The Mental Militia Forums

Activism Tactics => The Agitator => Topic started by: Novak on June 27, 2015, 05:22:04 pm

Title: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Novak on June 27, 2015, 05:22:04 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/11703283/Confederate-flag-is-a-symbol-of-Americas-culture-wars.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/11703283/Confederate-flag-is-a-symbol-of-Americas-culture-wars.html)

I came across this article on Drudge Report, and, in my opinion, it does a good job of capturing the frustration of people such as myself.  Specifically, the thought experiment beginning with "Now, pretend for a minute that you’re a 50-year old white man living somewhere in the Deep South..." really hit home.  I'm not a 50-year old or resident of the Deep South (though I am from there), but that section nailed it.  The author finished the article with a cop out ("What we need now is to come together."), but I was still surprised that someone was honest about what's going on.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Baked at 420 on June 27, 2015, 10:13:49 pm
It was a well written article.... but the Confederate flags mean something different to me than to the writer. For me, it is a reminder of my ancestors who fought under the flags... Both in the Alabama Infantry and in Thomas' Legion. I fly my flags to honor them.  For me, it's all about honor and history. I'm for Gay Marriage too, mostly because equal rights under the law matter to me, but also in part because I'm Bi and currently courting someone of the same sex...
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: da gooch on June 28, 2015, 03:17:28 pm
The article touched upon some but not by any means all of the hot button emotional issues from one side of the discussion.

What of (as Baked at 420 pointed out) the familial traditions of our ancesters?
What of the southern farmer who held no slaves but whose farm was razed by the damned to hell yankees for simply being within the confines of a confederate state?
What of the southern man who went to war to defend his home, family and community against invasion by a foreign army?

Slavery was NOT the cause of or reason for the "War of Northern Aggression".
( the phrase "civil war" is a classic oxymoron there is nothing civil about war and never has been. )

In his own words ....
-----

Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable [sic] in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.
-----
(bold emphasis is mine - gooch)

The whole idea of slavery being the cause of the war was a sales meme used to sell the war effort to the northern public to raise the money and the men the army needed to install the tyranny we know of today as the Federal Government upon the free states of the Confederacy.

The controversy around the Confederate Naval Ensign (the "Battle Flag" is square while the Naval Ensign is a rectangle) is just the most recent version of the Federal Government squashing any and all forms of individuality among the sovereign States of these united States. A tyrant bully pushing its weight (threat of violence) around by using the supposed victims of a concept that was perfectly legal when it was in use.

(/soap box)
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Bill St. Clair on June 28, 2015, 05:23:46 pm
I remember seeing those words of Mr. Lincoln (may he rot in hell). I also remember reading proclamations by the governments of southern states saying that they were seceding from the union in order to preserve the institution of slavery. I was born in Texas, but was taken to Wyoming while still an infant, so I have no cultural memory of the south other than a now-defunct hatred of singing with a twang. Which was it?
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: StillaGhost on June 28, 2015, 09:20:23 pm
 .
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Baked at 420 on June 28, 2015, 09:37:19 pm

 
   99 out of a hundred of the folks sniveling about that old rag don't know that the flag they're yapping about wasn't the first Confederate battle flag , nor was it flying over Fort Sumter when the first shot was fired.
 
  And ask 'em about the Bonnie Blue Flag and they get real confused.

Show them either of the first two national flags of the CSA and they won't even recognize them.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: StillaGhost on June 28, 2015, 11:22:54 pm
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Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: FDD on June 29, 2015, 06:10:15 am

 
   99 out of a hundred of the folks sniveling about that old rag don't know that the flag they're yapping about wasn't the first Confederate battle flag , nor was it flying over Fort Sumter when the first shot was fired.
 
  And ask 'em about the Bonnie Blue Flag and they get real confused.

Show them either of the first two national flags of the CSA and they won't even recognize them.

 
 
  Exactly........but then ask the average person where the location of Gettysburg is and you'll see a good many get it wrong ,usually a couple of states too far south.

Pennsylvania 
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: StillaGhost on June 29, 2015, 08:15:55 am
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Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: FDD on June 29, 2015, 05:41:39 pm
from what I understand about the civil war time, that it was started at Harpers Ferry, WV, and the Pres at the time sent in the Marines to quill an unrest that was going on there.
At the same time the southern state were talking about secession from the Union.

Harpers Ferry was also where the US Gov, was having all it's guns made.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: fred.greek on June 29, 2015, 11:27:06 pm
My understanding is that a significant aspect of the “Civil War” was foreign influence, prodding both the north and south. It’s a great plan, divide and conquer.  Pit the locals against each other, to fight each other, and you get to swoop in later and take it all.

FORTUNATELY for the USA, at the time, we did not wipe each other out, or become so weak we could be invaded.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on June 30, 2015, 02:32:06 am
My understanding is that a significant aspect of the “Civil War” was foreign influence, prodding both the north and south. It’s a great plan, divide and conquer.  Pit the locals against each other, to fight each other, and you get to swoop in later and take it all.

FORTUNATELY for the USA, at the time, we did not wipe each other out, or become so weak we could be invaded.

But sure you did.  You were most easily invaded.  Proof enough that a man who is wanting to claim independence, cannot think of the USA (aka government entity) and himself as separate entities but rather always as "we."  You also referred to the fortune as belonging to the USA and then said WE right afterwards, marrying yourself in the rest of our eyes, with the USA government entity.  Peculiar view, but also very common in nation states where the government holds total sway over the general populace.

Your ancestors were most easily enslaved, in that they were baited into a rigged game by an internal conqueror (Lincoln's USA) financed and backed by various external interests along with corresponding internal corruption.

This "we" you speak of does not, and never did exist.  You can tell how this abusive relationship works (wife(confederacy) wants to leave the relationship (Union), and dear Abby Lenin in the role of Hubby, beats her half dead and then rapes her while she struggles until she stops.)  The kids get raised by abusive daddy, who then lets some kids lord it over the others, until the kids identify ONLY with daddy, while mommy's left to be daddy's plaything tied to the table in the rape room (courtesy Saddam Hussein and his ilk, all "daddies" and "uncles" copycatting the original big daddy LIncoln.)

As someone put it... IN EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD... slavery vanished slowly as it proved to be less effective than the fraud of democratic government (it is easier to promise the suckers they'll keep some while giving you most of it, than to whip them constantly and watch out for rebellion... in exchange, they'll drag each other back down into the new slavery and save you the expense of being ever vigilant and hiring expensive overseers to keep them slaves in line.).  In America, this "we" you speak of, were stupid and vicious enough to fight a huge war over something, and it wasn't even slavery!  Whether truly about slavery, or not, that single statement, and I forgot where I've read it years back, pretty much covers exactly why any form of change in America WILL be violent, regardless our personal wishes, and why so many Americans are expatriating or getting out of the red states where the takeover will be far more violent than anywhere else.

Given the mental state of the average American, the takeover WILL happen, because the capability for violence IS NOT the measure of freedom of a people, or male chickens would be free range birds instead of stew.  Intelligence and REAL education in sciences and history are the true measure of a people's capability, and don't even bother expecting Americans to exhibit this.  That was bred out and stamped out of the entire cultural landscape, decades if not a century ago.  What's left is a manipulated farce.

These are my observations.  YMMV.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Bill St. Clair on June 30, 2015, 07:06:04 am
America. Land on its knees. Home of the slave.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: DiabloLoco on June 30, 2015, 03:56:42 pm
America. Land on its knees. Home of the slave.
Ha. I've always said, "Land of the FEE".
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Bill St. Clair on June 30, 2015, 04:36:53 pm
America. Land on its knees. Home of the slave.
Ha. I've always said, "Land of the FEE".

Sounds better than my version.

America. Land of the fee. Home of the slave.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: Byte Me on July 01, 2015, 01:17:41 pm
Land of the fee, home of the plundered.

There's really only one flag that truly represents what 'murica has become and that's the Jolly Roger.

All your plunder are belong to us.
Title: Re: "Confederate flag is a symbol of America's culture wars" by Matt K. Lewis
Post by: da gooch on July 01, 2015, 03:17:49 pm
from what I understand about the civil war time, that it was started at Harpers Ferry, WV, and the Pres at the time sent in the Marines to quill an unrest that was going on there.
At the same time the southern state were talking about secession from the Union.

Harpers Ferry was also where the US Gov, was having all it's guns made.

Please forgive my nit picking but the first shot was fired at Fort Sumter, SC when a Confederate battery fired upon the fort to attempt to stop the resupply of the fort which was, at the time, under seige by the Confederate forces in an effort to force the Union troops out of Charleston Harbor and to free up the port for Confederate use.

Harpers Ferry was indeed a Federal Armory but not the site of the start of the "War of Northern Aggression". (See = John Brown's attack on Harpers Ferry.)

edit to correct spelling of course
seige - siege - whatever - the "blue bellies" were surrounded