give us a little background on you so we can see why we should respect you as you continue to try to destroy a man who gave this country the vision underlying the Oath.

Salute!
Elias

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 07:18:52 pm
As I and others have stated, this has been in the public domain since 11-15.  It is NOT
being kept under wraps. 

You are making up stories that fail the facts and suit only your hate filled bashing agenda.

A person "committed to principles and ideals' would have posted an FYI link rather than
:puke: all over TMM in his first and subsequent posts.


Please, read the documents available at the links already presented by myself and Mr. St. Clair before you make such desperately childish accusations.  Especially this one kindly provided by Mr. St. Clair:

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/search/case?case=17398

Then come back and show me where I am "making up stories that fail the facts."

Quote
You may be right about some of your summation but for all of the wrong reasons.

But as Elias said, please reveal yourself further.[/size]

Truth is its own reason.  Reveal myself?  After seeing these reactions?  Would you reveal yourself to someone who has shown overt hostility towards you?

It seems like there are a number of issues here.  One is the anger some feel when their preconceptions are threatened by evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 07:48:36 pm


Elias, it is a shame that you choose to disparage the messenger, especially when the messenger thought you knew all that.  You have no idea what is in my heart, nor I yours, or Rhodes.  He needs no forgiveness from me. He needs forgiveness from those he's wronged.

Trying to keep this info under wraps will come back to bite OK, hard.

Let's hope we can read what Rhodes had to say.

I don't feel like I am disparaging the messenger. I am disparaging the messenger's persistence in drumming on and on about another organization's president while here at TMM's forums, after I've dropped polite hints that
your "message" is not really wanted here because I chance to work for the man you want to see destroyed.
. . .

In closing this note, let me ask you to tell all readers here which organization you've started please. Give us a little background on you so we can see why we should respect you as you continue to try to destroy a man who gave this country the vision underlying the Oath.

Salute!
Elias

I apologize for not recognizing your polite hints as such.  Perhaps if you just decree that no more be said of the matter, it will go away, never to arise again, here or anywhere.  We both know the real world does not work that way.

Destroy Rhodes?  It has already been done. He did it to himself.  If he was an honorable man, he would resign to prevent his failings from bringing down OK.  And it will.  I don't feel any need to publicize this outside of this forum.  As I said, more than once, I thought everybody knew.  You can be sure that someone, somewhere, will bring this story to a wide audience at the worst possible time for OK. 

I understand your hostility.  It is very disappointing, even crushing, to find out such things about someone you thought you knew, especially when you worked with him for so long. It is surprising that someone who was as close to him as you claim to be was not aware of any of this. I am sorry you found out from me, that you did not already know what others have claimed was "public knowledge."

The only background on me you need to know, is that I've been burned more than once by those I thought were honorable and trustworthy.  I've had my illusions shattered more than once when I finally saw the truth.  And like you, at first I felt extreme hostility, even hate, towards those who were trying to open my eyes.  Then I wallowed in the jagged shards of those shattered illusions for a time until the realization came that such wallowing would only bring more cuts, more scars, more hurt.

I believe in the OK mission.  I just can't believe Rhodes, and while his vision was spot-on, I don't believe his continued association will be good for OK in the future.



Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: FDD on May 08, 2016, 08:05:25 pm
A lot of noobs here acting like they know more than everyone else.

maybe you do, maybe you do not, but the way you have gone about it, is not making any friends here.

in fact, you are sounding more and more like a troll.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 08:19:09 pm
Just for clarity, I'm not angry at you, just irritated by your egoism and insensitivity. But that is not a crime here, so do carry on. You did not comment on what I told you about Jennifer Jade Jones and why she understands good reasons not to go around bashing Stewart Rhodes, even though she was the victim in all this.

You apparently have not started your own operation/organization, but you are quick to criticize those who have actually done that. Balance, Mon! Achieve some balance in your views of things. Try a little humbleness, a little caring for your fellow man, a little respect for those who *are* doing something other than riding keypads on the Net.

I've nothing else to say. May you have every blessing in life you so richly deserve. As Silver often says,

Peace!

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 08, 2016, 08:33:45 pm
Been There

I have been a member of OK since its inception (Here at TMM) and have known Stewart since we first met in 2009.
I have known about his problems for about a year or so and never once felt the need to attempt to splash it all over the internet. I have never once considered them any part of my business with either OK or Stewart himself. With both of whom I do maintain relationships.

From the little I have learned from you, about you, in the recent few postings I can honestly state that I am not in the least interested in making your acquaintance. You sirrah are a back biter and the world has no need for more of those. Government seems to supply quite enough.

I, personally, will not miss your presence on these boards.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 08, 2016, 08:50:53 pm
If you would, please post Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, it seems like it is just part of a deeper hole he has been digging.


It was posted in a private forum, so it would be inappropriate to post here, even if I was to go to the effort of finding it.

EDIT:  a forum that isn't working, ROFL
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 09:00:08 pm
Just for clarity, I'm not angry at you, just irritated by your egoism and insensitivity. But that is not a crime here, so do carry on. You did not comment on what I told you about Jennifer Jade Jones and why she understands good reasons not to go around bashing Stewart Rhodes, even though she was the victim in all this.

I haven't enough information to comment on Ms. Jones, other than what you said.  With all due respect, I'll take that with a grain of salt.  It is confusing, though, because you said you were unaware of Rhodes' disbarment, yet aware of how he mishandled Jones' case.  If I were to speculate, Ms. Jones could be an example of something like Stockholm Syndrome. 

Have you also spoken with Michael Roth, his other abandoned client, and one of the complainants?

Quote
You apparently have not started your own operation/organization, but you are quick to criticize those who have actually done that. Balance, Mon! Achieve some balance in your views of things. Try a little humbleness, a little caring for your fellow man, a little respect for those who *are* doing something other than riding keypads on the Net.

Nice try, but I will not reveal any more about myself when surrounded by hostility.  You write nice, though.

Quote
I've nothing else to say. May you have every blessing in life you so richly deserve. As Silver often says,

Peace!

Salute!
Elias

So be it. Thank you for the backhanded parting.  I sincerely hope you fare well when things fall apart.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 08, 2016, 09:00:55 pm
Elias

Please do let us know when the guys get the OK website back on track would you?

Thanks brother

gooch
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 08, 2016, 09:05:18 pm
Wow.  It's pretty clear to me that you did NOT come here with any thoughts about joining Oath Keepers like you have stated.  You came here with an axe to grind about Stewart, and have not let up since.

He's a friend of mine, and still will be, no matter how he decides to quit his next job.  Maybe he doesn't want to be a lawyer anymore because the vast majority of them are giant assholes...  Kinda like you, actually.  You seem to have tremendous regard for the profession since you think him quitting it is so heinous.

Are you a lawyer?

Because you seem to care a WHOLE lot more about this than anyone else around here.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 09:10:39 pm
Been There

I have been a member of OK since its inception (Here at TMM) and have known Stewart since we first met in 2009.
I have known about his problems for about a year or so and never once felt the need to attempt to splash it all over the internet. I have never once considered them any part of my business with either OK or Stewart himself. With both of whom I do maintain relationships.

From the little I have learned from you, about you, in the recent few postings I can honestly state that I am not in the least interested in making your acquaintance. You sirrah are a back biter and the world has no need for more of those. Government seems to supply quite enough.

I, personally, will not miss your presence on these boards.

Splash all over the internet?  I mentioned his disbarment as evidence toward the proposition that he screwed up the domain registration.  As others have said, this was public knowledge.  For chrissakes, it's even in the Wikipedia article. 
If you feel that OK members and prospective members need to have this hidden from them, I respectively submit that that is a mistake.  I'll say it again - it will become widely spread by his enemies when it suits them.

Backbiter? Fine. Whatever.  What do you call someone who leads a group called Oathkeepers, when he has already violated an oath? Hypocrite, maybe? 

As for your statement that "I am not in the least interested in making your acquaintance" you mistakenly think that I consider you are important enough for me to care.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 09:20:25 pm
Wow.  It's pretty clear to me that you did NOT come here with any thoughts about joining Oath Keepers like you have stated.  You came here with an axe to grind about Stewart, and have not let up since.

I truly did consider joining OK.  Once I found out about Rhodes, my enthusiasm waned.
I had no axe to grind.  I responded to posts as they came.  You cannot blame the persistence of this thread on one person.  Takes two to tango.

Quote
He's a friend of mine, and still will be, no matter how he decides to quit his next job.  Maybe he doesn't want to be a lawyer anymore because the vast majority of them are giant assholes...  Kinda like you, actually.  You seem to have tremendous regard for the profession since you think him quitting it is so heinous.

Are you a lawyer?

Because you seem to care a WHOLE lot more about this than anyone else around here.


I care about the truth.  He didn't just quit his job - he was booted out of the profession.  Read the documents.  He violated his oath, he violated his contractual agreements, etc. etc.
You say you are his friend.  A true friend would look at all the evidence and say "Dude, you effed up."
An honorable man would reply "Yes, I sure did.  What can I do to make things right?"
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 09:27:20 pm
If you would, please post Rhodes' explanation.  Right now, it seems like it is just part of a deeper hole he has been digging.


It was posted in a private forum, so it would be inappropriate to post here, even if I was to go to the effort of finding it.

EDIT:  a forum that isn't working, ROFL

How convenient ;)
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 08, 2016, 09:27:48 pm
Are you, or are you not, a lawyer?

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 09:33:18 pm
Are you, or are you not, a lawyer?
.

Why does it matter?

Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?  As relevant a question as yours.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 09:51:48 pm
I have talked often with Michael Roth, but not in the past year. I'm much more in contact with Jennifer than Michael. Michael and I are both rock hounds, and he and I have exchanged specimen by U.S. mail. When I was down there in Quartzsite in 2011 he and I had several visits and became friends. We agreed to exchange some specimen. I sent him a box of Montana Opalwood specimen and he sent me a box of Arizona Tiffany Stone specimen.  Last I talked with Michael he was considering moving out of the country. But Jennifer and I continue to correspond.

Regarding my friendship with them, they were very grateful that I published a massive piece on their plight there, and were pleased that I put together a march for their people. It was a good march, with speaking in front of the police station. When Stewart was failing to provide the court there with timely responses and the court was growing impatient, I was the guy getting the calls not only from Jennifer and Michael but also from other concerned citizens there. I would relay their needs to Stewart until around autumn of 2013. I was keenly aware that there were problems with their attorney's performance, and tried to alleviate that situation, to no avail. I finally quit bringing it up to him, and told them I could not talk with him about it any more. Michael and I have not spoken in a while, but Jennifer and I do stay in touch. She is courageous and a very noble lady, but is hell on the local corruption, lol. She ended up getting the police chief fired, and narrowly missed being elected to the Arizona senate two years ago. Good strong woman. Michael was not so concerned about Oath Keepers as an organization and went public over the problem, but Jennifer has held back because she knows that the OK mission is more important. She will have her just reward if I have anything to say about it. She knows that I was not the problem, and she trusts me, as I do her.

So yes, I was aware that the court in Arizona had recommended to the Montana BAR that Stewart be dealt with, but I did not speak with Stewart about any of it after April of 2014, and he has not told me anything about it because it's none of my business. All my knowledge about what happened, and didn't happen, comes from four people who live at Quartzsite. I am not surprised that the disbarment happened, for I expected some kind of disciplinary action by Montana's BAR, but am surprised that I did not know about it until this thread.

Not sure about what you mean by "backhanded parting". You are not booted out of here. You do not have to be "liked" by people here so long as you abide by the terms to which you agreed when registering.  I see no infraction on your part, and I do value open and free speech, even if it sometimes gives me personal discomfort.  I believe our members here can handle things without breaking stride.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 08, 2016, 09:52:24 pm
Are you, or are you not, a lawyer?
.

Why does it matter?

Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?  As relevant a question as yours.

You care about truth.  So do I.  Answer the question.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 09:58:49 pm
Are you, or are you not, a lawyer?
.

Why does it matter?

Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?  As relevant a question as yours.

You care about truth.  So do I.  Answer the question.


You are in no position to make demands of me. However, I will answer your question, if you will answer the following question:

  What is your full name, date of birth, address, and social security number?

It is as relevant as yours, and since we both care about the truth, you should have no objection.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 10:06:57 pm
Alright. This thread can be closed unless it gets back to the topic and moves away from analyzing various post-makers here. I don't want the bandwidth spent on childish feuding, so let's clean it up, okay? Thanks!

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 10:07:39 pm
Elias

Please do let us know when the guys get the OK website back on track would you?

Thanks brother

gooch

Natch, gooch.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 08, 2016, 10:19:30 pm

Not sure about what you mean by "backhanded parting". You are not booted out of here. You do not have to be "liked" by people here so long as you abide by the terms to which you agreed when registering.  I see no infraction on your part, and I do value open and free speech, even if it sometimes gives me personal discomfort.  I believe our members here can handle things without breaking stride.

Salute!
Elias

Forgive me if I misinterpreted your intentions when you wrote "I've nothing else to say. May you have every blessing in life you so richly deserve."

Thank you for the background.  I better understand why this thread has gone the way it has.

I am glad that you recognize the value of speaking openly, even when it is uncomfortable, even painful.  It was never my intention to cause pain.

Whether I am liked or not is immaterial.  As are you, I am a seeker.  I do not question anybody's fortitude, for nobody can be certain about how one will respond to adversity until it happens.  After the fact, however, we can and should comment on someone's actions, what it shows about them, and what it means for their associations.  I do hope that the saying "There are none so blind, as those who will not see" has not become manifest here.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Moonbeam on May 08, 2016, 10:37:30 pm
FWIW, the issue regarding Rhodes was brought up here at TMM back in November 2015:

https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=35373.msg440688#msg440688

BeenThere, welcome to the forum! I hope you're not discouraged by the pile on, and do hope you consider sticking around. I suspect you have some quality input.

Gentlemen, just curious about something.... Earlier in the thread while discussing what a miscreant the person was for demanding ransom for a domain name some suggested death for this person. I'm assuming that y'all aren't really advocating violence? Just "guy trash talking?"

Ie:

Such theft is, as far as I know, not strictly illegal, but I'd happily use the thieves for target practice, or just watch them slowly die in agony after nailing them to a cross.

I will be attempting to remain patient while we wait for the POS to be revealed and the time and place of the "correction" to his/her/their moral failure.

I have plenty of nylon rope in 1/2" as well as 3/4" and even some 1" if it might be needed. Just gimme a shout and I'll be happy to send it along.

Knots of all types provided for free in this case.

A good ole fashioned Texas sleigh ride may be appropriate for the vermin... :occasion14:

Elias - Thank you for keeping folks informed about what's happening with the website!
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 08, 2016, 10:50:27 pm
You are in no position to make demands of me. However, I will answer your question, if you will answer the following question:

  What is your full name, date of birth, address, and social security number?

It is as relevant as yours, and since we both care about the truth, you should have no objection.

I am a computer programmer.  What is your profession?

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 11:17:24 pm
You are in no position to make demands of me. However, I will answer your question, if you will answer the following question:

  What is your full name, date of birth, address, and social security number?

It is as relevant as yours, and since we both care about the truth, you should have no objection.

I am a computer programmer.  What is your profession?

.

Klapton,

Disengage now please. The topic is the Oath Keepers site being down.

Thanks Brother,
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 08, 2016, 11:28:50 pm
FWIW, the issue regarding Rhodes was brought up here at TMM back in November 2015:

https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=35373.msg440688#msg440688

BeenThere, welcome to the forum! I hope you're not discouraged by the pile on, and do hope you consider sticking around. I suspect you have some quality input.

Gentlemen, just curious about something.... Earlier in the thread while discussing what a miscreant the person was for demanding ransom for a domain name some suggested death for this person. I'm assuming that y'all aren't really advocating violence? Just "guy trash talking?"

Ie:

Such theft is, as far as I know, not strictly illegal, but I'd happily use the thieves for target practice, or just watch them slowly die in agony after nailing them to a cross.

I will be attempting to remain patient while we wait for the POS to be revealed and the time and place of the "correction" to his/her/their moral failure.

I have plenty of nylon rope in 1/2" as well as 3/4" and even some 1" if it might be needed. Just gimme a shout and I'll be happy to send it along.

Knots of all types provided for free in this case.

A good ole fashioned Texas sleigh ride may be appropriate for the vermin... :occasion14:

Elias - Thank you for keeping folks informed about what's happening with the website!

Moonbeam, yes the overly-aggressive remarks are purely rustic rhetoric of a harmless sort. However, as more people will be viewing thiese forums in coming times, it would probably be good if we cleaned up our comments enough so that we were not mis-interpreted as condoning violence.  The Mental Militia does  not condone violence, and everyone whom you quoted is known to me to be completely non-aggressive. Still, some folks out there in the vast world at large will misconstrue anything written, so as to use a careless comment against a group or a forum such as ours, so I'd like to see such comments at the least clarified in writing to be the "loose-talk jests" as they were intended to be understood by readers. Even better, practicing how not so even say such things would be a wonderful step in the right direction, such as, uhm, cleaning up one's mind fields, right? ;)

You're welcome about my keeping folks informed about the website for Oath Keepers, but at present moment I've got nothing to offer except a blank stare. I will let all know when it comes back, that's for sure.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 08, 2016, 11:56:55 pm
So . . . this horse goes into the bar. . . . and the bartender asked, "Hey, why the long face"
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 12:11:41 am
...and the horse says, "They took down my site. Give me a double.."
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 12:19:48 am
Klapton, I deleted the post in which we both had edited.
I have a question for you.
If you were me, would you give you a time-out, or just lock the thread?
Which do you recommend, Klapton?
It's time to pull out Bro. You've been sucker-punched and you can get off the hook, so I'm going to help you out. You pick which would work best, or better yet, just drop off this thread and go smoke a joint or something. But whatever you do, you're not going to keep playing this game here. Get smart, Bro. Get smart quick please. Thank you!

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 09, 2016, 01:13:44 am
Registering yesterday and posting 20 times in those few hours. . . .. . I'm leaning towards a "torpedo" with a purpose as any sailor would say.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 02:16:10 am
Gentle reminder. This thread is about the Oath Keepers site being down at present time. This thread is not about anyone posting on this thread. I would like to ask all readers here to please help me out here by keeping on topic. That would be awesome. Thank you,
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SamCarter on May 09, 2016, 08:00:17 am
Elias, I just attempted to post a few questions to you on the subject and for the fourth time on this thread, when I click post I get a page unavailable message; the same kind I get when trying to access the OK site.  I wont try to repost those questions as it makes me feel like a writer trying to rewrite a novel after a transcript has been stolen :laugh: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 09, 2016, 08:09:23 am
FWIW, the issue regarding Rhodes was brought up here at TMM back in November 2015:

https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=35373.msg440688#msg440688

BeenThere, welcome to the forum! I hope you're not discouraged by the pile on, and do hope you consider sticking around. I suspect you have some quality input.

Moonbeam, thank you for the welcome.  I am not discouraged by the pile on.  Spirited discussion is invigorating.  What is discouraging is the failure of some to see how this series of "mistakes" by Rhodes will impact Oathkeepers.

And thanks for that link to the previous discussion. Silver's comments are spot-on.  He hit the nail squarely on the head when he wrote "Stewart's got a lot of 'splainin to do.  Abandoning clients is an absolute no-no.  He disgraces himself and anything he touches with such grossly unethical behavior. . . The OKs have an existential crisis on their hands - who will follow a man who screws those who trust him?"
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 09, 2016, 08:11:12 am
Elias, I just attempted to post a few questions to you on the subject and for the fourth time on this thread, when I click post I get a page unavailable message; the same kind I get when trying to access the OK site.  I wont try to repost those questions as it makes me feel like a writer trying to rewrite a novel after a transcript has been stolen :laugh: :rolleyes:

Strange. I haven't had that problem. I wonder what's causing it.

oathkeepers.org is still going to a GoDaddy domain parking page. The site is still there, revealed by the /etc/hosts trick of setting its IP to 209.188.24.130.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 09, 2016, 09:15:41 am
Klapton, I deleted the post in which we both had edited.
I have a question for you.
If you were me, would you give you a time-out, or just lock the thread?
Which do you recommend, Klapton?

Do whatever you want.  If I were you, and this was my forum, I would have spoken my mind the same as I have.  But then, that's why Stewart fired me from the other forum.  Some people need to fuck themselves, and someone should tell them to.

EDIT:  So, do whatever you want.  The really sad thing is that this is the most interesting discussion that's happened here in a long time.

EDIT 2:  I'm also unsure what you mean by "sucker punched."  These are words on the internet.  I am unharmed.  So is the state-worshiping minion of the prison-industrial complex I was talking to.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 01:12:05 pm
Klapton, I deleted the post in which we both had edited.
I have a question for you.
If you were me, would you give you a time-out, or just lock the thread?
Which do you recommend, Klapton?

Do whatever you want.  If I were you, and this was my forum, I would have spoken my mind the same as I have.  But then, that's why Stewart fired me from the other forum.  Some people need to fuck themselves, and someone should tell them to.

EDIT:  So, do whatever you want.  The really sad thing is that this is the most interesting discussion that's happened here in a long time.

EDIT 2:  I'm also unsure what you mean by "sucker punched."  These are words on the internet.  I am unharmed.  So is the state-worshiping minion of the prison-industrial complex I was talking to.

.

I am not going to have time to go through all this with you in a way that might help you understand about psychological operations and the operators who use psychology on YOUR MIND to defeat you. Nobody around here seems to be able to take a hint, and that is not a good sign for a place calling itself a "Mental" militia. Sheesh! Klapton, I think that we want to attack ideas here, not the people who introduce whichever idea is presented. You do not know anything about this guy, but you decided in your infinite wisdom that he must be an agent of some kind and so you jumped all over it but you fell into the trap of attacking HIM instead of what he was saying. Dude, that's a very elemental, primary policy here -- that we do not make ad hominem attacks.

What I would have done, had I been in your shoes, is keep the lid on my suspicions and deal with what, as you said, are the WORDS, instead of trying to do combat with the PERSON sending up the words. He's got you looking like an eager fool and has lured you into violating one of the core principles of this place by getting hooked (fixated) on him as a person instead of what he is saying, and the more he tempted you the deeper into this trap you plunged yourself.  It's Psy-War, Bro. We gotta be cool, calm, and centered in our own purpose, which is the open expression of and discussion of topics and subjects, without the ad hominem baggage. We have to be in charge of our own mental states. We do not want someone we don't even know, who shows all the classic signs of fedgov agent antics, to set the tone of our own individual private minds, isn't that true? Whether he is a fedgov psy-warrior or not is not the problem. The problem is how can we hold our ground and advance our cause without violating our own terms of service, for when we violate ourselves ("fuck" ourselves, in your terminology, which I find distasteful on a public forum, btw hint hint hint), the dude "wins".  Self control, Bro. Self control. Rise above the level of the temptor, the provocateur, the Govlish psy-warrior tactics.

Ad hominem attacks are not the purpose of this forum, and I know that you know that as well as I do. So get a grip, Bro. Attack the meaning in his messages if you disagree with what he is saying, but please do not lock horns in pitiful third-grader-type back-and-forth with silliness like the two of you were locking into. I asked him to give the forum an introduction as to who he was, or what he was, by asking him whether he owns an operation of his own, and of course he was not interested in answering my request. That is on the board now, and readers can see who has the high ground; but, had I jumped him the way you did, readers would also see that I had forfeited the high ground myself and had succumbed to grade-school-level folly -- "Did!" "Did NOT!" "Did too!" "Did not!".... etc etc. Klapton, THAT sort of thing is less than intelligent and will not be tolerated here if I happen to see it.  It is not the mark of a superior mental warrior. I expect self-control, intelligent assessment, calculated use of one's mental assets by any Mentalitian. We're called The "Mental" Militia for a reason.

You have been around for a long time, and I respect you. This is just a heads-up, and perhaps a teaching moment for other readers here. The thread is about the Oath Keepers forum being down or inaccessible. It is not about a newbie's tasteless meanderings into the personal life of the founder of Oath Keepers.  Jake said,

Quote
Registering yesterday and posting 20 times in those few hours. . . .. . I'm leaning towards a "torpedo" with a purpose as any sailor would say.

That was all that was necessary, as an oblique observation without attack, and is now on the board for all readers to ponder. I think it was some singer named Kenny Rogers who said we gotta "know when to hold 'em; know when to fold 'em."  I've given the dude enough lee-way to expose himself, so I do not need to make a pronouncement about his ulterior motive in being here. As he reads this, he will know his own limits, and from there I'll take care of it without sacrificing my advantage. It's psy-war, Bro. Some in our world want Oath Keepers destroyed because of the damage Oath Keepers does to the globalizing socialist bankers who seek our further, tighter enslavement. It's a real war, a psy-war, and we're here to win it, not to be jerked around by people with their own axes to grind. So stick around and enjoy the show. But don't pull the trigger before un-holsterng your piece, yes? That can cause a good man to shoot himself in the foot. ;)

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on May 09, 2016, 01:18:31 pm
I don't think he's a fedgov agent.  I think he's a house-n*gger who's mad because someone defied his massah and appears to have gotten away with it.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 01:23:20 pm
Elias, I just attempted to post a few questions to you on the subject and for the fourth time on this thread, when I click post I get a page unavailable message; the same kind I get when trying to access the OK site.  I wont try to repost those questions as it makes me feel like a writer trying to rewrite a novel after a transcript has been stolen :laugh: :rolleyes:

Hey SamCarter, I'm not sure what the problem is, but it may be something on your computer's configurations. I see that this one got posted, so maybe your troubles are past now? Please let me know if you continue to encounter any more problems. You can contact me at --

info@thementalmilitia.net

Thanks Bro. Oh -- also, if I'm going to write an epistle of any length, I often go to a word file page and write it there, then paste it into the text box here, and either way, I "select all" often and save as I go. I've lost so many hours over the years myself, and hste it! Very sorry for the difficulty.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WAKING ENIGMA on May 09, 2016, 01:55:07 pm
I don't think he's a fedgov agent.  I think he's a house-n*gger whose mad because someone defied his massah and appears to have gotten away with it.

.

WOW!

That certainly hits the lowest standards, even for you. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 09, 2016, 02:06:00 pm
I've given the dude enough lee-way to expose himself, so I do not need to make a pronouncement about his ulterior motive in being here. As he reads this, he will know his own limits, and from there I'll take care of it without sacrificing my advantage. It's psy-war, Bro. Some in our world want Oath Keepers destroyed because of the damage Oath Keepers does to the globalizing socialist bankers who seek our further, tighter enslavement. It's a real war, a psy-war, and we're here to win it, not to be jerked around by people with their own axes to grind.
Salute!
Elias

You don't need to make any pronouncements because you have already made your opinion clear. You have every right to be suspicious and question someone's motives. If the information is false, it is an easy call. It is much more difficult to discern whether someone is an enemy, or a potential friend and ally, when they speak the truth.  As Moonbeam pointed out, the news about Rhodes' screw ups was already discussed here.  Some time later, a poster mentions Rhodes' subsequent disbarment and right away it is "shoot the messenger."  An unintential messenger, because the message is one that everybody should have already known.  Those that did know, do not want others to know.  A good example of groupthink and the psychology of institutions.

It isn't easy, but you have to be able to figure out when someone is trying to warn you of certain ruin if you continue down the road you're on.

My opinions about the viability of Oathkeepers and it's members are becoming more crystallized as I consider all the reactions posted here.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 09, 2016, 02:25:15 pm
It isn't easy, but you have to be able to figure out when someone is trying to warn you of certain ruin if you continue down the road you're on.

My opinions about the viability of Oathkeepers and it's members are becoming more crystallized as I consider all the reactions posted here.

Whether Stewart's disbarment has a long-term effect on Oathkeepers viability seems questionable to me. Not everybody does the diligence that you're doing on a group's leadership. Most just have some friends that recommend it, and they follow along. This was news to me, but I'm not an oath taker, and bloody unlikely to ever be, so I have no interest in joining oath keepers.

I wonder about the viability of a group that can't get its web site back up quickly after a little problem like this. Assuming they still own the domain, which I don't really know at this point, it's a simple problem of configuring a DNS server to point at the still working web site, or so it seems to me, though there could be subtleties I don't know about, e.g. the perp could have damaged things I haven't yet noticed. Maybe an hour of work.

And even if they HAVE lost the domains, buying a two new domains plus privacy service for a year costs less than $30 and adds 5 or 10 minutes to that hour, plus a few more minutes to configure WordPress and the forum software with the new top-level domain.

I'm also curious about why the web site is so slow. I would think it's now running with no traffic, but it still takes a very long time to respond. Oversubscribed shared server? Misconfigured Apache? Fixing this could mean moving to a new server, which is more work.

I'm tempted to volunteer to fix it, but I'm pretty close to oversubscribed myself.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Splash22 on May 09, 2016, 02:41:27 pm
There is an old Hebrew proverb that feels like it can be applied here.

"When the ox stumbles, all wet their knives"

~S
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 03:10:08 pm
Klapton, unless I somehow messed up the process over in the Admin section, your posting privileges are now withdrawn for a couple of days.
When (if) you come back, you'd best know how to comply with out standards here. Next time I have to deal with your insolence will be the last time. And when (if) you do come back, I'd like to request that you clean up your language. This place is not some public restroom wall for insensitive scribbles. I expect maturity by post-makers here, and there shall be respect for our readers. I did the Marines, I did Viet Nam, and I've been around the block a few times, so I know how to talk with offensive vulgarity, but I don't do that here and you are not going to do it either. You will respect this place. Enjoy your vacation.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Mr. Bill on May 09, 2016, 03:27:49 pm
...Assuming they still own the domain, which I don't really know at this point, it's a simple problem of configuring a DNS server to point at the still working web site, or so it seems to me, though there could be subtleties I don't know about, e.g. the perp could have damaged things I haven't yet noticed. Maybe an hour of work. ...

I am guessing from the limited info that's available, but I suspect the Bad Guy either stole/guessed a password or did some social engineering, got access to Oath Keeper's account at the domain name registrar, and changed the password and the IP address of the domain.  If that's the case, Oath Keepers would now be in the position of trying to prove to the domain name registrar that this happened and they are the rightful owners.  That might take a while.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 04:56:19 pm

You don't need to make any pronouncements because you have already made your opinion clear. You have every right to be suspicious and question someone's motives. If the information is false, it is an easy call.

I have no question at all about he veracity of the information you have posited. I feel that the facts speak for themselves, and you are correct about the disbarment. I am not pleased to see that information, but I am not questioning its veracity. Contrary to what some may think, and although I was aware of mishandling of the cases in Arizona, I yet was totally unaware of the court's action against Stewart.

Quote
It is much more difficult to discern whether someone is an enemy, or a potential friend and ally, when they speak the truth.  As Moonbeam pointed out, the news about Rhodes' screw ups was already discussed here.  Some time later, a poster mentions Rhodes' subsequent disbarment and right away it is "shoot the messenger." 

Your error is in thinking that because I did not like the message I was therefore "shooting the messenger". That ain't it. I do not want TMM to be involved in any way with the fate of Oath Keepers. If Stewart has some karma to deal with, that is Stewart's business and Oath Keepers' business, not mine or TMM's. I have my reasons for wanting to remain outside the sphere of Stewart's personal situations, and those reasons have to do with the welfare of the liberty movement in this country. When the messenger is obviously obsessed with a personal vendetta and allows his own animosity against a friend to ride in on the skirts of truthful message, the messenger puts himself at risk of being confused with the message. Go ahead and wrap your mind around that and rebut it if you think you can.

Quote
An unintential messenger, because the message is one that everybody should have already known.  Those that did know, do not want others to know.  A good example of groupthink and the psychology of institutions.


I think that you presume too much in expecting that all readers here would have previously known about this, but that is understandable. I do lament, however, that once you saw the surprise factor in responses here you gleefully pounced all over it by stating your predictions of doom and gloom for Oath Keepers and you took pleasure in denouncing Stewart. Regarding your assertion that those who did know do not want others to know, let me hit you with a dose of reality -- speaking for myself only, I'll say that the truth always outs, and I am a friend to the truth, and a man who creates for himself in this world a platform from which to preach his own message is certainly obligated to live up to the meaning inherent in his message, or he exposes himself as a fraud. So a court in Arizona figured Stewart violated his Oath, generally speaking, and a court in Montana agreed with the assertion of non-performance or inadequate performance or below-standards performance, and concurred with the Arizona court and rendered a judgment. That is truth, and I see no reason to try to hide it.

However, I also see no reason to take up a bullhorn and shout it from the mountain tops, and, (try to get your head around this concept please) there is a much greater vulnerability here, for literally millions of good people, than the combined entirety of Stewart Rhodes life and works. It is much larger than the man, or any single man.

Another reason why TMM is not the place or vehicle for expounding on the "truth" of Stewart's disbarment is because TMM is not affiliated with Oath Keepers. TMM does possess a sense of dignity. We chanced to be involved in the history of the formation of Oath Keepers, but we are not Oath Keepers and have no actual relationship with Oath Keepers. What is Oath Keepers business is Oath Keepers business. What is TMM's business is not Oath Keepers business. TMM and Oath Keepers are two different operations owned by two different men. TMM is not about to play some sort of "pile-on" game with Oath Keepers, because TMM sees the great advantages Oath Keepers has given this nation in a crucial time in our history. I have yet to see you praise all the good things Stewart Rhodes and Oath Keepers has done, so you may want to take a note of that and try to be more comprehensive about your assessments, right?

Quote
It isn't easy, but you have to be able to figure out when someone is trying to warn you of certain ruin if you continue down the road you're on.

Well, that "warning" is to be sent to Stewart and the Board of Directors at Oath Keepers. TMM is not on that road, is not involved with Oath Keepers policy or activity. I'd really appreciate it if you would grok that fully and then speak accordingly henceforth, yes? Thanks.

Quote
My opinions about the viability of Oathkeepers and it's members are becoming more crystallized as I consider all the reactions posted here.

Form your opinions any way you wish, and believe in them if you're into "belief"; however, the viability of Oath Keepers is a query for you but is not a query for me, as I'm quite busy building The Mental Militia's new website and dealing with a large group of organizations which are "doing" things, making a difference in the pubic mental states, and are transparently honorable in every way. Such are the standards I respect, and such are the standards I intend to honor as The Mental Militia steps up to the plate on behalf of liberty and freedom by forming Psy-Ops against the globalists' drive for a one-world government.

Allow me one more degree of leniency before I close this and get back to my work. Your great concern, the reason you want to make sure everyone knows that Oath Keepers is in grave danger of "demise", rings false to me when I consider how recklessly and incessantly you repeat your "truth" about Stewart Rhodes. It seems to me, (and correct me please if I'm wrong on this), that you want to use Stewart's errors in a way which would cause people to lose faith in the mission of Oath Keepers itself. So I will suggest to you and all other readers here that the Oath Keepers mission is not going away, no matter what Stewart's personal fate may be. All over America many thousands of people "got the message" and now know how to form CPTs in their communities. Thousands also know the truer meaning in that Oath all cops and soldiers and firefighters take to the Constitution, and that knowledge will not disappear but instead will continue to spread. I feel that that is a good thing, a blessing which came from the vision of Stewart Rhodes, but is a vision which is no longer dependent on Stewart alone. He has launched it over the past seven years, and it will stick, no matter what he does with his personal life. But please do say if you would like to see the mission of the Oath go forward, or if you feel that since Stewart is fatally marked as being a fallible human being capable of making a mistake or an error in judgment, and that since he is the founder of Oath Keepers, then it logically follows that the Oath Keepers mission is also an error slipped into the public consciousness by some sordid trick of fate. I would appreciate your remarks in response to that.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 09, 2016, 04:56:59 pm
There is an old Hebrew proverb that feels like it can be applied here.

"When the ox stumbles, all wet their knives"

~S

Amen! Thank you for that bit of wisdom.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: BeenThere on May 09, 2016, 08:51:08 pm
But please do say if you would like to see the mission of the Oath go forward, or if you feel that since Stewart is fatally marked as being a fallible human being capable of making a mistake or an error in judgment, and that since he is the founder of Oath Keepers, then it logically follows that the Oath Keepers mission is also an error slipped into the public consciousness by some sordid trick of fate. I would appreciate your remarks in response to that.
Salute!
Elias

Since you asked for my remarks, you shall have them.

Please do not use logical fallacies such as you have presented. They muddy the water.
 
We are all fallible beings, we all make mistakes.  What Rhodes has done goes far beyond a simple mistake or error in judgement.  It was a supreme [Deleted by Elias Alias], a massive [Deleted by Elias Alias], one injurious decision after another.  Did you read the court documents?  You make it sound like it was no big deal, like he gave someone regular instead of decaf.  He proved himself unethical and untrustworthy, by misrepresenting himself and his clients, then abandoning them in their time of need. Read, slowly, the post by Silver, linked to by Moonbeam, then come back and tell us once more that it's just a mistake or error in judgement.

It goes right to the character of the man.  He violated his oath, and there has been no evidence presented that he attempted to make things right or even apologize.  He then refused to answer any questions as to why he misrepresented himself to a federal court and his clients, or why he abandoned them.  As a result, he was booted out of his profession.  Is that how an honorable man, who made a simple mistake, behaves?  How can he violate one oath, and then convince others to follow theirs?  It is the epitome of hypocrisy.

Looking at other court documents, it is apparent he has a family.  Does an honorable man allow his means of supporting them be taken away without a fight?  How does he uphold his duty, his obligations, to them now?

His reputation is ruined, by his own doing, in the eyes of those to whom duty, honor, fulfilling your obligations, and keeping your word still mean something.  Try to grok that.

You ask if I would like to see the mission of OK go forward.  My answer is yes, and I really don't care anymore whether you believe that or not.  You are right, the mission is separate from the man.  The honorable man will remove himself from the mission when he becomes a liability.

You wrote, "I have my reasons for wanting to remain outside the sphere of Stewart's personal situations, and those reasons have to do with the welfare of the liberty movement in this country." Since you are an OK editor, and someone who probably has access to Rhodes' ear, it sounds like an admission that Rhodes and his "personal situations" could be detrimental to "the welfare of the liberty movement."  Please elaborate.

You also wrote, "If Stewart has some karma to deal with, that is Stewart's business and Oath Keepers' business, not mine."  Are you not an Oathkeeper? Are you not someone who is active in OK?   Then it is your business.  It is the business of everyone in an organization to make sure that all display the judgement and character that is expected.  Isn't that at the very foundation of Oathkeepers?

I also see no need to "shout from the mountaintops."  I do see a need for the members of any organization to know exactly who it's leaders are. As you said, "It is much larger than the man, or any single man." Which is why, again, the honorable man would remove himself from the mission when he might hurt it.

The enemies of OK already know this information about it's leader, yet it seems you and others prefer that his own followers remain ignorant. 

Granted, he did a great thing by starting OK, but Rhodes is now a huge liability. As Silver said, OK has an existential crisis.  Telling people "Shh, keep your voices down about Rhodes"  will not help matters.

You say you are his friend, yet you behave like he's just someone who works in the next cubicle when you write "I have my reasons for wanting to remain outside the sphere of Stewart's personal situations." Friends are aware of "personal situations," they give counsel, they seek counsel. Try to grok that while you're at it.

Finally, you have the audacity to say "TMM is not the place or vehicle for expounding on the "truth" of Stewart's disbarment is because TMM is not affiliated with Oath Keepers."  Come on, now.  You are an Oathkeeper, you work for the organization, and this thread is under the Oath-Keepers topic, which is under Partner Sites.  Don't piss on my leg then tell me it's raining. 

I could go on, but this will do for now.





Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 09, 2016, 09:26:11 pm
 :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Eagle Eye on May 09, 2016, 10:38:38 pm
Been there,

Why don't you start your own string of discussion? 

Besides, I've been a member of OK going on two years. A lifetime member. I recall Stewart being very open about the disbarment. That has been made clear. Why do you feel it necessary to keep dragging this on?  Either you are a Oath Keeper, or not. We are happy to see you go your own way.

Oath Keepers are a way of life. It isn't a about any one person. The viability of our mission lies in the oaths and hearts of our membership. It lies in our combined ability to remind others their responsibility upholding the oaths they took when assuming their rolls of public service.

Do you really believe the actions or failures of one member matters?  Even if our founder?  It does not. Because the bottom line is the reason we are here in the first place. It supersedes individual actions or failures. It is bigger than any individual. It is a firm belief in our founding covenant between We The People and the government we allow to represent us at the Federal level.

If you believe you can taint Oath Keepers by your mean spirited words, take it somewhere else Sir.

Also, why don't you use your real name? Mine is Kenneth D. Flauding. How about yours?  Personally, I smell a Troll.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: jamie on May 09, 2016, 10:41:28 pm
Been there,

Why don't you start your own string of discussion? 

Besides, I've been a member of OK going on two years. A lifetime member. I recall Stewart being very open about the disbarment. That has been made clear. Why do you feel it necessary to keep dragging this on?  Either you are a Oah Keeper, or not. We are happy to see you go your own way. Oath Keepers are a way of life. It isn't a about any one person. The viability of our mission lies in the oaths and hearts of our membership. It lies in our combined ability to remind others their responsibility upholding the oaths they took when assuming their rolls of public service.

Do you really believe the actions or failures of one member matters?  Even if our founder?  It does not. Because the bottom line is the reason we are here in the first place. It supersedes individual actions or failures. It is bigger than any individual. It is a firm belief in our founding covenant between We The People and the government we allow to represent us at the Federal level.

If you believe you can taint Oath Keepers by your mean spirited words, take it somewhere else Sir.

Also, why don't you use your real name? Mine is Kenneth D. Flauding. How about yours?  Personally, I smell a Troll.

  Well said.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 10, 2016, 02:13:51 am
Bill,

Other than the bad web page of the proposed perks, is there any other way of detecting ghost IP addresses or an address at all?  Any detectable trail?

I am beginning to feel that it is the work of someone larger and the events since last October or November are a string of calculated procedure in nature.

But, what do I know.  I have but one squinty eye and yam what Iz em.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 03:11:54 am
But please do say if you would like to see the mission of the Oath go forward, or if you feel that since Stewart is fatally marked as being a fallible human being capable of making a mistake or an error in judgment, and that since he is the founder of Oath Keepers, then it logically follows that the Oath Keepers mission is also an error slipped into the public consciousness by some sordid trick of fate. I would appreciate your remarks in response to that.
Salute!
Elias

Since you asked for my remarks, you shall have them.

Please do not use logical fallacies such as you have presented. They muddy the water.
 
We are all fallible beings, we all make mistakes.  What Rhodes has done goes far beyond a simple mistake or error in judgement.  It was a supreme [Deleted by Elias], a massive [Deleted by Elias], one injurious decision after another.  Did you read the court documents?  You make it sound like it was no big deal, like he gave someone regular instead of decaf.

Jeez, Mon! If I make it sound trivial, you make it sound like he murdered 20 children in a burning church!   


Quote
He proved himself unethical and untrustworthy, by misrepresenting himself and his clients, then abandoning them in their time of need.


And so the court has ordered him to be executed, right? I mean, this varmint was so despicable that the court has given him the death sentence, yes? Oh, you may opine, no, the court did not sentence him to death. Well, if you think that, you're right. He has not been sentenced to death, nor even to prison, so why don't you go jump down the throats of the miserable Montana Supreme Court and sue them for failing to execute a known monster? Have you sent Jennifer Jones or Michael Roth a damned red cent from your own pocket? I did not think so, and I also don't think you give a damn about them. You are just using them to feed your own pathological fixation on destroying Stewart Rhodes. As Bill indicated by his little "beating a dead horse" graphic, that is all you are doing, all you think about, all you can focus on, all you can talk about. So do go ahead and sue Montana for not executing this horrid villain, unless you, too, are a man who will not do the "right thing". You know they've let a major criminal off the hook, so go take it up with the Montana Judiciary. Heck, petition the ACLU to seek justice for Michael and Jennifer and seek justice to ensure that Stewart is properly punished.

Quote
Read, slowly, the post by Silver, linked to by Moonbeam, then come back and tell us once more that it's just a mistake or error in judgement.

It goes right to the character of the man.  He violated his oath, and there has been no evidence presented that he attempted to make things right or even apologize.  He then refused to answer any questions as to why he misrepresented himself to a federal court and his clients, or why he abandoned them.  As a result, he was booted out of his profession.  Is that how an honorable man, who made a simple mistake, behaves?  How can he violate one oath, and then convince others to follow theirs?  It is the epitome of hypocrisy.

I'll have to read that later, as I'm a bit busy right now.

Quote
Looking at other court documents, it is apparent he has a family.  Does an honorable man allow his means of supporting them be taken away without a fight?  How does he uphold his duty, his obligations, to them now? His reputation is ruined, by his own doing, in the eyes of those to whom duty, honor, fulfilling your obligations, and keeping your word still mean something.  Try to grok that.

Heh! You are such a trip. I know who you are now. Yep. I've given you enough rope to expose yourself, and in expressing yourself, you have revealed yourself. You are probably going to shift your fixation from Stewart onto me when I do for you what I should have done two or three pages back in this thread, but I'll tell you something -- your pathology does not frighten me. Heh! Dang! Can't believe it took me this long to figure it out, er, make that read, "...took this long for you to show me who you are."

Quote
You ask if I would like to see the mission of OK go forward.  My answer is yes, and I really don't care anymore whether you believe that or not.  You are right, the mission is separate from the man.  The honorable man will remove himself from the mission when he becomes a liability.

Oh yes, you would know all about that. Well, I'm not going to remove myself from my mission, and I'm not going to wait for you to remove yourself from my mission!  ;)

Quote
You wrote, "I have my reasons for wanting to remain outside the sphere of Stewart's personal situations, and those reasons have to do with the welfare of the liberty movement in this country." Since you are an OK editor, and someone who probably has access to Rhodes' ear, it sounds like an admission that Rhodes and his "personal situations" could be detrimental to "the welfare of the liberty movement."  Please elaborate.


Sorry Budrow, no "elaboration" for you. You would not understand or comprehend if I explained it for you.

Quote
You also wrote, "If Stewart has some karma to deal with, that is Stewart's business and Oath Keepers' business, not mine."  Are you not an Oathkeeper? Are you not someone who is active in OK?   Then it is your business.  It is the business of everyone in an organization to make sure that all display the judgement and character that is expected.  Isn't that at the very foundation of Oathkeepers?

I just can't thank you enough for telling me my business. Darn nice of you. But shoot, Mon! Maybe you should consider minding your own business, eh? I suggest you take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning. Be sure to let him know you're off your meds.

Quote
I also see no need to "shout from the mountaintops."  I do see a need for the members of any organization to know exactly who it's leaders are. As you said, "It is much larger than the man, or any single man." Which is why, again, the honorable man would remove himself from the mission when he might hurt it.

The enemies of OK already know this information about it's leader, yet it seems you and others prefer that his own followers remain ignorant.

Granted, he did a great thing by starting OK, but Rhodes is now a huge liability. As Silver said, OK has an existential crisis.  Telling people "Shh, keep your voices down about Rhodes"  will not help matters.

If I was trying to hide anything, your exaggerated and distorted silliness would not be on this thread's pages. Deal with that. 

Quote
You say you are his friend, yet you behave like he's just someone who works in the next cubicle when you write "I have my reasons for wanting to remain outside the sphere of Stewart's personal situations." Friends are aware of "personal situations," they give counsel, they seek counsel. Try to grok that while you're at it.

Well thank you for teaching me the facts of friendship. Now I know how to relate to my friends. You are just the nicest gift to my day. I'm thankful you're not charging me for your professional psychiatric treatments.

Quote
Finally, you have the audacity to say "TMM is not the place or vehicle for expounding on the "truth" of Stewart's disbarment is because TMM is not affiliated with Oath Keepers."  Come on, now.  You are an Oathkeeper, you work for the organization, and this thread is under the Oath-Keepers topic, which is under Partner Sites.  Don't piss on my leg then tell me it's raining. 

I could go on, but this will do for now.

LOL! Well, someone is pissing someone, that's for sure, tee-hee!
I know who you are, so guess who wins, eh? Never mind. you won't have time to guess. You'll be leaving now.

Salute!
Elias
Editing in to add -- I meant to also thank you for letting me know about the disbarment. I really did not know about that. And to correct a misspelling.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 10, 2016, 05:04:01 am
https://www.oathkeepers.org is back up. Very slow, but working.

http://www.oathkeepers.net, the forums, is not yet working. It gets a NameCheap parking page.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 05:48:34 am
https://www.oathkeepers.org is back up. Very slow, but working.

http://www.oathkeepers.net, the forums, is not yet working. It gets a NameCheap parking page.

Yup. I found 36 comments waiting and one spam.
Message from Stewart is that the site will be ready this morning, but the forums at the dot net site are still "iffey".
Stewart says he will make an announcement and have it sent to the full membership.
You are always fast, always on the ball, Bill. Thanks Amigo.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 10, 2016, 06:17:47 am
Message from Stewart is that the site will be ready this morning, but the forums at the dot net site are still "iffey".

If they've lost oathkeepers.net, I'd think replacing it with another domain name wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem as replacing oathkeepers.org. Anybody accustomed to going directly to oathkeepers.net for the forums, would check the main site when it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Kurt on May 10, 2016, 07:24:44 am
I don't comment here often, but do check the new posts here every few days or so to see what's going on.  This topic has dominated the "view the most recent posts" recently and just had to throw in my two cents.  Attorneys take an oath too, in Montana the oath requires that an attorney "faithfully discharge the duties of an attorney with fidelity to the best of his or her knowledge and ability (http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/37/61/37-61-207.htm)".

Abandoning two clients (Roth and Jones) after agreeing to represent them is not faithfully discharging your duties as an attorney.  He could have notified them he was quitting the cases, but instead didn't even respond to the complaint filed by Roth, and Jones finally had to write the judge in her case stating, “I have been unable to reach my attorney, Elmer Stewart Rhodes, for several weeks”.  Once Mr. Rhodes decided he didn't intend to honor that oath any longer then it was his responsibility to formally notify those that took his oath to that effect - not wait until they threw him out for, basically, failing to live up to it.

IMO, once the website issues are fixed the OKs need to find a new leader.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: ArcLighter on May 10, 2016, 08:51:03 am
quote, in part:
IMO, once the website issues are fixed the OKs need to find a new leader.

There has been considerable dissention amongst the ranks on OK (To Dissent is Patriotic) in the last few months.  It looks like nearly all of Tennessee members left to form their own organization; and, I was banned for suggesting that Stewart resign:  "> You have been banned for the following reason: > Calling for leader change of org. > Date the ban will be lifted: Never." (JAN16)

I would have thought that Stewart had thicker skin, and could stand the gaff; but, my dissent got me banned forever.  What kind of democracy bans First Amendment Speech?  And, yes, I know the rules on these forums; it's Elias' territory, and he reserves the right to kick me, or anyone else, out -- I read the rules.

V/R
ArcLighter
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Moonbeam on May 10, 2016, 12:31:35 pm
BeenThere – I would have liked to have sent you a Private Message so as not to highjack this thread, however that service is unavailable at the moment. I have looked over your posts again and don’t believe you are a troll, agent, or have a personal agenda. It appears to me that you have just been treading water not actually making progress. That is, you have been merely replying to other’s comments. Too bad –I think you might be a good swimmer who can really go places! :laugh:

I think I understand what you meant about Stewart resigning. If a doctor was caught having an adulterous affair with a patient, he should resign so as not to bring down the whole practice (and his colleagues). If the CFO of Girl Scouts was caught skimming money she should resign so as not to taint the whole organization. If a marriage counselor was in the midst of a nasty divorce, perhaps he should suspend his counseling until the issue is resolved. Of course, in those examples there might be some employment contingencies put in place to protect the reputation of the organization.

It would appear that you are willing to separate the man in question from the mission/purpose of Oath Keepers. If that’s case, I would think that would be acceptable to the readers here.

I would suggest you tootle around in the other areas of this forum. I for one would like to see you weigh in on other topics (hopefully there is something floating around these halls that would whet your appetite!). I was surprised to see Klapton temporarily banned from posting and I am concerned that would happen to the new guy (assuming you’re male). This is Elias’ house so to speak. A few pages back he did ask to folks to drop the issue. Please consider respecting the host’s wishes –which doesn’t mean you agree with them –you’re just showing respect the same way you would if you were physically in his home.

Again, I would like to see your contributions elsewhere so dig into the archives –lots of gems in there!

Blessings,
Moon
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 12:43:51 pm
BeenThere – I would have liked to have sent you a Private Message so as not to highjack this thread, however that service is unavailable at the moment. I have looked over your posts again and don’t believe you are a troll, agent, or have a personal agenda. It appears to me that you have just been treading water not actually making progress. That is, you have been merely replying to other’s comments. Too bad –I think you might be a good swimmer who can really go places! :laugh:

I think I understand what you meant about Stewart resigning. If a doctor was caught having an adulterous affair with a patient, he should resign so as not to bring down the whole practice (and his colleagues). If the CFO of Girl Scouts was caught skimming money she should resign so as not to taint the whole organization. If a marriage counselor was in the midst of a nasty divorce, perhaps he should suspend his counseling until the issue is resolved. Of course, in those examples there might be some employment contingencies put in place to protect the reputation of the organization.

It would appear that you are willing to separate the man in question from the mission/purpose of Oath Keepers. If that’s case, I would think that would be acceptable to the readers here.

I would suggest you tootle around in the other areas of this forum. I for one would like to see you weigh in on other topics (hopefully there is something floating around these halls that would whet your appetite!). I was surprised to see Klapton temporarily banned from posting and I am concerned that would happen to the new guy (assuming you’re male). This is Elias’ house so to speak. A few pages back he did ask to folks to drop the issue. Please consider respecting the host’s wishes –which doesn’t mean you agree with them –you’re just showing respect the same way you would if you were physically in his home.

Again, I would like to see your contributions elsewhere so dig into the archives –lots of gems in there!

Blessings,
Moon

It looks like Been There has been banned from posting.  He posted under a modified name a few minutes ago, but that post has disappeared.  He quoted ArcLighters post about how what he talked about is already happening in Tennessee.  Prolly other places too.

I don't think he was a troll either.  But this is Eliases place, and he can do what he wants.  But it don't look good, what he did.

Edited to add:  If anybody asks me anything here, and I don't answer, it prolly would be because I got banned too.  Just FYI.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 01:01:52 pm

It looks like Been There has been banned from posting.  He posted under a modified name a few minutes ago, but that post has disappeared.  He quoted ArcLighters post about how what he talked about is already happening in Tennessee.  Prolly other places too.

I don't think he was a troll either.  But this is Eliases place, and he can do what he wants.  But it don't look good, what he did.

Nope.

If you go back a page or so the profile page for this "person" is still active.
When someone gets banned (very rare hereabouts) their membership status "Newbie" in this case gets removed and the word Guest replaces it.

Do not know about the "other poster" whose post has disappeared.

There are several regular attempts to invade the site daily made by several well known trolls and they usually get caught and boosted out the door in the same day. It may be that that was the situation.

I will not rule out the troll moniker for Been There but I will say that his/her behavior is very much like that of an agent provocateur. (Who is convinced that this TMM IS in fact part and parcel of OK and therefore needs to be infiltrated and disrupted. Tis not so but how does one Prove a negative?)


xxx---------xxx
Edited to add:  If anybody asks me anything here, and I don't answer, it prolly would be because I got banned too.  Just FYI.
xxx---------xxx
Got a guilty conscience Opsec? Only trolls get booted here. A difference of opinion is allowed and IF proffered politely welcomed as debate.

edit to add the above

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on May 10, 2016, 01:05:05 pm
Although I am not a OK member and only have supported them in spirit and a few frn’s when they first started, I would like to share a few personal thoughts.

First, I greatly admire Stewart for his service to the country, origination of the concept, his organization of the group and the spirit he has brought forward into our country, when it was greatly needed. Regardless of what transpires, his deeds will not be forgotten.

Concerning his possibly being kicked out of a fascist organization, I personally do not consider that to be a disqualification for anything, perhaps even the opposite. Any concerns for “why” he was, is not for me to decide or wonder about but is up to Stewart to reflect upon and answer, if he wishes, in any method he should choose.

As to OK being broken up into state groups, there are several reasons why this might be beneficial. OPSEC, logistics and local control and awareness being a few. It would eliminate any negative comment concerning “outsiders”, although such concern is not mine but has been used against them.

Regardless, to Stewart, to all OK members and organizers, THANK YOU and carry on!

As my old Daddy used to say, when you just don’t know what to do, DO YOUR DUTY! I trust each and every one of you honored and blessed patriots, will do just that.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Moonbeam on May 10, 2016, 01:19:13 pm
Opsec is right: BeenThere did try another user name and that was nuked. Saw it with my own eyes. Too bad I didn't I quote it as he mentioned receiving a ban notice. Even Klapton getting temporarily banned (which is the owner's prerogative) is unsettling.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on May 10, 2016, 01:21:50 pm
Please note: I am watching this area, but will defer any action to Elias unless asked to intervene. Remember that each person may have only ONE account active at a time. Duplicate accounts, when discovered, will be terminated without warning.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 10, 2016, 01:32:28 pm
If you go back a page or so the profile page for this "person" is still active.
When someone gets banned (very rare hereabouts) their membership status "Newbie" in this case gets removed and the word Guest replaces it.

Actually, there are a few options.

These days, MamaLiberty has been mostly deleting a new account and all of its posts, because of trolling. Though we haven't seen evidence of our latest troll in a while, the one who deleted all the posts and forced me to recover from backup, I'll bet it's still around. If you delete an account, but do NOT delete the posts, then the existing posts say "Guest", and have no link on the name to the member page.

You can also use the "Ban" feature of the forum software. It can trigger on email address, username, hostname, or IP address. It can ban from posting, registering, logging in, or any combination. The ban can be forever, i.e. there until explicitly removed, or have an expiration. There is no evidence, to non-admins, that an existing member has been banned, except that I think they get a notification email, no new posts will appear, if the ban forbids posting, and the user will always be "offline", if the ban forbids logins.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 01:36:51 pm
Opsec is right: BeenThere did try another user name and that was nuked. Saw it with my own eyes. Too bad I didn't I quote it as he mentioned receiving a ban notice. Even Klapton getting temporarily banned (which is the owner's prerogative) is unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that.  da gooch says Been There wasn't banned but Klapton got banned from posting but not booted as a member of TMM.  It looks like there is a difference between banning and booting.  The only one who can answer this is Elias.

I just saw the post by Bill when I previewed my post.  So I guess that does answer the question you can get banned from posting without getting booted from the forum.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 01:40:41 pm
Please note: I am watching this area, but will defer any action to Elias unless asked to intervene. Remember that each person may have only ONE account active at a time. Duplicate accounts, when discovered, will be terminated without warning.


As am I ML.

====
FYI: duplicate accounts

For all who are not or have never been mods allow me to explain "Duplicate accounts".

They are a favorite tool of trolls to use to create the appearance of discord when they cannot create it by themselves.
The troll makes up a name and becomes the "member" who is attacking the first name to create the appearance of the first name being a victim. This is an attempt to attract defensive measures by the membership and the inexperienced mods.

Another method is to create a second "voice" sharing the same opinion as the first name to make it appear that the idea is catching on and growing when it is actually only one person sowing discord.

Some trolls will use up to six or more accounts if they are allowed.

Duplicate accounts is a dead giveaway that the poster of the same IP address is in fact a troll.
Hence a good moderator team will either block or remove any such at their first appearance.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 01:51:39 pm
Opsec is right: BeenThere did try another user name and that was nuked. Saw it with my own eyes. Too bad I didn't I quote it as he mentioned receiving a ban notice. Even Klapton getting temporarily banned (which is the owner's prerogative) is unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that.  da gooch says Been There wasn't banned but Klapton got banned from posting but not booted as a member of TMM.  It looks like there is a difference between banning and booting.  The only one who can answer this is Elias.

I just saw the post by Bill when I previewed my post.  So I guess that does answer the question you can get banned from posting without getting booted from the forum.

If you read back through the posts here you will find that Klapton got a temporary "time out" /"cool down" ban.
That is different from "being banned" from the site all together.

So to go back to the post that got removed. It was for being a duplicate account. No Matter who tried to open it they are not allowed here.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 02:03:15 pm
Opsec is right: BeenThere did try another user name and that was nuked. Saw it with my own eyes. Too bad I didn't I quote it as he mentioned receiving a ban notice. Even Klapton getting temporarily banned (which is the owner's prerogative) is unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that.  da gooch says Been There wasn't banned but Klapton got banned from posting but not booted as a member of TMM.  It looks like there is a difference between banning and booting.  The only one who can answer this is Elias.

I just saw the post by Bill when I previewed my post.  So I guess that does answer the question you can get banned from posting without getting booted from the forum.

So to go back to the post that got removed. It was for being a duplicate account. No Matter who tried to open it they are not allowed here.

Wait a minute.  BeenThere gets banned from posting, which means he can't say anything here but he is still a member with an account.  He tried to tell us that by making another account so he could post a message which was the one Moonbeam and me saw disappear.  Then we are told about a rule about duplicate accounts being deleted.  So, he has an account, which is useless, and can't make another which could be used to post.

Sounds like the sort of catch-22 the govt would make.  Your not booted out, your just sitting in limbo.  A non-person.

So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on May 10, 2016, 02:10:37 pm
So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?

Because that is what the owner of this forum chose to do after requesting that the specific topic be dropped. The owner and administrators of this forum have every right to take such actions as we find necessary. 

No "red tape," just an administrative action. I would have handled it differently... by terminating both accounts. Unless the posts were seriously inflammatory, however, attacking individuals, those posts from the terminated members would remain. I don't use any "ban," but it is not my call in this case.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 10, 2016, 02:12:55 pm
So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?

It looks to me like Elias got tired of him going on about Stewart. But I can't speak for Elias. He didn't say much about it.

I know who you are, so guess who wins, eh? Never mind. you won't have time to guess. You'll be leaving now.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 02:16:15 pm
So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?

Because that is what the owner of this forum chose to do after requesting that the specific topic be dropped. The owner and administrators of this forum have every right to take such actions as we find necessary. 

No "red tape," just an administrative action.

Wait a minute again.  Elias asked for BeenTheres remarks.  BeenThere made his remarks.  BeenThere then gets banned from posting, and then rules are used to make sure he will never be heard here again.

"Administrative action."  What double talk.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 02:21:12 pm
So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?

It looks to me like Elias got tired of him going on about Stewart. But I can't speak for Elias. He didn't say much about it.

I know who you are, so guess who wins, eh? Never mind. you won't have time to guess. You'll be leaving now.

He was going on about Stewart, but Elias asked him too!  Sounds like a set-up.
 
What does Elias mean by "I know who you are, so guess who wins, eh?"

Just in case, a reminder - if you don't hear from me, it's prolly because I got banned, or booted, or whatever such "administrative action" they want to call it.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Cherokee on May 10, 2016, 02:21:41 pm
Mayland, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina Oath Keepers also discussed separating from national and were encouraging members to pay dues locally instead of paying to national.

I know there are still members from these states who are active or semi-active in the forums. I think my national dues are paid through June (North Carolina).

I wholly support the mission of keeping the oath and reminding others of their duty to do so. It just seems there is a huge crack in Oath Keepers and not enough JB Weld.

As Elias stated,  the idea has been planted. Oath Keepers is a living idea that can't be killed,  no matter what happens with key figures.

I have my own dissatisfaction with Oath Keepers as an organization , but I will always be one. I'm still pondering whether I will renew my dues. It's really my own personal struggle. If I take Stewart's advice, I will focus more on getting my own house squared away first.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on May 10, 2016, 02:22:53 pm

Wait a minute again.  Elias asked for BeenTheres remarks.  BeenThere made his remarks.  BeenThere then gets banned from posting, and then rules are used to make sure he will never be heard here again.

"Administrative action."  What double talk.

Elias set out his reasons quite clearly here: https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=35681.msg447227#msg447227

If you do not like the rules here... the exit door is wide open.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 02:31:34 pm

Elias set out his reasons quite clearly here: https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=35681.msg447227#msg447227

If you do not like the rules here... the exit door is wide open.

All I see there is Elias being pissed off at BeenThere.  There is nothing about breaking any rules.


I need to make this my sig:
If you don't hear from me again, its because I got booted, or banned, or somesuch "administrative action."
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 02:36:23 pm
So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?

Because that is what the owner of this forum chose to do after requesting that the specific topic be dropped. The owner and administrators of this forum have every right to take such actions as we find necessary. 

No "red tape," just an administrative action.

Wait a minute again.  Elias asked for BeenTheres remarks.  BeenThere made his remarks.  BeenThere then gets banned from posting, and then rules are used to make sure he will never be heard here again.

"Administrative action."  What double talk.

Hmmm

So why was BeenThere banned from posting, and why all this effort to use red tape to keep us from hearing what he has to say?

It looks to me like Elias got tired of him going on about Stewart. But I can't speak for Elias. He didn't say much about it.

I know who you are, so guess who wins, eh? Never mind. you won't have time to guess. You'll be leaving now.

He was going on about Stewart, but Elias asked him too!  Sounds like a set-up.
 
What does Elias mean by "I know who you are, so guess who wins, eh?"

Just in case, a reminder - if you don't hear from me, it's prolly because I got banned, or booted, or whatever such "administrative action" they want to call it.


:deadhorse:
You keep going on about IF I get banned, et cetera.  Do you think that you are so important that we Must Need You to show us our faults? Are you actually trying to push the mod team into "cooling you down"? Is that your newest goal? To stir up the TMM membership by making as much stink as you can so that everyone gets all upset about the outlandish restrictions here?
NONE of the restrictions have changed.

I will echo ML's offer "the exit door is wide open."


Elias set out his reasons quite clearly here: https://secure.thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=35681.msg447227#msg447227

If you do not like the rules here... the exit door is wide open.

All I see there is Elias being pissed off at BeenThere.  There is nothing about breaking any rules.


I need to make this my sig:
If you don't hear from me again, its because I got booted, or banned, or somesuch "administrative action."

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Oh You poor baby does he need a bottle and a blankie?

The door is right over yonder.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 02:38:20 pm
This thread is about the OK website having been attacked. IF no one is going to discuss that topic then it can be closed to save bandwidth.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 02:42:44 pm

NONE of the restrictions have changed.

Wasn't complaining about the rules.  Was talking about how the rules are applied.

Quote
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Oh You poor baby does he need a bottle and a blankie?


Are you for real, dude?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 02:45:06 pm
This thread is about the OK website having been attacked. IF no one is going to discuss that topic then it can be closed to save bandwidth.

Is there really that much bandwidth being used?

But back to the topic, has anybody figured out how the domain screw-up happened?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 02:47:47 pm

NONE of the restrictions have changed.

Wasn't complaining about the rules.  Was talking about how the rules are applied.

Quote
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Oh You poor baby does he need a bottle and a blankie?


Are you for real, dude?

Much more so than you realize I'm sure.

This thread is about the OK website having been attacked. IF no one is going to discuss that topic then it can be closed to save bandwidth.

Is there really that much bandwidth being used?

But back to the topic, has anybody figured out how the domain screw-up happened?

Nice attempted save.

Let's see how long you can pretend to be actually contributing to the Original Topic shall we?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 02:49:33 pm
https://www.oathkeepers.org is back up. Very slow, but working.

http://www.oathkeepers.net, the forums, is not yet working. It gets a NameCheap parking page.

Any more recent updates Bill?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 10, 2016, 02:53:59 pm
But back to the topic, has anybody figured out how the domain screw-up happened?

Elias told me it was an inside job by a pissed off, fired admin. But that wasn't even first-person knowledge for him, so trusting me about it is probably not a good idea.

There were a few new posts up at https://www.oathkeepers.org, and the "Forums" link went to http://forum.oathkeepers.org, but that hung for me, and the site isn't responding any more. Rebooting perhaps. Or crashed.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 03:29:27 pm

All I see there is Elias being pissed off at BeenThere.  There is nothing about breaking any rules.


I need to make this my sig:
If you don't hear from me again, its because I got booted, or banned, or somesuch "administrative action."

Opsec, please cool your jets a bit, eh?
Allow me to introduce you to the only rule here -- This is my place, and if I don't want someone's trash on my site I'll get rid of it. It's just that simple. We used to have to have a vote in the (invisible) Admin section of this site before we could shut down any post-maker. That has changed. I own the copyright on The Mental Militia, and I own this site as well as the national site I'm presently building. You are free to discuss whatever you wish, but there are limits which are proscribed by common sense. For example, I will not allow "free speech" about cannibalism between consenting adults, and I will not allow talk about beastiality or postings encouraging child molestation. I am a moral man with some sense of dignity and personal taste, and I will not have my own "free speech" obliterated by idiocy which drifts in off the wide fields of the World Wide Web.

While this flurry of posting was going on I was writing a post for this thread, which I will now add to this. The rest of this post is what I was writing while you were expressing your interest in my policy (or "rules") here. I hope this will help you get a larger picture of what's actually going on here. And, btw, "gooch" was a Founding member of Oath Keepers' Board of Directors. I roomed with him in the hotel in October of 2009 at Las Vegas for Oath Keepers incorporation meeting. Until he ran out of personal money, gooch was the president of Texas Oath Keepers.  Now here is the belated post I composed. Please read it carefully and try to understand my position in all this. Thanks, Bro.
_______________________________________

Just a couple of things please.

OpSec, ArcLighter, Kurt, y'all are just fine. You are welcome here and you're welcome to your individual opinions about Oath Keepers and its leadership. Regarding Tennessee, I've personally met Jim C. who was running Tennessee Oath Keepers and think the world of him. Same goes for Larry L. of Pennsylvania Oath Keepers. Met 'em both face to face in their own States. Damn good men. There are others with the same complaints. I do not blame them for their opinions and consider them friends.

But I need for y'all to understand that I am, personally and professionally, in a very sensitive position here. It's even more tenuous than "very sensitive". I doubt that anyone here (except "Been There", who certainly knows what he was doing to me here), knows the position this thread is putting me in, just as no one really shows me any sign that they understand the dark intent of Been There. I, and The Mental Militia, are under attack by the guy, (in ways I can't expect readers here to understand, and in ways which I am prevented from discussing at this time), and I am greatly distressed.

The Mental Militia was in existence (1999) for about nine years before Oath Keepers was created (2009). We have been here at this particular forum since 2003.

Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM? Have you noticed that I began building the new national site for TMM almost a year ago? Have you contributed to TMM's movie project to help me finance this operation? Have any of you done that? Do you really want me to join in bashing Stewart Rhodes when that's the only job I've got and the public at large will not support this organization I'm trying to get launched?

Without my job I'm just another "Unemployed Poet" and an old Viet Nam Veteran just a few weeks away from standing on an on-ramp with a cardboard sign. I don't take anything from the government, no social security (although I've paid into it most of my life), no food stamps or welfare or other government handouts. I need meds which I can't afford to buy and which I refuse to go to the VA to get for free. Stewart has blessed my old age with exciting events, travels, great work against the new world order, increased knowledge, and a venue in which to express my own take on things through the written word. So it breaks my heart to see some of the more recent developments, and causes me to understand that Stewart is perhaps a very bright man in some areas, but he is not a Michelangelo or a god. I have to understand that none of us are perfect and none of us can demand that any other among us be perfect all the time either. Stewart has forgiven my short-sightedness more than once over the years. I do not demand that he be perfect. Some people do. I note that the very cognizance about the Oath that Stewart introduced into the national dialogue is now being used to condemn the man who gave them that "cognizance", that very idea. That is, in my book, a testament of the fickle and shallow nature of the group mind.

This "Been There" dude is a classic example. He has not done one damn thing for his country, has bestowed absolutely no blessings on his fellow man, has created nothing, yet has run his mouth in every way to tear down what a good man built up. And his purpose here was to marry me to Stewart's personal life, which is total aggression against my own mind, my own Self, and against my very existence in my little square log cabin in the woods. He does not care one whit about this old man, and has shown that he will use my own forum to destroy me in that way.

The guy was trying to destroy TMM by using Stewart's mistakes and forcing The Mental Militia to champion his complaints against Stewart, and I ain't gonna take that. This is my house. I own the copyright. To show you the character of the man, when, after patiently indulging his arrogance for a few pages on this thread, I finally stripped his ability to post here, he came back in on a tor account to keep on speaking his inanities here. He had been welcomed and tolerated, but proved conclusively that he had a hidden agenda, and was finally shown the door. When I shut the door on him, he used a battering ram and barged right back in, knowing he was not welcome here. Yet he wants to give me lessons about honor. If someone kicked in your cyber door at your own place, how should you interpret that? In my book it's rude and at the very best is disrespectful for another man's property and personal space. But in this one dude's case, it's much worse than that. Do y'all know what it takes to use a tor account to smash into someone's site? I cannot at this time elucidate on that, but I can assure you that this dude is not a nice person and is on a very destructive mission.

So I must ask members here to give me some slack. I do think I know who this dude is, and I do think he is no friend to anyone, and I can assure Moonbeam that he is NOT what she thinks he is.

TMM is my place, and OK is Stewart's place. You want to speak your mind, say your piece? Fine. Say what you think, as each of you have, and then get on with other things. But please consider the position you're putting me in by using my own policies of honoring free speech for all, to jeopardize my only job. Can I make it any more clear than that?

TMM is chock full of potential as America's only dedicated Psy-Op working on behalf of freedom. I've pooled some remarkable voices from around the country and am working on outstanding opportunities for strong development. No other organization is planning to do counter-psy-op activities. It's my idea, and it's going to work. I could use a little help. I do not need to be pulled into some vortex of conflict which I did not create. Let's keep our consciousness positive, help create something powerful and beautiful to share with all Americans, and work together to stop the new world order, yes? 

Thank you each for being here, and for considering my request that we go elsewhere to do whatever bashing some feel is necessary. And I must add my personal thanks to the few souls who have sent money in to help me get this operation launched properly. Thank You for sharing my vision and sending in your support.

Salute!
Elias


Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 03:30:54 pm
https://www.oathkeepers.org is back up. Very slow, but working.

http://www.oathkeepers.net, the forums, is not yet working. It gets a NameCheap parking page.

Any more recent updates Bill?

Gooch, the national site for OK is back up now. There is still a problem with the OK forums, but it's being worked on.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 03:32:42 pm
But back to the topic, has anybody figured out how the domain screw-up happened?

Elias told me it was an inside job by a pissed off, fired admin. But that wasn't even first-person knowledge for him, so trusting me about it is probably not a good idea.

There were a few new posts up at https://www.oathkeepers.org, and the "Forums" link went to http://forum.oathkeepers.org, but that hung for me, and the site isn't responding any more. Rebooting perhaps. Or crashed.

I still do not know what happened.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: FDD on May 10, 2016, 03:39:43 pm
I say lock it, until people learn the house rules around here.

but it is not my call. just my .02
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: ArcLighter on May 10, 2016, 04:31:34 pm
I can only imagine how positively gleeful lurkers here from the Southern Poverty Law Center must be to hear of the troubles at OK; probably pee-ing down their legs like some over excited puppies (no insult meant to puppies!).  While I have been banned from speaking there, who will join in a suggestion for OK to re-group with the power of a mission/purpose and constitution (like the one we have taken an Oath to defend) to renew OK like a Phoenix from the ashes to create a new, powerful, democratically member-driven organization, stronger than the original?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on May 10, 2016, 04:43:41 pm
Elias, Gooch or any TMM admin. who is also in OK. Please feel free to strike my one previous comment  (and this one) from this thread. I only meant to show honor, not to sow discord of any sort. Please forgive the intrusion.

Peace, Love and Brotherhood

Tahn
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SamCarter on May 10, 2016, 05:24:16 pm
I can only imagine how positively gleeful lurkers here from the Southern Poverty Law Center must be to hear of the troubles at OK; probably pee-ing down their legs like some over excited puppies (no insult meant to puppies!).  While I have been banned from speaking there, who will join in a suggestion for OK to re-group with the power of a mission/purpose and constitution (like the one we have taken an Oath to defend) to renew OK like a Phoenix from the ashes to create a new, powerful, democratically member-driven organization, stronger than the original?

Hi ArcLighter and welcome from another newbie. While I'm sure your intentions were good, and not wishing to sound overly critical, I'd like to point out that part of your comment sounds like you are advocating a mutiny and the co-opting of the Oathkeeper brand.  Oathkeepers is privately owned and it is not a democracy. Stewart Rhodes is it's founder and president.  Regardless of what he may or may not have done, I am confident that he had justifiable reasons, as he is an honorable man.  Stewart and the organization are alive and well. There are no ashes from which a phoenix can arise.  As far as we know, the web site is encountering technical issues and nothing more.  Regards, Sam
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 05:24:53 pm
Elias, Gooch or any TMM admin. who is also in OK. Please feel free to strike my one previous comment  (and this one) from this thread. I only meant to show honor, not to sow discord of any sort. Please forgive the intrusion.

Peace, Love and Brotherhood

Tahn

Tahn

It's your call.
I don't see any reason to strike anything. You have been here long enough to know that we don't do that any way.

IF YOU feel like modifying your posts that is also your privilege.

stay safe
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 05:31:10 pm
Democracy is mob rule writ large.

No thanks.

Please read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
Then come back and tell us how many times the word democracy is in either one of those documents.

There is a very strong reason the founders did not name this country "The Democratic United States" (or The United Democratic States") versus what they did name it "these united States of America". See the natural emphasis in their choice of capitalizations?





hint: zero is the correct answer
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Moonbeam on May 10, 2016, 05:55:36 pm
Elias, sometimes I get caught up in my issues and forget what another might be struggling with. Thank you for the gentle reminder to consider another's perspective. As for BeenThere, my intention was to encourage a newbie and I personally wanted to see what else he was capable of. Your seeming to know who he is and not approving is good enough for me! On a side note, I also know Jim and his family (from the TN OK). It sounds like there are going to be changes here at TMM as you once again take the helm. I don't know much about you as you have been MIA (understandably so) for most of my 7 years here on the boards. However, I am willing to navigate new territory with you, your ideas and your hope. Best wishes!
Blessings, Moon
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 10, 2016, 06:10:59 pm
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 10, 2016, 06:16:52 pm
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.

You do realize that the exit door works 24/7?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SamCarter on May 10, 2016, 06:26:22 pm
 :dnftt:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: A Patriot on May 10, 2016, 08:20:38 pm
Just a reminder... This is a publicly open forum that can be read by anybody. Perception is reality, anything said is going straight to the enemies of Liberty. Patriots have a mission to spread the fruits of freedom, NOT our dirty laundry. We can not persuade people to our side if we are doing this, it doesn't matter who you are talking about, it is working against our purpose.
The Mission is first! If we didn't have this forum on the Internet we would be using Xerox machines and cassettes tapes again to spread the word, and I don't think what ever is going on, you would be printing up all about that, to spread Liberty?

I feel responsible for inviting my fellow Oath Keepers here that you would do this to Elias and our fellow Patriots, how dare you!
This is our only chance we have to save our Republic, other wise our posterity may have to wait a thousand years for Freedom to come around again.
Please pull the rope along with us in the same direction...
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 08:54:03 pm
Elias, Gooch or any TMM admin. who is also in OK. Please feel free to strike my one previous comment  (and this one) from this thread. I only meant to show honor, not to sow discord of any sort. Please forgive the intrusion.

Peace, Love and Brotherhood

Tahn

Tahn, my Brother, you've been with me for many years and you've never made a problem. I"m sure that anything you have to say here will impart a value for our readers. You just carry on with your peace, love, and brotherhood just the way you see it. And btw, thank you for your continued gifts to this place.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WWalker on May 10, 2016, 09:06:14 pm


Looking at other court documents, it is apparent he has a family.  Does an honorable man allow his means of supporting them be taken away without a fight?  How does he uphold his duty, his obligations, to them now?



They are openly claiming 30,000 to 33,000 members.  I do not remember what the fee is...but call it $25 a year...do the math.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WWalker on May 10, 2016, 09:12:40 pm
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.

It is sad.  It is disgusting.  Knowing some of the folks involved personaly, it is downright heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 09:40:42 pm
I can only imagine how positively gleeful lurkers here from the Southern Poverty Law Center must be to hear of the troubles at OK; probably pee-ing down their legs like some over excited puppies (no insult meant to puppies!).  While I have been banned from speaking there, who will join in a suggestion for OK to re-group with the power of a mission/purpose and constitution (like the one we have taken an Oath to defend) to renew OK like a Phoenix from the ashes to create a new, powerful, democratically member-driven organization, stronger than the original?

Uhm, two things in response, ArcLighter --

1. There are some who do not pause to realize what you are talking about, that this place is a public forum, and there are some others who don't think about what that exposes an organization to.
2. There are some who damn well know it and are here to damage it or destroy it because it *is* a public forum.

I have had personal email exchanges with Mr. Levin, who is General Counsel for the SPLC. I was named in a hit piece by the ADL right out of the gates in 2009. I know how those kinds of hate groups operate, which is one reason I feel I must keep a grip on what goes on here.

I have a sense of purpose in taking TMM up to the national level. It's going to be fun, and fruitful as we count coup on the chieftains of corruption with our Psy-Ops. But to do that, I'm going to be looking for those who demonstrate self control, awareness of the situation, maturity in judgment, alertness of mind, character of will, and the ability to channel the raw energies of the human ego into the contexts and terms of love's thought system. That itself is one of the most deadly blows we can render to the belly of the beast. I expect people to be here because they embrace TMM's role in the MindWar and want to help TMM fight it. I am not going to exercise time-wasting patience on hopeless mentaities, especially the sorts which manifest obsessive-compulsive pattern, un-checked egoism, emotional immaturity, etc. Our members will be *members*, or they will be gone. We will rise, my Friend. Thank you for being here.

Here is my thought in regard to your query about rebuilding Oath Keepers as a members-led org. I have talked with some State leaders who decided to do that for their States, but I have a cleaner way, a newer way. I cannot under any circumstances see myself capitalizing on Stewart's idea. It's his, and the name is his. I will support that fact, and honor it. And in truth, as I've noted on this thread already, I am my own Self, with my own ideas, and as I've watched the nation drift ever closer to the edge of the "Flat Earth" in the past sixteen years of TMM's existence, I'm inspired to realize that ours is, as G. Edward Griffin proclaims, "An idea whose time has come." This danged nation is primed and ready for our message of affirming the Militia System. As the political environment of America has morphed during those sixteen years, the perceptions of middle-America have also experienced many disappointments, so much so that they now realize that there is no political solution, that the political system itself is the trap, that the campaigns at national level are dog and pony shows choreographed by the globalizing socialist elites who own both major parties, the media, the money supply, the military-industrial complex, and now, through Fusion Centers, even our hometown cops and Sheriffs -- all the while wanting our guns and our every communication.

So I am organizing a major Psy-Op by taking TMM to the national level. When our site is ready, I will send an invitation to the SPLC (although I fully understand that they are already here), as a formality and a declaration to them that the MindWar is on, is fully charged, and is arraying the highest voice of We The People against the SPLC's  influence on agencies and departments within our government and within the media. Their target is the mind of mankind. So is ours.

Members in TMM will demonstrate that quality in their awareness, their alertness, and their activities when operating on these forum boards. Or I'll reassign them to some other outfit. ;)

Stewart is running Oath Keepers, however that works for him, and I am proud of the fact that I've helped him and that I have not attacked him over disagreements in style of operating. I cannot see myself working from his own organization's name in any way. TMM is separte, was here for many years before Oath Keepers came along, and has lately morphed into a format I can work with. I am the sort of guy who prefers to develop my own ideas. I'm just going forward with something I naively started in 1999 and am surprised to see is still here. I am delighted to see that it's time has come and I'm ready to put it together. Mentalitians are going to wage MindWar using their electronics inside their own homes and offices, and we're going to have a lot of fun doing our psy-ops. I say we focus our energies under The Mental Militia's umbrella, in its own right. ;)

Thank you for being here.
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 09:51:26 pm
Elias, sometimes I get caught up in my issues and forget what another might be struggling with. Thank you for the gentle reminder to consider another's perspective. As for BeenThere, my intention was to encourage a newbie and I personally wanted to see what else he was capable of. Your seeming to know who he is and not approving is good enough for me! On a side note, I also know Jim and his family (from the TN OK). It sounds like there are going to be changes here at TMM as you once again take the helm. I don't know much about you as you have been MIA (understandably so) for most of my 7 years here on the boards. However, I am willing to navigate new territory with you, your ideas and your hope. Best wishes!
Blessings, Moon

Well thank you Moon, and Blessings to you too. ;)
My apologies for being away for so long. Thank you for hanging in all that time. But get ready for some fun. We know what we're doing and we're going to empower a lot of people in the name of freedom and self-ownership.
I think it is great that you know Jim. I did not meet his wife, but he and I have a great dinner in SW Tennessee and I came away really respecting and appreciating him.  Please send him my regards if you would. Thanks.

About how you were attempting to make BeenThere feel welcome, I sensed that you were trying to help a newbie and I had no problem with your gestures in his direction. I am proud of you for that, and also am proud of you for remembering to question everything. Like, as in, everything. So I thank you for being yourself, and hope you'll just keep right on being yourself. That will help TMM.

You'll do. ;)

Salute!
Elias

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SaeculumSentry on May 10, 2016, 10:09:23 pm
Elias, sometimes I get caught up in my issues and forget what another might be struggling with. Thank you for the gentle reminder to consider another's perspective. As for BeenThere, my intention was to encourage a newbie and I personally wanted to see what else he was capable of. Your seeming to know who he is and not approving is good enough for me! On a side note, I also know Jim and his family (from the TN OK). It sounds like there are going to be changes here at TMM as you once again take the helm. I don't know much about you as you have been MIA (understandably so) for most of my 7 years here on the boards. However, I am willing to navigate new territory with you, your ideas and your hope. Best wishes!
Blessings, Moon

Well thank you Moon, and Blessings to you too. ;)
My apologies for being away for so long. Thank you for hanging in all that time. But get ready for some fun. We know what we're doing and we're going to empower a lot of people in the name of freedom and self-ownership.
I think it is great that you know Jim. I did not meet his wife, but he and I have a great dinner in SW Tennessee and I came away really respecting and appreciating him.  Please send him my regards if you would. Thanks.

About how you were attempting to make BeenThere feel welcome, I sensed that you were trying to help a newbie and I had no problem with your gestures in his direction. I am proud of you for that, and also am proud of you for remembering to question everything. Like, as in, everything. So I thank you for being yourself, and hope you'll just keep right on being yourself. That will help TMM.

You'll do. ;)

Salute!
Elias

Been there or Been here, one could only imagine where we really are..... :laugh:

I have some information about what may have happened to oathkeepers.net/forum.

I used to be known as OKTXTech on the OK forum site. If anyone is interested I could expound on what I have found. I certainly don't wish to ruffle any feathers but, I deal in reality. All bullshit stops with me.

Anyone interested?

SS

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 10:19:18 pm
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.

Meditations On Opsec's Comment
[/size]

Office supplies. Postage. Electricity. Office space. Phone connection. Internet connection. Transportation. Electronics. Shipping/mailing expenses. Software. Contractors such as Adam and Greg and Jason and Jim. I.T. guy. Webmaster. Subscriptions. Graphics. Printing. Coffee to keep me up and at it...

Maybe I should ask Opsec how one does all that without money, yes?
Naw. He'd just say it is a different matter in his world. He would say it's understandable that the people who provide him his Internet connection expect to be paid money, but of course it's absurd for The Mental Militia to have to pay for such, right? Obviously he feels that God will just rain down the manna I need to survive and create something worthwhile in the struggle for liberty.

Maybe he already knows all that, and was just trying to insult the man who created this forum so he could come in here and toss around his insults, and is offended at the very idea that I might solicit support to keep this place going and growing. Maybe that's it.
Not sure. But his comment does smack of insult.
Maybe he's not Mental Militia material.
Maybe I'll let it go by and just see what he comes up with next.
Or maybe I won't.
Not sure. Guess time will tell.

[End meditations on Opsec's post]

Opsec, just a question please. Why are you here?
Thank you in advance for your answer.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 10:26:26 pm
Elias, sometimes I get caught up in my issues and forget what another might be struggling with. Thank you for the gentle reminder to consider another's perspective. As for BeenThere, my intention was to encourage a newbie and I personally wanted to see what else he was capable of. Your seeming to know who he is and not approving is good enough for me! On a side note, I also know Jim and his family (from the TN OK). It sounds like there are going to be changes here at TMM as you once again take the helm. I don't know much about you as you have been MIA (understandably so) for most of my 7 years here on the boards. However, I am willing to navigate new territory with you, your ideas and your hope. Best wishes!
Blessings, Moon

Well thank you Moon, and Blessings to you too. ;)
My apologies for being away for so long. Thank you for hanging in all that time. But get ready for some fun. We know what we're doing and we're going to empower a lot of people in the name of freedom and self-ownership.
I think it is great that you know Jim. I did not meet his wife, but he and I have a great dinner in SW Tennessee and I came away really respecting and appreciating him.  Please send him my regards if you would. Thanks.

About how you were attempting to make BeenThere feel welcome, I sensed that you were trying to help a newbie and I had no problem with your gestures in his direction. I am proud of you for that, and also am proud of you for remembering to question everything. Like, as in, everything. So I thank you for being yourself, and hope you'll just keep right on being yourself. That will help TMM.

You'll do. ;)

Salute!
Elias

Been there or Been here, one could only imagine where we really are..... :laugh:

I have some information about what may have happened to oathkeepers.net/forum.

I used to be known as OKTXTech on the OK forum site. If anyone is interested I could expound on what I have found. I certainly don't wish to ruffle any feathers but, I deal in reality. All bullshit stops with me.

Anyone interested?

SS

Thanks for the offer, SS. And welcome aboard TMM's forums.
I am not really interested. It's an Oath Keepers problem, not a TMM problem. But perhaps Stewart and his I.T. guy would like to speak with you. Go to the Oath Keepers national website and use the "Contact" link. Address your offer to Stewart Rhodes and/or Larry D.
But thanks anyway.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 10:41:09 pm
Just a reminder... This is a publicly open forum that can be read by anybody. Perception is reality, anything said is going straight to the enemies of Liberty. Patriots have a mission to spread the fruits of freedom, NOT our dirty laundry. We can not persuade people to our side if we are doing this, it doesn't matter who you are talking about, it is working against our purpose.
The Mission is first! If we didn't have this forum on the Internet we would be using Xerox machines and cassettes tapes again to spread the word, and I don't think what ever is going on, you would be printing up all about that, to spread Liberty?

I feel responsible for inviting my fellow Oath Keepers here that you would do this to Elias and our fellow Patriots, how dare you!
This is our only chance we have to save our Republic, other wise our posterity may have to wait a thousand years for Freedom to come around again.
Please pull the rope along with us in the same direction...

A Patriot,
Not another word of that, Brother. You did just fine, and I appreciate your inviting new members in here. Listen, Amigo, I've been in the trenches for sixteen years now, and nothing new has arisen that has not already been studied repeatedly over the years. The reason I asked the Admins here to willingly grant me leadership powers is so I can maintain some semblance of intelligence in the public discourse here. Any of our pals from Oath Keepers who wander in here are welcome. I do not expect all of them to be Mental Militia material, but so far only a couple or three have shown that they may be unacceptable for our sort of Militia, the Militia of the Mind. I'm trying to give some leeway for new folks to get a feel for the place. TMM is not here to tell people how to think. But we are here for people who have learned that fine and uncommon art. Those are our Mentalitians, and our group is growing, thanks to your good work. But we've only begun, so stick around and help spread the light of love's thought system.

Some here have shown motives which do not indicate that they came here to carry forward our work for self-ownership and the freedom which arises from that. I and my Admin staff and their Moderators will weed them out as needed. We are preparing for an influx of people in coming months as I develop the operations at the national site. A year from now there will be many more members from other organizations than there are from Oath Keepers.

I  am depending on you being here and helping me, Bro. And I thank you for your expressed sentiments, and for standing up for me. Well done, Sir!

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 10:49:28 pm
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.

It is sad.  It is disgusting.  Knowing some of the folks involved personaly, it is downright heartbreaking.

Hi WWalker;
Long time no talk. I trust you and the family are well.
Am not sure what is "heartbreaking" for you, so will ask you to express more fully what you find to be heartbreaking about asking for help to get TMM going to the next level? You of course know that I respect your thinking on things, so I am just asking you in curiosity. I don't personally see anything I'm doing as "heartbreaking", so must ask if you were directing that at me (as well as whoever else) or not, and if so, I'd appreciate your take on it. Thanks!

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SaeculumSentry on May 10, 2016, 10:51:01 pm
Elias, sometimes I get caught up in my issues and forget what another might be struggling with. Thank you for the gentle reminder to consider another's perspective. As for BeenThere, my intention was to encourage a newbie and I personally wanted to see what else he was capable of. Your seeming to know who he is and not approving is good enough for me! On a side note, I also know Jim and his family (from the TN OK). It sounds like there are going to be changes here at TMM as you once again take the helm. I don't know much about you as you have been MIA (understandably so) for most of my 7 years here on the boards. However, I am willing to navigate new territory with you, your ideas and your hope. Best wishes!
Blessings, Moon

Well thank you Moon, and Blessings to you too. ;)
My apologies for being away for so long. Thank you for hanging in all that time. But get ready for some fun. We know what we're doing and we're going to empower a lot of people in the name of freedom and self-ownership.
I think it is great that you know Jim. I did not meet his wife, but he and I have a great dinner in SW Tennessee and I came away really respecting and appreciating him.  Please send him my regards if you would. Thanks.

About how you were attempting to make BeenThere feel welcome, I sensed that you were trying to help a newbie and I had no problem with your gestures in his direction. I am proud of you for that, and also am proud of you for remembering to question everything. Like, as in, everything. So I thank you for being yourself, and hope you'll just keep right on being yourself. That will help TMM.

You'll do. ;)

Salute!
Elias

Been there or Been here, one could only imagine where we really are..... :laugh:

I have some information about what may have happened to oathkeepers.net/forum.

I used to be known as OKTXTech on the OK forum site. If anyone is interested I could expound on what I have found. I certainly don't wish to ruffle any feathers but, I deal in reality. All bullshit stops with me.

Anyone interested?

SS

Thanks for the offer, SS. And welcome aboard TMM's forums.
I am not really interested. It's an Oath Keepers problem, not a TMM problem. But perhaps Stewart and his I.T. guy would like to speak with you. Go to the Oath Keepers national website and use the "Contact" link. Address your offer to Stewart Rhodes and/or Larry D.
But thanks anyway.

Salute!
Elias

I understand your wish for things not to be dredged up further regarding the OK forum site. What is the point really? I am behind the idea for Oath Keepers no matter the outcome of its successes or short comings.

Elias, I would bet good money you have been inundated with an element of silly shit since oathkeepers.net/forums went dark.  Given the curiosity while back reading this thread I simply wish to dispel any rumors. I have had a good relationship with the forum members at OK and wish to continue a good rapport with those that may have landed here seeking refuge or just plain decent, liberty-minded fellowship.

If I can be of any help to you or the members at TMM, please do not hesitate to ask.... :mellow:

SS

 

 
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 10, 2016, 11:28:49 pm
Thanks SS. Enjoy your stay here. There are some people here from Oath Keepers, but not very many. I appreciate all who took time to sign in and speak up, except of course for the couple who are not here for "seeking refuge or just plain decent, liberty-minded fellowship". One is on TDY with permanent orders afar, and one may be reassigned likewise, but over all they are good people and will fit in nicely here as TMM moves forward. If you have not looked around our new site, please do so.

https://thementalmilitia.net/

Again, welcome aboard.
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: SaeculumSentry on May 11, 2016, 12:04:33 am
Oh, I see..... :doh:

Just trying to feel the waters before I take the tomato plants inside..... :wave:

SS
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WWalker on May 11, 2016, 10:01:30 am
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.

It is sad.  It is disgusting.  Knowing some of the folks involved personaly, it is downright heartbreaking.

Hi WWalker;
Long time no talk. I trust you and the family are well.
Am not sure what is "heartbreaking" for you, so will ask you to express more fully what you find to be heartbreaking about asking for help to get TMM going to the next level? You of course know that I respect your thinking on things, so I am just asking you in curiosity. I don't personally see anything I'm doing as "heartbreaking", so must ask if you were directing that at me (as well as whoever else) or not, and if so, I'd appreciate your take on it. Thanks!

Salute!
Elias

Elias,
Nice to see you active back a "home".

It is true that my short comment was not that clear. Time restraints and a mobile device...excuses excuses.

I do know it is difficult to make any money in your line of work.  I see it everywhere in the "liberty movement".  It brings to mind the L Ron Hubbard quote about not getting rich writing science fiction.  You don't get rich fitting for freedom either.

I was not only referring to your desire for donations for TMM.
 
I was also contemplating one of the major pitfalls of the "Oathkeeper vision".  And one specific comment you made further up the thread regarding your relation ship with Stewart and the Oathkeeper organization.
 
That being the NEED for folks to work for and fully support organization,s governmental or private, for a paycheck.

I could elaborate further...but once again...time constraints...I need to get to work.

And
Yes, we are well.  I hope the same for you.
 

 



   
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 11, 2016, 08:45:11 pm
Now let me ask each of you please -- have you, each of you personally, gone to the national site and sent in your $25.00 annual dues to help me establish my own future income by helping me promote TMM?

Oh, man. Now I understand what this is all about. Cash flow. The bottom line is, the bottom line.  Now I gotta decide whether I should feel pity, or disgust, or what.  Thanks.

It is sad.  It is disgusting.  Knowing some of the folks involved personaly, it is downright heartbreaking.

Hi WWalker;
Long time no talk. I trust you and the family are well.
Am not sure what is "heartbreaking" for you, so will ask you to express more fully what you find to be heartbreaking about asking for help to get TMM going to the next level? You of course know that I respect your thinking on things, so I am just asking you in curiosity. I don't personally see anything I'm doing as "heartbreaking", so must ask if you were directing that at me (as well as whoever else) or not, and if so, I'd appreciate your take on it. Thanks!

Salute!
Elias

Elias,
Nice to see you active back a "home".

It is true that my short comment was not that clear. Time restraints and a mobile device...excuses excuses.

I do know it is difficult to make any money in your line of work.  I see it everywhere in the "liberty movement".  It brings to mind the L Ron Hubbard quote about not getting rich writing science fiction.  You don't get rich fitting for freedom either.

I was not only referring to your desire for donations for TMM.
 
I was also contemplating one of the major pitfalls of the "Oathkeeper vision".  And one specific comment you made further up the thread regarding your relation ship with Stewart and the Oathkeeper organization.
 
That being the NEED for folks to work for and fully support organization,s governmental or private, for a paycheck.

I could elaborate further...but once again...time constraints...I need to get to work.

And
Yes, we are well.  I hope the same for you.
 
   

Hey Bro, thanks for clarifying that for me. Glad to know that all goes well for you there.
It's true that one does not get rich by fighting for freedom -- I can attest to that, lol. But I ain't interested in getting rich, I'm just interested in getting my work done. A little money goes a long way in making good things happen. I'll give you an example.
Last month The Mental Militia sponsored three public events in western Montana for Richard Gage and Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Jim White of Northwest Liberty News (TMM) sponsored the event for Richard in Kalispell, and "J" sponsored the event in Missoula, while I sponsored the event in Hamilton. Hamilton cost me four hundred dollars in advance, for which I wrote the check on my monthly draw from Oath Keepers. NW Liberty News chipped in on that later, and I also accepted donations from supporters there in Hamilton, which "J" collected for me. In addition to the venue cost, there was gasoline and food expense. But thanks to people pitching in, I was able to drive down there for the event. It was a great venue and we had a good turn-out, so I'm very pleased that I can report that all three TMM-sponsored events came off smoothly and Richard Gage is grateful to TMM for putting that together for his organization.

So, as Opsec so snidely observed, money is the bottom line. Without support from TMM's friends I could not have done that for Richard. https://thementalmilitia.net/welcome/ae911truth/

The truth is that I don't want to get rich, I just want to get the work done. Recall --  some time back you and I went to Bozeman to meet Larken Rose. A few other patriots joined us there at the Holiday Inn's nice reception area where we sat in comfortable chairs and sofas and enjoyed a personal visit with Larken. If I'm not mistaken, you were the one who sent me the notice that Larken would be coming there, so I thank you again for letting me know. While there, I was able to buy Larken's books. Had him autograph them for me, as you prolly did also. Point is this -- Larken is working his butt off trying to help this nation wake up, and to do so he publishes books and makes tours in which he hopes to take in money. I was glad to chip in for him and I'm sure you were too, as were the others there who also bought his books. That, for Opsec's information, is how things work. I am not at all embarrassed to offer people a chance to help fund the development of The Mental Militia as I take it up a few notches to the national level. I am convinced that this is a good and beneficial idea which will help some people in various ways, and it is good for the country to have TMM "out there" on the Net in a powerful way.

I would, in closing, note that of everything I had written in the post from which Opsec quoted that one sentence, he only picked the sentence where I was asking about how many here had joined as dues paying members. He had no comment about anything else I had written, just wanted to take a cheap shot at me for daring to suggest that I could use some help in creating a powerful movement through The Mental Militia's new site and these forums. That shows me something about the guy's character. I see that he has lost interest in answering my question to him about "why" he is here at TMM's forums. What he also has failed to do is say thank you to me for providing this forum which he could join for "no charge". This forum is free to all, no dues required. He failed to notice that, I guess.


But enough of that. I have been "in the trenches" for a long time now and have seen all sorts of personalities. I am not about to abandon my work over his sort of criticism. I am on to something very good, and I will go forward without his help, and he can continue to use this forum for free.  And that, for Opsec's info, is "the bottom line".
Meanwhile, next time I'm around your neck of the woods I'll see if we can hook up for a cup of coffee and a catch-up visit.  I still remember you strolling up to the campfire at the Headwaters north of Three Forks to meet the TMM Admins -- Bill St. Clair was there from New York, and so were Zoot (Minnesota) and Ragnar (Ohio) and Basil (Montana) and Ilo (Montana) etc., and your presence was greatly appreciated.  And time keeps slipping by, yes? I am glad you came to that historic spot to meet us, and I appreciate your being here all these years, and appreciate the friendship. Thanks Bro.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 11, 2016, 10:11:34 pm
I see that he has lost interest in answering my question to him about "why" he is here at TMM's forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BJ_vfGrbs

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 11, 2016, 11:01:55 pm
I see that he has lost interest in answering my question to him about "why" he is here at TMM's forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BJ_vfGrbs

Good answer. Thank you.  ;)

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 11, 2016, 11:20:44 pm
I see that he has lost interest in answering my question to him about "why" he is here at TMM's forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BJ_vfGrbs

Good answer. Thank you.  ;)

Salute!
Elias

Sorry to be a drag Elias but ML and I do not and cannot (respectively) do videos youtube or otherwise so a short two sentence synopsis would be a kindness.

stay safe
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 11, 2016, 11:23:55 pm
It's just a very quick, three-second quip by Jack Benny, saying "I'm thinking it over." Opsec found a good use for it.

Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: da gooch on May 11, 2016, 11:29:40 pm
It's just a very quick, three-second quip by Jack Benny, saying "I'm thinking it over." Opsec found a good use for it.

Salute!
Elias

Thanks Elias.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 12, 2016, 03:41:14 am
*
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 12, 2016, 10:21:00 am
The Oathkeepers "Forums" link now works, but the forums don't yet know their own new URL, so links from there don't work, though if you already have an account, that might work. I don't, so I couldn't try it.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on May 12, 2016, 10:44:58 am
Elias, I want to apologize for what I said.  After re-reading and seeing what you said about monthly draw, its clearer to me now.  I can see the whole thing a bit better I think.  I know if I were involved in a conversation that had bad talk about my boss it would not be good.  It don't matter what I think of him, because right now I need him more than he needs me. I still think the whole thing with Been There could of been handled better though.  Maybe we can agree to disagree on that.  Maybe Been There, if hes still around, sees things better too now.  I would like to know if he does so maybe you can remove his posting ban and see what happens.  You can still ban him from posting if it turns out to be a mistake.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 12, 2016, 10:46:38 am
The Oathkeepers "Forums" link now works, but the forums don't yet know their own new URL, so links from there don't work, though if you already have an account, that might work. I don't, so I couldn't try it.

Just got this from the Oath Keepers' I.T. guy --

____________________________________________________

The forum is back on line!

It does have a different URL though. You can access it by going to:
http://forum.oathkeepers.org and using your regular user name and password.

It is possible that for some of you it will take a little time before it's available because your DNS caching has to catch up, but otherwise it's good to go.

I think Stewart will be making a statement on the whole story soon.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 12, 2016, 11:30:15 am
Elias, I want to apologize for what I said.  After re-reading and seeing what you said about monthly draw, its clearer to me now.  I can see the whole thing a bit better I think.  I know if I were involved in a conversation that had bad talk about my boss it would not be good.  It don't matter what I think of him, because right now I need him more than he needs me. I still think the whole thing with Been There could of been handled better though.  Maybe we can agree to disagree on that.  Maybe Been There, if hes still around, sees things better too now.  I would like to know if he does so maybe you can remove his posting ban and see what happens.  You can still ban him from posting if it turns out to be a mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BJ_vfGrbs

;)

I will get back to this soon.
Thanks,
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 12, 2016, 11:35:56 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BJ_vfGrbs

;)

For those without enough bandwidth for video, there's that Jack Benny "I'm thinking it over" clip again.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: WWalker on May 12, 2016, 02:09:21 pm
Elias,

I know your not interested in getting rich in the "freedom fighting" business.  But unfortunately there are some who are and folks are getting burned.  Whether or not that's why you got the response you did :dontknow:...just pointing out the sad truth.
This is the heartbreak for me.  I see the likes of you, Larken, Will Grigg, and others...doing good things and struggling to make ends meet.  Then I see some who are arguably doing more harm than good, with what are basically nothing more than offshoots of the religion of Statism, and they are raking in stacks of cash.
As you commented earlier, this is the place for attacking ideas, there are some here worth attacking, but I shall not go there as I'm afraid it would just be more  :deadhorse: and I would like to remain a member here at your fine establishment. :thumbsup:

To look on the bright side...I believe you enjoy your work, so I am happy for you in that respect.

I'll be keeping an eye on what you've got brewing at TMM...like I said, it's good to see you active here again.

I would be glad for the opportunity to sit down for a face to face with you if you are ever down this way or if I get up that way.  Our last meeting in the Three Forks Market parking lot was a brief one, but was good to see you.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 12, 2016, 05:38:31 pm
Stewart wrote an article about the outage and recovery. No hint in it of who he thinks did it.

https://www.oathkeepers.org/back-in-the-saddle-again-attack-on-oath-keepers-site-defeated/
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on May 12, 2016, 10:52:46 pm
the forum page was operational this morning
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Elias Alias on May 12, 2016, 11:07:44 pm
the forum page was operational this morning

Yes.
Logins are same for members as each member had before. But the url is different:

http://forum.oathkeepers.org

Thank you,
Salute!
Elias
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on May 13, 2016, 11:45:44 am
The registration link on the new forums page still points at the old location, but this works:

https://forum.oathkeepers.org/register.php
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Opsec on June 13, 2016, 02:18:38 pm

I will get back to this soon.
Thanks,
Salute!
Elias

Good thing I haven't been holding my breath. ;)
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Eagle Eye on July 05, 2016, 06:09:58 pm
Well, it looks like Oath Keepers has been knocked off line again. I've not been able to access the site since last night.  Anyone have some insight on this? 

Ken
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Cherokee on July 05, 2016, 08:04:27 pm
I've been having trouble for a few days. I thought maybe they went down for maintenance over the holiday, but it's been too much for too long.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 05, 2016, 11:37:09 pm
the home page came up Sunday, I think, but forums down all weekend
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 06, 2016, 10:27:17 am
I'm seeing flaky connectivity.

From the TMM web server, I have no problem getting to oathkeepers.org. Can ping, and read web pages. traceroute completes quickly.

From my home computer, I sometimes get web pages to load, but often ping fails, and traceroute lasts longer than I'm willing to wait.

Hard to say if this is just a temporary network outage or an intentional block, but North American internet is only at 67% rightnow, with a lot of major routers out. http://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm

Bottom line: it looks like the oathkeepers.org web server is working, but the network connectivity to get to it is having problems.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Cherokee on July 06, 2016, 01:34:23 pm
Censorship maybe?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 06, 2016, 01:41:12 pm
Censorship maybe?

Certainly possible, but I doubt it. In my experience, most such outages are simple technical problems.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: ArcLighter on July 06, 2016, 09:26:30 pm
Artie Muller has run Rolling Thunder into the ground: http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92055357&pty=CAN;  Stewart Rhodes, despite his original good intentions, and highly respected mission, has deviated from said mission to where he has run Oath Keepers into the ground - shame on him!
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 06, 2016, 11:29:00 pm
ArcLighter, have we met before?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 06, 2016, 11:45:10 pm
Remember folks:  when you "run your organization into the ground," your website will go with it.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 07, 2016, 08:49:30 am
I am still able to access the OathKeepers.org web site from both my NearlyFreeSpeech.net machine in Arizona and TMM's DigitalOcean.com machine in New York City. I still cannot connect directly via my Comcast ISP in southern Vermont. Some router is misconfigured, or intentionally blocking the path to the OathKeepers.org server.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: heyoka on July 07, 2016, 09:38:53 am
Remember folks:  when you "run your organization into the ground," your website will go with it.
maybe it needs a cyber obiit and redirect
http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?p=2253 (http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?p=2253)
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Thucidydes on July 07, 2016, 03:42:20 pm
Remember folks:  when you "run your organization into the ground," your website will go with it.

.

Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 07, 2016, 09:27:52 pm
Welcome back Mr. Lawyer / LEO who hates Stewart.  Have fun while it lasts.  You might try actually contributing something positive to the community this time if you want to stay around.  I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 07, 2016, 11:18:14 pm
Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Klapton,
I don't think that Thucidydes understands the difference of what Stewart took an oath to, which is more monumental than that of an attorney's oath if any.  The Oath that Stewart stands behind is that of protecting the Constitution.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 08, 2016, 03:23:50 am
Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Klapton,
I don't think that Thucidydes understands the difference of what Stewart took an oath to, which is more monumental than that of an attorney's oath if any.  The Oath that Stewart stands behind is that of protecting the Constitution.

He's this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: ArcLighter on July 08, 2016, 08:16:03 am
Re: oathkeepers.net

This domain was recently registered at Namecheap. Please check back later!


https://www.oathkeepers.net/forum/ --> Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.oathkeepers.net.

While neither Sun Tzu nor Clausewitz made a big deal of cutting enemies' communications, what lines of our present day communications will remain in the instance of martial law?  Which land lines, cell comm, or Internet will remain, even for those who are not advising revolution?

Some Internet might be available, even in a comm blackout:  How about Amazon?
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2014/07/how-cia-partnered-amazon-and-changed-intelligence/88555/
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Thucidydes on July 08, 2016, 08:45:28 am
Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Klapton,
I don't think that Thucidydes understands the difference of what Stewart took an oath to, which is more monumental than that of an attorney's oath if any.  The Oath that Stewart stands behind is that of protecting the Constitution.

He's this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ


So, you're trying to say I'm Malcolm X, and you're Rhode's House Negro.  Sounds about right.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: heyoka on July 08, 2016, 09:02:59 am
So, you're trying to say I'm Malcolm X, and you're Rhode's House Negro.  Sounds about right.
:sign10:
welcome to the forum
I hope you can stick around.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 08, 2016, 09:25:19 am
So, you're trying to say I'm Malcolm X, and you're Rhode's House Negro.  Sounds about right.

Name calling, back and forth insults are not well tolerated here. If you have something to say about the topic, you are welcome to post. Just keep it impersonal, thanks.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 08, 2016, 11:05:27 am
Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Klapton,
I don't think that Thucidydes understands the difference of what Stewart took an oath to, which is more monumental than that of an attorney's oath if any.  The Oath that Stewart stands behind is that of protecting the Constitution.

He's this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ


So, you're trying to say I'm Malcolm X, and you're Rhode's House Negro.  Sounds about right.

Yeah...  Because I work for him...

I'll spell it out for you.

You are either a lawyer or an LEO.  You serve your master, the state.  But you don't just serve your master, you love your master.  Rhodes defied your masters and walked away.  You are now embittered and furious that one of your fellow slaves left the plantation.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: FDD on July 08, 2016, 11:10:53 am
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 08, 2016, 11:17:50 am
Hey Dog,
Ya got some corn to share?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 08, 2016, 11:40:36 am
You are either a lawyer or an LEO.  You serve your master, the state.  But you don't just serve your master, you love your master.  Rhodes defied your masters and walked away.  You are now embittered and furious that one of your fellow slaves left the plantation.

Klapton... did you read the new rules for TMM?  This is a personal attack. Regardless of whether or not you think it is true, it is not going to be tolerated here by Elias. Further attacks will earn you a time out...  and I'm going to start deleting the posts pretty soon too. If anyone doesn't like it, they should ask Elias. Wasn't my idea, exactly. :(
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 08, 2016, 01:16:09 pm
Re: oathkeepers.net

Before the domain mixup of a while back, the Oath Keepers forums were at oathkeepers.net. They are now at https://www.oathkeepers.org/forums/

I'm having the same connectivity problems today that I had yesterday and the day before. OathKeepers.org works fine from TMM's web server in New York City and from my NearlyFreeSpeech.net machine in Arizona, but doesn't work via my Comcast connection in southern Vermont.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 08, 2016, 01:22:30 pm
You are either a lawyer or an LEO.  You serve your master, the state.  But you don't just serve your master, you love your master.  Rhodes defied your masters and walked away.  You are now embittered and furious that one of your fellow slaves left the plantation.

Klapton... did you read the new rules for TMM?  This is a personal attack. Regardless of whether or not you think it is true, it is not going to be tolerated here by Elias. Further attacks will earn you a time out...  and I'm going to start deleting the posts pretty soon too. If anyone doesn't like it, they should ask Elias. Wasn't my idea, exactly. :(

He did it last time I called out this boot-licker.  He can do it again if he wants.  He can keep doing it until he has no friends left to play if that's how he wants to run his playground.

Call it a personal attack, or just call it an explanation why the same guy keeps coming back with new user names after being booted, only to resume HIS personal attacks on Stewart.

So, have fun.  Do what you think is right.  Or not.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 08, 2016, 01:35:04 pm
So, have fun.  Do what you think is right.  Or not.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do... and it isn't easy. :( 

You have no obligation to defend Stewart, I think, with or without personal attacks. Could you perhaps mention the facts you dispute and, maybe, cite where better information can be found?  The argument is probably at least part of what brings this person back, but I'm not aware of a problem with him. If you find someone who is doing troll stuff, please use the report feature and let me know. I don't normally monitor this section much at all, and would appreciate the help.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 08, 2016, 01:57:26 pm
So, have fun.  Do what you think is right.  Or not.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do... and it isn't easy. :( 

You have no obligation to defend Stewart, I think, with or without personal attacks. Could you perhaps mention the facts you dispute and, maybe, cite where better information can be found?  The argument is probably at least part of what brings this person back, but I'm not aware of a problem with him. If you find someone who is doing troll stuff, please use the report feature and let me know. I don't normally monitor this section much at all, and would appreciate the help.

The facts in dispute are the manner and motive of Stewart walking away from practicing law.  He explained the whole thing on Oath Keepers' private forum, which our friend can access for the low, low price of just $40.

He didn't get fired, he quit.  That's the long and short of it.

Now this guy wants to get all frothy about abandoning clients and breaking his oath to be a good minion of the state's enforcement apparatus.

When repeatedly asked if he was a lawyer or LEO, he obfuscated every time.

Conclusion:  he's a good little minion of the state's enforcement apparatus who is hell-bent on besmirching a man who defied and left it because it's evil.  The metaphor of the house negro is perfect.

As for being obligated to defend Stewart...  I'm not obligated to do diddly, include play nice to make Elias happy.  Skip the part about it being his house.  Yeah, I'm also not obligated to hang out here either.

So, if Elias doesn't want me to hang out here anymore, that's OK.  I won't stop speaking truth or water it down for anyone.  This is me.  I'm not changing who I am because Elias wants his forum to more wussy-friendly.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: ArcLighter on July 08, 2016, 02:20:48 pm
Apparently Stewart Rhodes did not quit, he was disbarred:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab/2015/11/02/oath-keeper-founder-at-risk-of-being-disbarred/#7c6243c62dda

"Just the fact, Ma'am, just the facts."  Sgt. Joe Friday, Dragnet.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Thucidydes on July 08, 2016, 03:05:02 pm
In deference to the requests to maintain decorum, I will refrain from responding to personal attacks.  I don't know what he is ranting about, and don't care.

ArcLighter is correct.  Rhodes was disbarred.  Even if he said, in not so many words, "You can't fire me, I quit!" doesn't make it so.

Rhodes screwed up, big time.  When called to explain himself, he whined about being persecuted, and refused to answer. That's not quitting, that's negligence.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 08, 2016, 03:14:44 pm
In deference to the requests to maintain decorum, I will refrain from responding to personal attacks.  I don't know what he is ranting about, and don't care.

ArcLighter is correct.  Rhodes was disbarred.  Even if he said, in not so many words, "You can't fire me, I quit!" doesn't make it so.

Rhodes screwed up, big time.  When called to explain himself, he whined about being persecuted, and refused to answer. That's not quitting, that's negligence.
Guess who else quit before being disbarred? Both Barrack and Michelle Obama. Don't believe me? Look it up. :mellow:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 08, 2016, 03:20:55 pm
Yeah, I'm also not obligated to hang out here either.

Your choice. I do have an obligation to Elias, and the rest of TMM... and I have the authority to carry it out.  Attacking Elias was possibly not your best decision today. 7 day time out...
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 08, 2016, 04:34:26 pm
MamaLiberty and Elias,

 Now I know calling someone a “lawyer" is certainly derogatory  and an epithet and is about as vile a name as you can call someone, well except for “bootlicker”, UNLESS of course they are a lawyer (and by extension a bootlicker), which I don’t believe was ever denied.

I do believe in maintaining decorum here on TMM as you know but because the possible epithet’s were on the OK thread and because it was not proven that they were indeed untrue and whereas it was in defense of another TMM and OK member, is it possible to appeal such a decision or at least ask for a reduction in the sentence?
 
If so, I hereby and forthwith enter such an appeal. We are all sinners.
Tahn

P.S. I live in Missouri where the second worst epithet you can call someone is a scoundrel and (I hesitate to even say it) the WORST is a scalawag. I heard no such vile utterances and also heard no real cuss words. Allowing the two combatants to duel, on that thread, concerning their perceived matter of honor, might be the best, libertarian method to help them reach a satisfactory conclusion or at least, expend their ammo. Regardless, withdrawing only ONE of the combatants I perceive as unsatisfactory.

Of course, this decision is not mine, thank the heavens and I will truly respect any decision you’all make
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Barrett K on July 08, 2016, 05:14:35 pm
MamaLiberty and Elias,

 Now I know calling someone a “lawyer" is certainly derogatory  and an epithet and is about as vile a name as you can call someone, well except for “bootlicker”, UNLESS of course they are a lawyer (and by extension a bootlicker), which I don’t believe was ever denied.

I do believe in maintaining decorum here on TMM as you know but because the possible epithet’s were on the OK thread and because it was not proven that they were indeed untrue and whereas it was in defense of another TMM and OK member, is it possible to appeal such a decision or at least ask for a reduction in the sentence?
 
If so, I hereby and forthwith enter such an appeal. We are all sinners.
Tahn

P.S. I live in Missouri where the second worst epithet you can call someone is a scoundrel and (I hesitate to even say it) the WORST is a scalawag. I heard no such vile utterances and also heard no real cuss words. Allowing the two combatants to duel, on that thread, concerning their perceived matter of honor, might be the best, libertarian method to help them reach a satisfactory conclusion or at least, expend their ammo. Regardless, withdrawing only ONE of the combatants I perceive as unsatisfactory.

Of course, this decision is not mine, thank the heavens and I will truly respect any decision you’all make


Lawyer is not a derogatory term but Attorney is. An attorney is a member of the BAR and sole source of corruption in the judiciary.
The term lawyer is used to identify one educated in the law. Attorneys are only taught theory, case law and procedure they have no concept of legislative intent of any statute.

I stand with Tahn in klapton"s appeal.

I will give my opinion about Stewart quitting.

Stewart walked away prior to being disbarred. That means the disbarment was a result of his quitting not the other way around.

I'm proud of Stewart for quitting the BAR. I'm sure he had more than a few pressing personal issues that required his attention.
I'm sorry it left clients without council, that could have been handled better.

I also agree with Klapton. I someone has a beef with Stewart take it to him and not the members of TMM.

'nough said.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 08, 2016, 05:25:27 pm
Barrett K,

 I stand corrected in my misunderstanding of the terms and thank you for pointing out the error.

I also thank you for joining me in the appeal.

Let truth and justice prevail.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Thucidydes on July 08, 2016, 06:24:36 pm

Stewart walked away prior to being disbarred. That means the disbarment was a result of his quitting not the other way around.


You need to tell the people you're quitting from that you quit. You can't just ignore them. If I don't show up for work, don't tell my boss why, and ignore repeated requests for explanation, he will fire me. My intention is irrelevant, for it was never disclosed.

Those who wish to know the facts of the matter should read the following documents:

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/view/PR%2014-0698%20Formal%20Complaint%20and%20Citation%20to%20Appear%20--%20Complaint?id={B244F803-CB7C-4384-906A-A2F3F1A4186C}

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/view/PR%2014-0698%20Other%20--%20Complaint?id={CBFDFEA3-EF90-4B78-9E58-FEA6EECD00EB}

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/view/PR%2014-0698%20Findings%20of%20Fact,%20Conclusions%20of%20Law%20and%20Recommendations%20--%20Rulings%20-%20Commissions?id={60D6A950-0000-CB14-922B-1C7AA82D74DE}

https://supremecourtdocket.mt.gov/view/PR%2014-0698%20Final%20Disposition:%20Discipline-Attorney%20--%20Order?id={B0E88351-0000-C914-A38B-6DED42602C10}


I'm sorry it left clients without council, that could have been handled better.


Damn right it could have been handled better.  So you're sorry for his clients, that's really nice of you. Did Rhodes ever tell them he's sorry?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Barrett K on July 08, 2016, 07:30:13 pm
Thucidydes, I don't know all the facts, you'll have to get those from Stewart himself you wont get them on this forum.

I can only make assumptions to the documents you posted. As to the proof of service, did they have Stewart's signature or the signature of some one else?

As to Attorneys, they are all criminals the way I see it. Their allegiance is to the State first and then their client, they have no interest in justice only just-us (the State). This is why they won't defend their clients GOD given rights in the Administrative Courts. Lawful criminal courts no longer exist under common law, only administrative (civil) courts exist now.

Pursuant to Supreme Court Annotated Statute: “The State citizen is immune from any and all government attacks and procedure”. Dred Scott v. Sanford, 60 U.S. 19 How. 393. The Supreme Court has stated clearly:“...every man is independent of all laws, except those prescribed by nature. He is not bound by any institutions formed by his fellowmen [fellowman] without his consent.” Cruden v. Neale, 2 N.C. 338 2 S.E. 70.

This is why you see a growth of the Private Attorney Generals and 14th Amendment Bounty Hunters. Do you even know what those are?  Now the we have discovered the proper jurisdiction and venue to hold public officials accountable for their crimes we will be educating more. Every LEO, Attorney and Judge is guilty.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 08, 2016, 07:43:07 pm
This is why you see a growth of the Private Attorney Generals and 14th Amendment Bounty Hunters. Do you even know what those are?  Now the we have discovered the proper jurisdiction and venue to hold public officials accountable for their crimes we will be educating more. Every LEO, Attorney and Judge is guilty.

Barrett. I do not know of these concepts. Could you give a link where I might inform myself?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Thucidydes on July 08, 2016, 07:51:15 pm

As to Attorneys, they are all criminals the way I see it.


You paint with a broad brush.

Pursuant to Supreme Court Annotated Statute: “The State citizen is immune from any and all government attacks and procedure”. Dred Scott v. Sanford, 60 U.S. 19 How. 393. The Supreme Court has stated clearly:“...every man is independent of all laws, except those prescribed by nature. He is not bound by any institutions formed by his fellowmen [fellowman] without his consent.” Cruden v. Neale, 2 N.C. 338 2 S.E. 70.

No argument here. An acquaintance of mine quoted similar scripture in his defense. His name was Irwin Schiff. He died in prison.


This is why you see a growth of the Private Attorney Generals and 14th Amendment Bounty Hunters. Do you even know what those are?

Yes.

Now the we have discovered the proper jurisdiction and venue to hold public officials accountable for their crimes we will be educating more.

Good luck with that.

Every LEO, Attorney and Judge is guilty.

You cut no slack even for oath keepers who are still employed as LEO's ? For attorneys like those at the Institute for Justice?

A broad brush indeed.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 08, 2016, 08:14:46 pm


I stand with Tahn in klapton"s appeal.


Third.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Barrett K on July 08, 2016, 08:34:41 pm
This is why you see a growth of the Private Attorney Generals and 14th Amendment Bounty Hunters. Do you even know what those are?  Now the we have discovered the proper jurisdiction and venue to hold public officials accountable for their crimes we will be educating more. Every LEO, Attorney and Judge is guilty.

Barrett. I do not know of these concepts. Could you give a link where I might inform myself?

This recording will be helpful; https:http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=48361&cmd=tc

Listen to episode 994 fast forward to the 24 minute mark, the first 24 minutes are silent, Rod was set on mute.


The Private Attorney General/14th Amendment Bounty Hunter (a.k.a. PAG) is any non BAR member lawyer that brings suit against any agency or public official for his unlawful act or omission on behalf of himself or another. These are known as Title 42 TORT Claim. The judicial branch does not have subject matter jurisdiction over these cases. That's why the courts almost always throw the cases out. The jurisdiction actually belongs to the State's  Industrial Commission under the administration. Being that the purported governments and agencies are all individually incorporated (businesses), they fall under the Commission's jurisdiction.


Yes, I do paint with a broad brush. Every one of them has violated someone's rights, whether or not that person knew it or not is not relevant. The biggest problem is due process violations in every case. First off the LEO has no authority to determine probable cause, that belongs to the grand jury alone. Shall I go into the U.S. Attorneys Manual and SCOTUS decisions.

Another SCOTUS desision states that there can be no crime with out a victim (injured party) and the State [a legal fiction] can not be an injured party.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Baked at 420 on July 08, 2016, 10:34:28 pm
Every LEO, Attorney and Judge is guilty.

You cut no slack even for oath keepers who are still employed as LEO's ? For attorneys like those at the Institute for Justice?

A broad brush indeed.

LEOs are a disease.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 09, 2016, 06:23:26 am


I stand with Tahn in klapton"s appeal.


Third.

Here's the problem... if I let someone - anyone - continue with name calling and attacks I'm accused of "coddling" that person. If I attempt to nip it in the bud (new policy), I'm a nasty censor...  As I've said so many times, I can't win.  Many folks are happy to harp back to when the policy was not enforced well... or at all sometimes. Nobody liked that except the habitual name callers and those who enjoyed the resulting nasty arguments, of course.

This is not a democracy, and I can only follow the policy I've been given. Anyone who really can't stand it... is welcome to the job. Subject to the approval of Elias, of course. Ask him...
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 09, 2016, 11:42:35 am


I stand with Tahn in klapton"s appeal.


Third.

Here's the problem... if I let someone - anyone - continue with name calling and attacks I'm accused of "coddling" that person. If I attempt to nip it in the bud (new policy), I'm a nasty censor...  As I've said so many times, I can't win.  Many folks are happy to harp back to when the policy was not enforced well... or at all sometimes. Nobody liked that except the habitual name callers and those who enjoyed the resulting nasty arguments, of course.

This is not a democracy, and I can only follow the policy I've been given. Anyone who really can't stand it... is welcome to the job. Subject to the approval of Elias, of course. Ask him...

I understand ML. I wouldn't want your job at all and think you do a wonderful job at it, being between many rocks and a hard place. I hereby respectfully appeal to Elias, as you suggested, whose decision I will of course, accept  as proper and final, regardless of what it is. He does not even need to give his reasoning or thoughts. His place, his rules, his decision. Period. And Thanks Elias for the place.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 09, 2016, 11:50:10 am


LEOs are a disease.

LEO's are a symptom of the disease "mala prohibita".
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 09, 2016, 12:43:26 pm
LEO's are a symptom of the disease "mala prohibita".

:notworthy:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Baked at 420 on July 09, 2016, 06:24:07 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 09, 2016, 06:30:45 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Have a link please?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 09, 2016, 06:39:54 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Have a link please?
I found this- https://www.oathkeepers.org/call-to-action/

I don't read it as a call to attack though. More like a support role.

That said, I do not condone those actions either.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 09, 2016, 07:02:01 pm
Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Klapton,
I don't think that Thucidydes understands the difference of what Stewart took an oath to, which is more monumental than that of an attorney's oath if any.  The Oath that Stewart stands behind is that of protecting the Constitution.

He's this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ

.
I'm going to make a more literal guess.

He's this guy- http://thepetesantillishow.com/author/petesantillishow/

Or a close associate.

Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 09, 2016, 07:07:41 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Thank you for the link DL.

 Baked,


 I certainly do not see a call out to "express sympathy or deliver flowers to the families of fallen officers" as anything but an act of kindness.

  Nor  do I see volunteering " to physically step up, in your community, and stand united with your local police and your brother veterans to stand vigilant in mutual defense and defense of your community against any acts of terrorism, by any foe, be they hate filled racist cop killers or hate filled Islamic terrorists"  as “calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists” as you stated.

You have totally misrepresented his statements, if this is what you were referring to. Why are you constantly agitating for violence and discord?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: FDD on July 09, 2016, 08:35:12 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Thank you for the link DL.

 Baked,


 I certainly do not see a call out to "express sympathy or deliver flowers to the families of fallen officers" as anything but an act of kindness.

  Nor  do I see volunteering " to physically step up, in your community, and stand united with your local police and your brother veterans to stand vigilant in mutual defense and defense of your community against any acts of terrorism, by any foe, be they hate filled racist cop killers or hate filled Islamic terrorists"  as “calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists” as you stated.

You have totally misrepresented his statements, if this is what you were referring to. Why are you constantly agitating for violence and discord?

Maybe his hatred for the JBT's is a little higher than most here.

why is your love for them so high?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Tahn L. on July 09, 2016, 10:27:04 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Thank you for the link DL.

 Baked,


 I certainly do not see a call out to "express sympathy or deliver flowers to the families of fallen officers" as anything but an act of kindness.

  Nor  do I see volunteering " to physically step up, in your community, and stand united with your local police and your brother veterans to stand vigilant in mutual defense and defense of your community against any acts of terrorism, by any foe, be they hate filled racist cop killers or hate filled Islamic terrorists"  as “calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists” as you stated.

You have totally misrepresented his statements, if this is what you were referring to. Why are you constantly agitating for violence and discord?

Maybe his hatred for the JBT's is a little higher than most here.

why is your love for them so high?

I love truth, I love the correct moral path. I do not harbor a “hatred” towards any really. Even JBT’s.  I may hate their actions and abhor their philosophy of totalitarian power. I may hate the misery they cause others. But if I hate them, I will never be able to share with them my philosophy of ZAP.

Most humans  (not all) have a desire to do the right thing, they just get confused as to what that right thing is. Even those that dwell in evil, I do not hate. If they attempt to harm me or my loved ones, I will put them down. But I will not hate them.

I try and see both sides of a dilemma and hope to move all to a position where they can see the true beauty of Peace, of Love and Brotherhood, of Equal Rights and Equal Firepower. If we hold hatred towards a group, we will not do well in relating these truths. The biggest reason I do not hate, is it diminishes me. But even worse, it diminishes my message.

Peace, Love and Brotherhood
Through Equal Rights and Firepower.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 10, 2016, 12:29:42 am
Tahn L,
I have always followed my path with those elements, but have never seen it labeled, ZAP.  You have some fine words up there.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 10, 2016, 05:55:26 am
The biggest reason I do not hate, is it diminishes me.

This is the non-aggression principle in a nutshell. Bravo, Than. :) It is also the message behind: Love your neighbor as yourself. Do to others as you would have them do to you. I'm sure there are others. All too often buried in the altruistic stuff... they all boil down to enlightened self interest, a perfectly natural state.  It's hard to do much actual living if one is too busy throwing rocks (or bullets) at others... even when that becomes necessary for self defense.  But we can see the utter destruction of anything like peaceful life in those who nurture hate.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: heyoka on July 10, 2016, 10:46:55 am
Tahn L,
I have always followed my path with those elements, but have never seen it labeled, ZAP.  You have some fine words up there.
ZAP comics graphic novels were pretty good.
(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.victormoscoso.com%2Fgallery%2FFgallery6-2.jpg&f=1)
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 10, 2016, 11:22:08 am
Well . . . I didn't think of it that way, especially the gal driving the car.  It appears her head lights are on.  I was thinking about Zero Aggression People (ZAP).
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 10, 2016, 01:54:18 pm
Well . . . I didn't think of it that way, especially the gal driving the car.  It appears her head lights are on.  I was thinking about Zero Aggression People (ZAP).
:laugh: He knows that. Just being his usual self. :thrbiggrin:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Baked at 420 on July 10, 2016, 05:16:36 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Thank you for the link DL.

 Baked,


 I certainly do not see a call out to "express sympathy or deliver flowers to the families of fallen officers" as anything but an act of kindness.

  Nor  do I see volunteering " to physically step up, in your community, and stand united with your local police and your brother veterans to stand vigilant in mutual defense and defense of your community against any acts of terrorism, by any foe, be they hate filled racist cop killers or hate filled Islamic terrorists"  as “calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists” as you stated.

You have totally misrepresented his statements, if this is what you were referring to. Why are you constantly agitating for violence and discord?

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/oath-keepers-group-calls-for-armed-struggle-against-marxists-in-bonkers-reaction-to-dallas-shootings/
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: heyoka on July 10, 2016, 05:36:41 pm
I was thinking about Zero Aggression People (ZAP).
I hope you didn't forget to chant the mantra:
taxation is theft
taxation is theft
taxation is theft
taxation is theft
taxation is theft
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 10, 2016, 07:55:27 pm
Stewart made the news... Calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists... Brilliant, start a race war, that'll give you freedom.

Thank you for the link DL.

 Baked,


 I certainly do not see a call out to "express sympathy or deliver flowers to the families of fallen officers" as anything but an act of kindness.

  Nor  do I see volunteering " to physically step up, in your community, and stand united with your local police and your brother veterans to stand vigilant in mutual defense and defense of your community against any acts of terrorism, by any foe, be they hate filled racist cop killers or hate filled Islamic terrorists"  as “calling for militias to attack Black Lives Matter activists” as you stated.

You have totally misrepresented his statements, if this is what you were referring to. Why are you constantly agitating for violence and discord?

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/oath-keepers-group-calls-for-armed-struggle-against-marxists-in-bonkers-reaction-to-dallas-shootings/
  :rolleyes: Your source is blatantly biased. Twisting every single word for all it's worth.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 11, 2016, 12:45:23 am
Part of the propaganda
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on July 13, 2016, 06:48:55 am
www.oathkeepers.org is finally working again today via Comcast from southern Vermont. Don't know what changed.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on July 14, 2016, 04:29:52 pm
Oath Keepers is a privately held Nevada corporation. Its primary mission is to provide income for Rhodes. He screwed up and got disbarred from the practice of law, so OK is his only meal ticket.  It may be that at the beginning, his passion was based on principles. He seems to have abandoned those principles, as he demonstrated by ignoring the oath he took when he became a lawyer. You can't be both an oath keeper and an oath breaker. OK will eventually be run into the ground, crash and burn, because of Rhodes.
Klapton,
I don't think that Thucidydes understands the difference of what Stewart took an oath to, which is more monumental than that of an attorney's oath if any.  The Oath that Stewart stands behind is that of protecting the Constitution.

He's this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ

.
I'm going to make a more literal guess.

He's this guy- http://thepetesantillishow.com/author/petesantillishow/

Or a close associate.
Hmmmph......No reply to this. I must be right. Or close! :laugh:
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Jake on July 15, 2016, 01:09:22 am
www.oathkeepers.org is finally working again today via Comcast from southern Vermont. Don't know what changed.

The word was a new server and software layout for forum
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 16, 2016, 09:14:15 am
Yeah, I'm also not obligated to hang out here either.

Your choice. I do have an obligation to Elias, and the rest of TMM... and I have the authority to carry it out.  Attacking Elias was possibly not your best decision today. 7 day time out...

"Attacking Elias."  Apparently, anything remotely critical is now "attacking."  This description of what I said about Elias is laughable.  I guess the maternal exhortation that, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" is now law here.  Oh well.  The spirited discussion that made this place great in the past will not happen again here if this is the kind of environment he is trying to achieve.

Thank you for those who supported me during my exile.

I have something to say about that Santilli (FBI operative) hit piece that was linked here as soon I find it.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: MamaLiberty on July 16, 2016, 09:23:01 am
"Attacking Elias."  Apparently, anything remotely critical is now "attacking."  This description of what I said about Elias is laughable.  I guess the maternal exhortation that, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" is now law here.  Oh well.  The spirited discussion that made this place great in the past will not happen again here if this is the kind of environment he is trying to achieve.

Please talk to Elias about this. But yes, that was exactly what Elias said in not so many words. He wants discussion of the facts, the ideas, the possible actions, NOT personalities.  "Spirited discussion" does not depend on being critical of the PEOPLE involved. Criticism of the ideas, facts and possible actions is quite possible without getting critical about personalities or personal differences. And not that we're supposed to become robots or anything, but that old saw about not saying anything if you can't avoid being critical is a fairly good one.  I had to learn that myself, and it wasn't easy... but it is possible.

There is absolutely no way to please everyone, especially in a situation like a forum. So the person we need to please, more or less, is the guy that gives us the forum as a platform to discuss anything at all. If you can't handle that... well, what can I tell you?
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 16, 2016, 09:26:28 am
You have totally misrepresented his statements, if this is what you were referring to. Why are you constantly agitating for violence and discord?

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/oath-keepers-group-calls-for-armed-struggle-against-marxists-in-bonkers-reaction-to-dallas-shootings/

When you are accused of misrepresenting Stewart's words, you dig up a link that distorts them even more.

Here is the actual statement:

https://www.oathkeepers.org/call-to-action/

And here is the one the liberal media hoplophobes are frothing about in your linked article: 

https://www.oathkeepers.org/snipers-kill-four-officers-wound-seven-during-dallas-black-lives-matter-protest/

Nowhere in there does it mention "armed struggle."  Of particular note, the article says,

Quote
Essentially, Rhodes is saying

Why are they telling you what Rhodes "is saying" rather than letting the quotes speak for themselves?  Because they are telling you what to think.  And what, exactly is it they want you to think?

Militia is a scary word that means evil.  Telling people to be prepared to defend themselves and others by carrying scary gunses is the same thing as "calling for armed struggle."

And apparently you bought their line of "gun = dangerous threat" too.  Good job, bro.  Maybe you should "shelter in place" like your masters tell you the next time something bad goes down, because if you own a gun, you are in favor "armed struggle."

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 16, 2016, 09:29:54 am
There is absolutely no way to please everyone, especially in a situation like a forum. So the person we need to please, more or less, is the guy that gives us the forum as a platform to discuss anything at all. If you can't handle that... well, what can I tell you?

The person who "can't handle" stuff, is the person banning stuff.  This applies universally, not just to babysitting forums.  Again, he can do whatever he wants.  I did, btw, refrain from potty mouth this last time around, because Elias asked me to, for whatever that's worth.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on August 07, 2016, 08:38:25 am
Oath Keepers forum appears to be down again.  Time for a "new" poster to show up in this thread and tell us how naughty Stewart is.

.
Title: Re: Oath Keepers Website Down?
Post by: DiabloLoco on August 07, 2016, 12:45:21 pm
Oath Keepers forum appears to be down again.  Time for a "new" poster to show up in this thread and tell us how naughty Stewart is.

.
:laugh: :rolleyes: :dnftt: