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Partner Sites => FIJA - Fully Informed Jury Association => Topic started by: WWalker on June 13, 2013, 03:44:32 pm

Title: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: WWalker on June 13, 2013, 03:44:32 pm

Or just any prospective juror who has rejected blind obedience to authority.

I just received my first Jury Service Summons this week.

It seems that the system is doing everything it can to ensure that only the most obedient, malleable minded sheeple, who will simple follow the judge’s orders,  even get called to jury selection, let alone seated on a jury.

I composed more of an explanation, but I can't figure out how to attach copies of the paper work they sent me.

If someone could help me out I would like to post a copy of the "Questionnaire As To Qualification For Jury Service" (or as I call it, the obedience test) and two other documents that I received.
 

Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Bill St. Clair on June 13, 2013, 03:59:24 pm
If you have an electronic camera, e.g. in your phone, you should be able to photograph the pages and get them on your computer as JPG images. You can attach those to posts on the forum, or email them to me (PM for email address), and I'll put them on my web site and give you links you can post here in the forum.

A scanner should be able to give you similar JPG images, or package them all up in a single PDF file.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: WWalker on June 14, 2013, 05:35:18 pm
 The” Questionnaire as to Qualification for Jury Service” looks to me like an obedience test.

Most all the questions are none of their damn business, although things they could probably find out on their own fairly easy.  It seems to me they just want to see if people will (obediently) willingly, give them personal information about themselves and others.

The Affidavit for Excusal, I have posted simply as a reference in relation to question #2 on the “obedience test” questionnaire.  They have already printed my full name and address in two places, on the back of the questionnaire were they want me to write it no less.

The Jury Service Summons (PDF file), I have posted mostly for the entertainment value.   But, also as a reference in relation to the request for a phone number on the “obedience test”.  Here it clearly states that I will be notified by mail if needed, yet they are trying to get a phone number.

Item 17 on the obedience test states the requirements for eligibility.  So I have provided that information on line 3 and 4.  On line 18 I have indicated that I feel I am eligible for jury service.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hrbxl96677x6p34/wGcWUVQ_YL   (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hrbxl96677x6p34/wGcWUVQ_YL)
 I will be very surprised if I passed the test.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: MamaLiberty on June 15, 2013, 05:38:23 am
Couldn't read it very well, but I'm surprised at some of the questions that seem to be missing. The last one I got in Calif. demanded I tell them which magazines I took, which organizations I belonged to, and how long I'd been a member... things like that. I refused to answer any of them and sent the paper in with less info than you gave. I was called into the jury selection process anyway, and a lawyer (or judge, I forget which) tried to brow beat me into answering them verbally. I simply declined to answer ANYTHING and, eventually, they let me go when the rest of the prospective jurors began to clap and quietly cheer me on. I'm sure I polluted THAT jury pool.  :threvil: And that was at least 20 years ago. I'd probably be in irons there now. Don't know anyone who's been called to be a juror here, so don't know what's involved. The only person I know who threatened to take a traffic ticket to a jury had the charges dismissed then. Stubborn old coot. :)

You are under no obligation to speak to any of them even if under arrest, so why should you be when merely temporarily kidnapped and held against your will for this?  That said, if there was the slightest chance of doing anything effective for the defendant, I'd go through a lot to get onto a jury, but that's pretty much a thing of the past now I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: WWalker on June 17, 2013, 09:54:16 am
They already had my full name printed on the questionnaire, and my full name and address printed on the back in two places.

So were they asked for a phone # I wrote "Do not wish to receive calls"
Line 2 Mailing address? I wrote, "How do you think I got this"
Requirements to be on a jury according to line 17: Resident of Gallatin county 30 days.  Resident of Montana 30 days.  18 years old.
So line 3 How long have you been a resident here?  I wrote "30+ days".  Number of years in Montana? I wrote "30+ days".
Line 4 Age? I wrote "over 18".

Well Jury Nullification is a good idea.......but how many of the small fraction of potential jurors who are "fully informed" and willing to do the right thing, are going to be willing to answer these kinds of questions for the chance?????

Just another reminder that all political means are a complete waist of time.  :angry:

Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: WWalker on March 28, 2014, 01:12:24 pm
So....I have been summonsed (if that is a word) twice now (first trial didn't happen) for jury duty since sending my incomplete "qualification" form in.  Just got released from "duty" after wasting most of 3 hours of my life this morning.

So we (the jury pool) are all sitting in the little room this morning and the bailiff comes and gets me, tells me the judge would like to speak with me....I got my own private sit down with the not yet robed man before anything kicked off.

I was of course almost immediately threatened with violence and imprisonment for my contemptuous behavior relating to not answering all the questions on the questionnaire form. 

He spewed the company line about citizenship, duty, honor, social contracts...which I informed him I have not signed. I stated that I was there against my will and he well knew, based on fact that they include a threat of violence in the summons letter, which I carried with me, that states in bold type "Failure to do so may result in a law enforcement officer responding to your home or place of employment to ensure your appearance."

We hit on a lot of different topics in a fairly short period of time..........

I asked him what his policy was on informing jurors of their right to judge the law...jury nullification....well he seemed confused for a moment and quickly defaulted to the company line that that is not what we do here...it is not our job...the law is the law and we must obey the law.............if you don't like the law......................and I nearly puked.....maybe that was just the nervousness and adrenaline rush :dontknow:

In the end he told me that if I left him a phone # (since I refused to do so on the questionnaire) that he would actually like to contact me and have lunch to continue further discussion.....and I think I believe him.....if I can find time to get my ducks in a row and get documentation together...I'm not the best at memorizing and quoting all the pertinent information I would like.....I may try to set a meeting.

Long story longer............I am still in the jury pool...........I go into jury selection...........

The defense attorney starts asking individual prospective jurors how they would vote on a hypothetical trial based on a certain Montana law.  The answer he was fishing for and getting.....wait for it......"The law is the law".  Then he asked me.  I replied that I do not agree with the law, and why...and he replies that if we were in a social setting that we would be in agreement.  He tries again to get the answer he wants.......I reply that I will not compromise my principals based on what the law says................

And both the lawyers bum rush "the bench"....there is a fairly long meeting of the minds....and when the defense attorney continues, he says that he agrees with me "intellectually" (I believe was the term)....but "we" would leave it at that.

And off to work I go... though it is hard to schedule any work for a day that your are to be at the big government building under threat of violence.         
   
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: MamaLiberty on March 28, 2014, 01:37:29 pm
What a great idea to have lunch with the judge. It sounds as if he's at least a little open to some new ideas.

Ho to the Fully Informed Jury site here: http://fija.org/ if you are not already familiar with it.

 http://fija.org/document-library/brochures/   Here you can download and print a number of excellent items so he can read them again later, and hopefully share with others.

Good luck with this! If you'd like to talk to the Montana FIJA contact person, you can get that information here: (406) 442-7800  They are updating the list on the website, and it's not available right now. The contact person should be able to help you discover any sort of information or support material available at FIJA.

Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on March 29, 2014, 02:12:48 am
What a great idea to have lunch with the judge. It sounds as if he's at least a little open to some new ideas.

Ho to the Fully Informed Jury site here: http://fija.org/ if you are not already familiar with it.

 http://fija.org/document-library/brochures/   Here you can download and print a number of excellent items so he can read them again later, and hopefully share with others.

Good luck with this! If you'd like to talk to the Montana FIJA contact person, you can get that information here: (406) 442-7800  They are updating the list on the website, and it's not available right now. The contact person should be able to help you discover any sort of information or support material available at FIJA.

I'm kinda wanting to see if I get picked for jury duty out here, given the hell I've given some hypocrites recently, I strongly doubt that.  Hah.  They'll ask I not pack a self defense tool (obviously only court employees may do so, us mere productives are not privileged enough to have any rights in that place, even though they demand we go), actually the deputy jack boot I talked to threatened me with arrest, so at least I know where he stands on senseless and irrational gun laws, strangely he wouldn't guarantee my safety saying there are no guarantees...  (Yeah, freedom in America, riiiiight.  I'll buy that for a dollar.)
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Klapton Isgod on March 29, 2014, 05:24:37 am
I recently went through jury selection.  We all had these card with a number on them, which we were to hold up when answering affirmatively to the questions.  (The lawyers would then jot them down if they wanted, etc. to help them decide who they would reject, etc.)

It was a drug case.  He allegedly sold heroin to a cop.  They also had a charge for possession of "a plastic bag with marajuana residue," to which I literally laughed out loud when I heard it.

There were several questions that caused me to raise my number, and a brief exchange with the judge over one of them.

"Do you believe that drugs should not be illegal?"  I raised my number.

"Can you set aside that opinion and still enforce the law anyway" (paraphrased).  I indicated I could not be raising my number.

The judge asked the question again, in different words.  I said, "I will act according to my conscience - period."  At this point, I knew the prosecution would have me dismissed.

"Are you more likely to believe statements made by a police officer than other people?"  Several people raised their numbers.  When asked if they could set that prejudice aside, all but one answered affirmatively.

"Are you LESS likely to believe statements made by a police officer than other people?"  I shot my number up enthusiastically, and smiled at the JBT bailiffs.  "Can you set that aside, blah blah" shot my number up again.  I was SO hoping that the judge would question me directly again, because I SO wanted to say, "Cops lie all the time!  Duh!"  But she didn't.

There is NO question that they design the process specifically to weed out anyone who will nullify their laws.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: MamaLiberty on March 29, 2014, 06:50:33 am
Just an observation ... somewhat OT..

New immigrant to a space colony gets the lecture about non-aggression, and is shown the airlock...

He asks one of the old timers if he's ever committed aggression and the guy just laughs. "I'm alive, ain't I?"
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on March 29, 2014, 10:15:03 am
Just an observation ... somewhat OT..

New immigrant to a space colony gets the lecture about non-aggression, and is shown the airlock...

He asks one of the old timers if he's ever committed aggression and the guy just laughs. "I'm alive, ain't I?"

Yeah, we all love The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Lonewolf72 on March 29, 2014, 11:06:00 am
I had jury duty recently, myself. Never got out of the jury pool. I do have to say, from what I saw, the selection process stacks the deck in favor of the state. That being said, the case that the jury was being selected for was an actual crime. An assault charge. Did the guy do it? I don't know, didn't stay for the trial. But it was nice to have been there for something besides a made up crime.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Byte Me on May 27, 2014, 06:25:59 pm
Got my 'invitation' to participate the other day.  Yellowstone County.  Must return within 7 days?  I literally lol'd.

1.  Has my name & juror number conveniently filled in for me in a nice gvmt approved type face.
2.  Address:  Well, since you are receiving this in return, it got to me at the address you sent it.
3.  Round trip mileage from home to the Court (capitalized as if it were so very formally important!):  About a 15 min drive
4.  Telephone:  Home:  Nunya    Work:  Also Nunya    Cellular:  I really lol'd again
5.  How long have you resided there?  30+ days    Number of years in Montana?  30+ days
6.  Married?  Nunya    Age:  Over 18   Gender:  Well my name's not Sue...see#1
7.  Do you have children?  Nunya   Age:   Now you're just messing with me right?     Gender:  Are you for real?  What's the address of that sex offender website?
8.  What education have you had:  Unfortunately, I was indoctrinated by the state...though I can honestly say, it didn't stick.
9.  Are you employed at present?  You're stealing enough from my pay that you aught to know!   Occupation:  Nunya
10.  Employer's name:  Nunya     Employer's address:  Nunya
11.  a.  If you are married, name of spouse:  Nunya
      b.  If married, occupation of spouse:  Nunya
      c.  If retired, or not working, give last occupation:  Nunya
      d.  If married, give spouse's employer:  Nunya
12.  It pretty much looks like WWalker's from here.
 
Can't wait to introduce some of the nice citizens of Yellowstone County to FIJA!  And I really am looking forward to the Starship Trooper-esque speech about citizenship.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on May 28, 2014, 12:18:52 am
Got my 'invitation' to participate the other day.  Yellowstone County.  Must return within 7 days?  I literally lol'd.

1.  Has my name & juror number conveniently filled in for me in a nice gvmt approved type face.
2.  Address:  Well, since you are receiving this in return, it got to me at the address you sent it.
3.  Round trip mileage from home to the Court (capitalized as if it were so very formally important!):  About a 15 min drive
4.  Telephone:  Home:  Nunya    Work:  Also Nunya    Cellular:  I really lol'd again
5.  How long have you resided there?  30+ days    Number of years in Montana?  30+ days
6.  Married?  Nunya    Age:  Over 18   Gender:  Well my name's not Sue...see#1
7.  Do you have children?  Nunya   Age:   Now you're just messing with me right?     Gender:  Are you for real?  What's the address of that sex offender website?
8.  What education have you had:  Unfortunately, I was indoctrinated by the state...though I can honestly say, it didn't stick.
9.  Are you employed at present?  You're stealing enough from my pay that you aught to know!   Occupation:  Nunya
10.  Employer's name:  Nunya     Employer's address:  Nunya
11.  a.  If you are married, name of spouse:  Nunya
      b.  If married, occupation of spouse:  Nunya
      c.  If retired, or not working, give last occupation:  Nunya
      d.  If married, give spouse's employer:  Nunya
12.  It pretty much looks like WWalker's from here.
 
Can't wait to introduce some of the nice citizens of Yellowstone County to FIJA!  And I really am looking forward to the Starship Trooper-esque speech about citizenship.

WOW!

And I thought I was hard on my county jackboots.

You, sir/ma'am, are a real piece of work.  I'll toast you a sweet scottish beer anytime. :D
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Byte Me on May 28, 2014, 08:31:52 am
Ah shucks!   ^_^
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: slidemansailor on May 28, 2014, 05:43:44 pm
My jury questionnaire came in today's mail, along with one for Mrs. Sailor.  I filled it out fairly completely, ready for the Mrs. to copy the relevant data onto hers.

Shortly thereafter, I pop on over here to find this thread among many I had seen before and read the updates. This gave me momentary pause to reflect.  Why did I so freely give them my information?

Some of you may remember my war with the Census run amok:
http://www.idaholiberty.com/2010/09/21/found-my-line/ (http://www.idaholiberty.com/2010/09/21/found-my-line/)
http://www.idaholiberty.com/2010/10/03/found-my-line-update/ (http://www.idaholiberty.com/2010/10/03/found-my-line-update/)
So it's not like I am unwilling to stand up against statist over-reach.

After brief consideration, I realized I do want to sit on a jury. Mostly because I would appreciate a jury of my peers if the state ever launches a legal attack on me.

Unfortunately, I won't be on the jury.  Documented FIJA activism, Libertarian activism, Constitutional Sheriff activism, don't watch television, read independent, think independent....

"Baliff. Duct-tape his mouth, bag him and toss him out! YESTERDAY!!!"
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Byte Me on May 30, 2014, 09:43:35 am
You make a good point slidemansailor.  As much as I abhor the system, I would definitely prefer the teensy weensy possibility of an informed juror being on any jury of mine.  However, it galls me to think that my participating in their system will then give them some 'proof' that my participation is my acceptance.  Never mind that my participation is had by threat of real violence.   :angry:

I think I will play nice and fill in the boxes that they already know.  Everything else will just be blank.  Maybe there's no need to pee in the clerk's cheerio's just yet.   :laugh:

Thanks for weighing in!
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: da gooch on June 07, 2014, 06:23:44 pm
Mine was the first or second week in May and I filled out the lines that they already knew anyway.
My rationale for answering their form as they wanted ... I want a chance to fight back against the War on Liberty/Some Drugs/Et Cetera ad infinitum.

These are not my answers but my thoughts on their form.
Phone = It's in the phone book so why not?
Address = I got this in the mail ... Duh.
And so on and so forth.

Residency questions were yes or no so that wasn't any problem.
I was called to the jury selection "meeting" (I don't remember the word they used for meeting ... <shrug> ) and sat through the basic explanations without any ethical problems other than the unspoken "threat of violence".

The case was a "civil case" where a family was suing an ambulance company for lack of proper response to their loved one, etc.
I was not chosen.

The last time I was on a jury the case was a "criminal case" and it was about a man stabbing another man seven times in the chest while three witnesses looked on. Kind of hard to fault the PTB's for anything there.

I am still waiting for my chance to nullify one of the "victimless crimes" that the PTB's just love to prosecute. They make so much money on those kind.

So far I have been called twice and served once so I do hope that one of these days they will make the mistake of putting me on a drug trial or some other opportunity to nullify those 'laws'.

Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: MamaLiberty on June 08, 2014, 07:39:17 am
It's been a long time since I saw a jury "questionnaire,"  but the last one in California had questions requiring information such as: magazine subscriptions (probably ask now about on line reading and so forth)
clubs or organization memberships
hobbies or recreational habits

Don't remember a lot of it, just that I refused to answer any such personal questions. Now, of course, they already know all that to start with by analyzing your communications, on line habits, and spending patterns. I'd be very surprised if they didn't know all of it, and only ask on the questionnaire to see if you will lie about any of it. Best just to tell the truth if you plan to answer any of it.
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: WWalker on July 03, 2014, 12:28:06 pm
Well I just returned from my third "call to jury duty".............another apparently victimless crime.

I have chosen to take the approach that it is better to plant a liberty seed in 15+ minds (everyone in the room during jury selection) than to go along with the program for a chance to get one person off for some victimless crime one time.  Every time I am not on a jury my name goes back in the hate for another opportunity to pollute 15 new minds.

I have had mixed feelings about this.  I hate to see anyone victimized by the criminal injustice system, but millions of hearts and minds is what is required for the paradigm shift necessary for a free society.
So I have chosen to openly speak my mind during the jury selection process.  This judge has already threatened me with contempt.  We've had our "in cambers" chat.  And after today I think I would really have to push it to get him to throw me in a cage.

There were gasps all around when I stated that I believed, based on much evidence, that police are trained and paid to lie. 

If I ever end up in a court room I do NOT want any of the mindless sheep who were at this mornings jury selection "judging" me!

The prosecution went through her, "The Law Is The Law and You Must Follow The Law" even if you disagree with it, speech and asked if anyone had a problem with that.  My hand shot up.

I stated that the jury was the 4th branch of "government" and provided a "check" and "balance" against unjust laws.  That is was the jury's duty to set in judgment of unjust laws.  One of the other jurors piped up immediately to disagree, and help the sate out with a little horizontal enforcement indoctrination. :puke:

Then the prosecution came up with a hypothetical....What if the state of Montana made it illegal to rock in a rocking chair on Sunday afternoon.  Someone was charge with rocking in a rocking chair on a Sunday afternoon.  There were plenty of witnesses and no doubt this person was rocking in a rocking chair on Sunday afternoon.  Would anyone in the room have a problem voting to convict this person?

One young lady (who in now sitting in judgment of another human being) questioned directly on this hypothetical actually said "it would be unjust and she would feel really bad about it, but she would vote to convict"; some for rocking in a rocking chair on Sunday afternoon if the judge and prosecution told here it was a crime.

I just wanted to scream WE ARE SO FUCKED!!!!!!!!!!

At the beginning in the judges spiel, he read something about the jury being a gard against tyranny.

What the fuck do these people think tyranny is?????????? Rhetorical question...these people do NOT think.

End rant.
Decompress.


Prepare for next opportunity.   

 
 
Title: Re: Montana, Gallatin County Justice Court, War On Fully Informed Juries?
Post by: Adventurer, Explorer, Inquiring Mind. on July 04, 2014, 07:01:13 pm
Well I just returned from my third "call to jury duty".............another apparently victimless crime.

I have chosen to take the approach that it is better to plant a liberty seed in 15+ minds (everyone in the room during jury selection) than to go along with the program for a chance to get one person off for some victimless crime one time.  Every time I am not on a jury my name goes back in the hate for another opportunity to pollute 15 new minds.

I have had mixed feelings about this.  I hate to see anyone victimized by the criminal injustice system, but millions of hearts and minds is what is required for the paradigm shift necessary for a free society.
So I have chosen to openly speak my mind during the jury selection process.  This judge has already threatened me with contempt.  We've had our "in cambers" chat.  And after today I think I would really have to push it to get him to throw me in a cage.

There were gasps all around when I stated that I believed, based on much evidence, that police are trained and paid to lie. 

If I ever end up in a court room I do NOT want any of the mindless sheep who were at this mornings jury selection "judging" me!

The prosecution went through her, "The Law Is The Law and You Must Follow The Law" even if you disagree with it, speech and asked if anyone had a problem with that.  My hand shot up.

I stated that the jury was the 4th branch of "government" and provided a "check" and "balance" against unjust laws.  That is was the jury's duty to set in judgment of unjust laws.  One of the other jurors piped up immediately to disagree, and help the sate out with a little horizontal enforcement indoctrination. :puke:

Then the prosecution came up with a hypothetical....What if the state of Montana made it illegal to rock in a rocking chair on Sunday afternoon.  Someone was charge with rocking in a rocking chair on a Sunday afternoon.  There were plenty of witnesses and no doubt this person was rocking in a rocking chair on Sunday afternoon.  Would anyone in the room have a problem voting to convict this person?

One young lady (who in now sitting in judgment of another human being) questioned directly on this hypothetical actually said "it would be unjust and she would feel really bad about it, but she would vote to convict"; some for rocking in a rocking chair on Sunday afternoon if the judge and prosecution told here it was a crime.

I just wanted to scream WE ARE SO FUCKED!!!!!!!!!!

At the beginning in the judges spiel, he read something about the jury being a gard against tyranny.

What the fuck do these people think tyranny is?????????? Rhetorical question...these people do NOT think.

End rant.
Decompress.


Prepare for next opportunity.

And herein the so called ZAP/NAP representation which most people assume is right, is wrong.  We are so far beyond the event horizon that we'll never win this by "changing" hearts and minds.  That's the issue.  Hearts don't change.  And the mind follows.  Once a gullible moron or tyrannical asshat, always a gullible moron or tyrannical asshat.  That will never change as long as the universe exists.

ZAP doesn't work right now, because we always let them hit us, and find excuses for not hitting back, HARD.  And they keep crossing our lines in the sand, we keep redrawing them.  We've been out of sand for some time.  We just haven't noticed.

I gave up on the bullshit excuse that we can change this shithole of a world.  It won't change until it goes to the ammo box.  The only issue I've spotted with that is that nobody ever went "far enough."  The good guys always hold back and fail to pull out that last seedling of evil.  They leave the churches standing, they leave the courthouses existing, they leave that last flag or an inkling of loyalty to some false God called Government.  And like all "sin" or evil in general, it sprouts the whole goddamn tree again.