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Special Interest => Gulching/Self-Sufficiency => Topic started by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 03:18:00 pm

Title: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 03:18:00 pm
Women have strengths that amaze men.
They bear hardships and they carry burdens, but they hold happiness, love and joy.
They smile when they want to scream. They sing when they want to cry. They cry when they are happy
and laugh when they are nervous. They fight for what they believe in. They stand up to inju stice.
They don't take 'no' for an answer when they believe there is a better solution. They go without so their family can have. They go to the doctor with a frightened friend. They love unconditionally.
They cry when their children excel and cheer when their friends get awards. T hey are happy when they hear about a birth or a wedding. Their hearts break when a friend dies.
They grieve at the loss of a family member, yet they are strong when they think there is no strength left.
They know that a hug and a kiss can heal a broken heart. Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you to show how much they care about you.
The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning They bring joy, hope and love.
They have compassion and ideals. They give moral support to their family and friends.
Women have vital things to say and everything to give,
HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE TINY FLAW IN WOMEN,

IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Joel on July 30, 2009, 03:30:04 pm
Ah!   :idea1:

So that was the problem!  My ex-wife wasn't a woman!
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 03:38:00 pm
That is mean, but most men feel that way about ex's. My ex husband most likely felt that way about me before he passed on. He was a great guy but couldn't inderstand why I loved him so he said all kinds of mean things. One day I couldn't take it any more and the rest is history.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Claire on July 30, 2009, 04:31:57 pm
They bring joy, hope and love. They have compassion and ideas. They give moral support to their
family and friends. Women have vital things to say and everything to give.

Mmmmm ... well, that's a pretty broad generalization. I've certainly been blessed to know women like that. But I've also known a few .... well, I don't think I ever met Joel's ex-wife. But I'm pretty sure I've encountered her twin sister. And I've met women who were so giving it became oppressive.

Quote
HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE FLAW IN WOMEN, IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH.

But I agree that this part is generally true. Women do tend to undervalue themselves. We're so busy picking at our own flaws & doubting our own abilities that we don't see the good in ourselves.

And just to make this more freedom-oriented, I perceive that women's general lack of self-confidence keeps us from trying or suceeding at a lot of things we could otherwise do. ("Oh, me? I couldn't handle a gun." "I could never understand how solar power works." "I don't understand what that economist meant; I must be too stupid to understand economics.")

Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Bear on July 30, 2009, 04:34:45 pm
I'm going to make a big generalization here, but ...

If there is one flaw in women, it's that they are too prone to
self-doubt.

If you figure that one out, you've got the world by the tail.

Bear
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 05:16:56 pm
Of core we doubt ourselves. Look even the Bible starts off saying that it is woman's fault that man was thrown out of the Garden of Eden, because we supposedly listened to the serpent.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: dogsledder54 on July 30, 2009, 05:26:11 pm
You can't generalize that broadly. Some women are so sweet and nice that you can't say enough GOOD about them. But some are totally devoid of ANY redeeming features. Go figure.  :huh:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: iloilo on July 30, 2009, 05:27:24 pm
 The Bible was written by men.
Try reading The Chalice and the Blade,
and other works by and for women.
Forget all the Bible stuff about women: those guys were just trying to destroy the Goddess faith.
ff
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 05:47:26 pm
I understand that there are books that lift women up but the first thing little girls learn about religion is from the Bible.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: iloilo on July 30, 2009, 06:21:14 pm
Well, no not all of us: some little girls learn from the Tao and Buddha.

We don't get such a creepy bad self image as Bible-reading women get.

I think that if this is so, that girls have other sources of world creation myths and stories, even many Native culture legends, then there is less unlearning to do than for those who believe all the bad stuff about women that is in the Bible.  I think the Bible is totally abusive to women, just so those old guys could smudge out the Goddess part of faith.  Creeps!
ff

 
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 30, 2009, 06:55:39 pm
Jesus loves little girls just as much as little boys.  What they learn about Jesus is what their parents teach them about Jesus.  Or even better, what Jesus teaches them about Jesus.

In other words, one's religion (or lack thereof) is whatever they choose it to be, and whatever they choose to focus on as being truly important.  I see no need to throw out Baby Jesus with the bath water.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 07:32:23 pm
I had no intention of starting a conflict. Just when I was a little girl my dad said that girls where not equal to boys that girls needed boy to keep them from making the same mistakes as Eve did. He also told me to think twice before I did anything then think again, that way I would have a better chance of doing the right thing. When I was all grown he told me that he had told my step brother the same thing. It would have been nice if I would have known that when I was little for it has taken me a long time to get to the point that I know I am just as able as any man to think and figure out how to do for myself. Good thing I did finally learn that or my husband would be in a world of hurt now. Seeings he has had a stroke and needs me more then ever.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: dogsledder54 on July 30, 2009, 07:34:57 pm
What religion teaches girls and boys about women, is NOT what is in the Bible. It can be quoted to back up almost any opinion, bias, or belief that the quoter wants to back up. Fraud, theft, even murder. It's words are twisted in every way possible, and when the words are not twisted, the ideas are. But if the reader really GROKS the Bible, they will not use it for ill, but for good. The IDEA about women in the Bible is NOT that they are inferior OR superior to men. But you can quote it to make it seem that way. That's MY opinion.
What religion teaches girls and boys about women, is NOT what is in the Bible, but whatever the attitude of the TEACHER is. Good or bad.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 07:43:18 pm
True that is why my dad did twist it and so did the Catholic church, to make little girls think that they where naturally bad and so they would listen to any man. I was a slave to my first husband until I found out he gave drugs to our son so the baby would sleep while I worked. My second husband helped me see that I was worth something and my husband now needs me and tells me from time to time just how much he is glad I am his wife. He calls me his angel in his arms.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: SoundTheBell on July 30, 2009, 08:48:43 pm
Religion aside, look at what girls are bombarded with everyday.
Billboards of airbrushed supermodels that look nothing like them.
Television shows, magazines, video games full of perfectly-proportioned girls and women that look nothing like them.
Being clustered into herds with one teacher for 30 kids where the "if you're different, you're lesser" attitude is both lived and held up as the pinnacle of life's meaning, where one adult can't possibly keep up and do all of the intervention against this self-eating behavior that needs to be done when this many kids are clustered together.
Boys taught that if they sleep around they're more of a man, girls told that if they do the same thing they're worthless sluts.

In today's society it almost takes a miracle for a girl to see herself as worthwhile, competent, confident. Wresting her freedom from society's groupthink is probably the hardest thing she'll ever do, IF she manages to do it at all. Most don't.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 09:23:29 pm
True there are still times I forget that I am worth something. But when my husband smiles at me because I gave him his meal in the bedroom so he can still play his favorite games or when he wants to go to the mail box and has to have me drive him I feel like I am worth something. It may sound funny that these little things mean so much to me but the look on his face is priceless. Also when I learn something new or help someone learn something that too makes me see I am useful.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: jimoutside on July 30, 2009, 09:49:02 pm
Don't give up hope, Cordo. I agree with most everything you said in your initial post. As for faith, my Christian faith, and the way I read the Bible, it does not put down women or say they are inferior to men-- in fact Adam was more at fault for the Garden of Eden sin-- Eve was deceived by the serpent, and was not as much to blame as Adam was because he ate the fruit without being deceived. I believe the Bible assigns different rolls to women than it does to men, but it also points out that women's rolls are just as important as men, and when a man is not available to do a man's roll, a woman might have to step in to do it. Look at the women of the Bible, and you will find leadership rolls, such as by Deborah, Jael, Esther, Lydia, Dorcas, Lois, Eunice, and others who took leadership rolls or showed initiative to accomplish things. Please don't give up on God. He loves you as much as he loves anyone, and he has a lot of good in store for you if you let him. I hope your early life experiences will not keep you from reaching out and accepting the gifts that God has for you today. :-)
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 30, 2009, 09:56:51 pm
No I will never give up on God I know he is there and always will be. I was just pointing out that one can be taught one thing and still learn and make something of themselves. I also don't want women in these hard times to forget they are needed as much as men.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: iloilo on July 30, 2009, 10:01:40 pm
Just to clarify:
I don't think God or Jesus has anything at all against women, but still, the guys who wrote the Bible sure put in a lot of stuff which was easily interpreted by priests and ministers as blaming the fall on women, and showing women as objects for the use of men.

Again, this has nothing to do with God or Jesus, both of whom have been given a bad rap by religion and the Bible, as far as I am concerned.
ff
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on July 31, 2009, 02:02:41 pm
cordobablue - Thank you for the original post (((HUGS)))
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: spatter on July 31, 2009, 03:14:59 pm
Quote
when I was a little girl my dad said that girls where not equal to boys that girls needed boy to keep them from making the same mistakes as Eve did. He also told me to think twice before I did anything then think again, that way I would have a better chance of doing the right thing.

I can't imagine.  My father kept repeating "You don't need a man to make it."  The best thing a girl can have is a father who respects and encourages her.

Spatter
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Bear on July 31, 2009, 04:24:13 pm
When my daughter first started to drive our Jeep, the first thing
I taught her was how to change the tire without having to use
lot of upper body strength. I told her flat out, that I won't always
be there to solve her problems, so she might as well learn how to
take care of herself. (She already figured out that relying on the
kindness of strangers was not a wise strategy.) I also showed her
how to change the oil and check most of the fluids on the Jeep.

She's not a motor head, but she can do these things for herself
if she needs to.

I also answered all of her questions to the best of my ability
(limited by her interest in the answer) :) . I wasn't trying to
make her into a son, but to help build the best prepared young
adult I could.

The funny thing is that she has since discovered that she has
an understanding of a lot of things her friends have no clue
about. It's sad that more parents don't talk to their kids around
the dinner table.

Bear
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on July 31, 2009, 04:49:15 pm
Well if it had not been for my late ex husband me and my 2 daughters would be up a creek with out a pedal. My oldest daughters husband know nothing about cars but how to put gas in and drive. My youngest daughter has joined the NG thinking she would be of some use there.Her husband said it was to dangerous for him to join and that he would take care of their little boy. I don't like that my little girl is in the military but that was her chose. At least her husband didn't get his way, he wanted her to go full Army.
I am sorry that you can't imagine a dad saying that girls weren't equal to boys but he did.
At least I can now stand on my own two feet without feeling that I can't take care of anything that is thrown against me. God is always there to hold my hand and with God all things are possible.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: gaurdduck on July 31, 2009, 10:03:04 pm
Now someone needs to make a thread titled: "What single guys should know about girls".
Preferably written by the girls, and made VERY simple, in layman's terms.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Klapton Isgod on July 31, 2009, 10:11:30 pm
I'd make a thread on what women need to know about men, but Dave Chappelle has it covered perfectly...  The list is only four things long.  (jump to 2:10 )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA&feature=related

Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: gaurdduck on July 31, 2009, 10:23:46 pm
Not at all, his list of 4 things, only got 1 important thing: be a good cook. I think he said "make a sandwich", but I'm looking for a wife, and while I intend to procreate, That is not the sole purpose of a relationship. Love is by far the most important aspect of a relationship betwixt a man and a woman. Next is food... :laugh:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Lazarus Long on August 01, 2009, 12:43:17 am
This is an interesting thread, and has stirred up various things that have been simmering for a while under the surface in this corner of my mind. Read on and tell me if my cooking's any good...

I don't believe that when taken as a whole, the Bible puts women on a lower footing than men. Can it be twisted to put women down? Certainly. It can also be twisted and taken out of context any number of other ways.

We read from the Bible most days at our house, and I would consider my teaching and example to be a miserable failure if my daughter gets the impression that the female sex has any less worth or potential than the male. Unlike some Christians I know, I'm not into pulling verses out of their context as part of the whole Bible. I try to find the common threads that run through the whole Bible, and see the overriding message. What I gather from the book as a whole isn't about condemnation, damnation, oppression, hatred, or misogyny.*

For the record, I include my daughter, as much as she can stand it, in everything from auto repairs, to shooting, to gulch security planning. I think a gulching mindset is conducive to equality and mutual respect between the sexes, because without the fragile division of labor inherent in cities, men and women are forced to rely on each other more to accomplish everything necessary for survival, let alone prosperity.

While I don't deny that women have been unfairly and viciously put down by various "Christian" individuals and institutions throughout history, it is interesting to look around the world today and see which areas afford women the most freedom compared to men, both legally and culturally. By this I mean places where women are afforded equality before the law, and are actually free to assert it without eliciting threats to life and liberty. I'm thinking of the USA, Canada, Northern Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Israel. As opposed to Africa, the Muslim world, East Asia, or Latin America. With the exception of Israel, all of the former group have generally Protestant underpinnings. Is this just a coincidence? (Or, to be fair, could the unusually liberated state of women in these countries actually be due to pre-Christian religions?)

I admit that I'm painting with a broad brush here, and have glossed over Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, South Africa, and the matriarchal aspects of many African and east Asian cultures, as well as the way Catholicism has skewed the demographics.

I think Adam actually comes out worse than Eve in the Garden of Eden story. While Eve made a conscious choice to sin, Adam just followed her example without question, and then tried to dodge responsibility for his own actions later... by blaming it on Eve. So in a way, you could say he was both pussywhipped and a coward.

If the Gospels are to be believed, Jesus himself treated women - even "loose" women - as human beings and equals in a way that was shocking to his orthodox Jewish counterparts.

I just don't see the Bible as the fount of misogyny that some of you apparently do.

To be fair here, I should mention my wife, who is one of the sanest, funniest, and least hung-up individuals of either sex that I've had the privilege of knowing. She was not raised a Christian, but nominally Buddhist. Read into that what you will. She's not a bra-burner, but she seems freer in her head than I am, in terms of not caring what other people think, and being able to just ignore things that would stress and preoccupy me. (She converted to Christianity as an adult a few years before I met her. She says that a loving God was revolutionary to her, and something that her Buddhist education had neither hinted at nor really prepared her for.)

Note:  The life and teachings of Jesus Christ stand head and shoulders above any other spiritual tradition I have encountered, but also I see much of value in the Tao te Ching, as well as the teachings of Buddha. However, I know about as many hypocritical Buddhists as I do hypocritical Christians, which is to say, a lot. I've seen Taoist temples in the East, but the Tao seems better embodied in anarchists I know than in religious people who burn incense before idols.

__________________________________________________________

*There are portions of the New Testament which seem to me to serve us better as history, to be learned from, rather than an exact model to be followed - I'm thinking specifically of the book of Acts and parts of the epistles. If I treat the Bible as a huge list of rules to be followed for fear of hellfire, it seems to contradict itself and generally confuse me. If I treat it as a contextual whole and look for the overriding themes, I see a book about love and redemption. It's a terrible shame to lose sight of the forest for the trees when you're trying to untangle the meaning of life.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Lazarus Long on August 01, 2009, 12:53:02 am
In response to the original post in this thread, Cordobablue, I think your assertion is so general as to be meaningless. It is true of many women I know, and equally untrue of others. Some men have many of these qualities, and others have less. Frankly, I think some of them might even apply to gay baby whales. Some people are good, some people are bad, and most are in between. And good luck sorting them out, anyway.

Generalizations and stereotypes are useful tools for dealing with large data sets. But they're also tricky tools to wield. If you aren't careful, someone may lose a finger.

However, viewed as a list of good qualities to aspire to, your post could certainly inspire a person who is going through a rough patch or is otherwise in need of encouragement. Many here have taken it that way, so more power to you. At least, all of my fingers are still attached.  ^_^
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 01, 2009, 01:48:49 am
I have removed the first post in this thread do to the fact of the pain it has now caused me. I will not feel like I have done something wrong for trying to help others that may not feel good about themselves when they are trying very hard to be the best they can be. Sorry I ever posted this in the first place.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Lazarus Long on August 01, 2009, 08:35:58 am
Wow, cordobablue.

Your first post started a thoughtful, rigorous discussion about a number of associated issues, which to me is a good thing.

My response to your post was not a personal attack, but just meant to point out that it was overly general. I don't know how many I speak for here when I say this, but I personally would rather that my friends question or shoot down my faulty ideas rather than just pat me on the back. I consider it a favor and a complement when they take the time to engage me in discussion and try to keep me honest.

You might keep in mind that many differing viewpoints are represented here, and it's the nature of this forum for assertions of fact to be questioned. If you post your plans for a chicken coop, you will probably get all kinds of useful suggestions, some along the lines of, "If you build it THAT way, the foxes will be helping themselves." If you post an inspirational piece, it may get critiqued in a similar way. It's not a personal attack, per se.

I for one am glad you are here, and hope you will stick around. I apologize that my response came across as overly harsh, although I still stand by its point.

Bless you,

LL
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Klapton Isgod on August 01, 2009, 08:40:13 am
Clearly it was meant to be uplifting and encouraging, and that your feelings were sincere.  We appreciate your desire to be positive and inspirational in a community that spends most of it's time ranting about things we don't like.

THANK YOU.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: gaurdduck on August 01, 2009, 08:58:49 am
Clearly it was meant to be uplifting and encouraging, and that your feelings were sincere.  We appreciate your desire to be positive and inspirational in a community that spends most of it's time ranting about things we don't like.

THANK YOU.


I concur.
I also thank you.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 01, 2009, 11:03:34 am
I will not apologize for my beliefs. I believe that no one has the right to hurt anyones feelings when one does, they not only step on that persons right but they give up some of their rights. Everyone has a right to feel the way they do so for self preservation I took the objection away. I will not make anyone mad on propose and I felt that was what was happening. This world has enough fighting and anger to create enough energy to power everything for a life time even if it all stopped right no if we had saved it in some way. I am not good with words so it is hard for me to even try and post anywhere. I am now sure that I will think more then 3 times before I open my mouth.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Claire on August 01, 2009, 01:17:44 pm
I will not apologize for my beliefs. I believe that no one has the right to hurt anyones feelings when one does, they not only step on that persons right but they give up some of their rights. Everyone has a right to feel the way they do so for self preservation I took the objection away. I will not make anyone mad on propose and I felt that was what was happening. This world has enough fighting and anger to create enough energy to power everything for a life time even if it all stopped right no if we had saved it in some way. I am not good with words so it is hard for me to even try and post anywhere. I am now sure that I will think more then 3 times before I open my mouth.

Wow. I didn't see anybody getting angry or fighting. I just saw normal back-and-forth in (as Lazarus Long noted) a stimulating discussion. I'm sorry you took your original post down.

I also sure didn't see anybody asking you to apologize for your beliefs. You certainly have a right to your own beliefs -- as do those who disagree.

Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: coloradohermit on August 01, 2009, 02:40:22 pm
Cordobablue, I too am sorry that you took down your original post. It has provoked some really good discussion and probably some very worthwhile self examination. I was very lucky to have parents who didn't always adhere to the stereotypic gender roles. Daddy included me in his activities.  Much "man stuff" was learning experience for him so I also learned how to learn to do things. Another plus was that he was smallish for a man so we frequently learned how to think outside the box rather than just muscling into something.  It would almost never occur to me that I couldnt do something. 
    This may not apply to anyone but me, but where I've run into troubles over the years with self worth comes from nowhere and no one other than my own inner self.  My parents were so loving and so encouraging that they should have raised a perfect wonderkind. But when they said "You can do better" I heard "you're not good enough". It took me many years to see how I was the one who had turned it all around.  Part of it was a level of laziness.  I didn't want to excell and have high expectations heaped on me.  Still don't particularly.  But I have come to see several things that contribute hugely to my well being. One is that I don't have to meet anyone's expectations but my own. F%@k them if they can't take a joke. Another is that I am the only one who is ultimately in control of my feelings. You can't hurt my feelings. I can,and oftentimes do, allow someone to hurt my feelings, but that's on me and not them.  And finally, if someone tells me something I don't want to hear and it makes me angry or upset, the first thing I must do is examine it for any nugget of truth.  Why have I reacted strongly?  My normal reaction to a whole bunch of things is to be defensive. That's pretty much who I am, but I now know that and I can take a step back and not react overtly to every little coment thrown my way.
   I don't think anything has been said in this thread that was intended to be hurtful or critical of anyone. No one has been mean spirited or dismissive.  We all come from our own frame of reference which we insert, consciously or not, into our thinking. Freedom involves seeing and escaping those personal chains that hold us down.  Your thread and initial post were an invitation to look at and loosen some of our chains.  Stand and be proud or tell them to  :thebirdman: if they can't take a joke.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on August 02, 2009, 02:13:35 pm
If I may be so bold... I do believe that CORDOBABLE's original post was meant as a tool of encouragement for the women who post here, and was not intended to create a maelstrom of opinions as to its merit. Her intention wasn't to elicit comments about its goodness, accuracy or worthiness. And even though the discussion has been lively, introspective and even entertaining, please bear in mind that all she meant to do was post something she found encouraging and inspirational -- then merely wanting to share that sentiment.

With all due respect I totally disagree with the comparison of wanting "friends to question or shoot down [my] faulty ideas" to be asserted here. In my opinion, that's apples and oranges. I too, would take offense at that remark because it's implied that she has faulty ideas -- when all she did was post something that was meant to encourage, buoy and hearten the spirit; not post something that was necessarily all encompassing of her own personal ideas and beliefs.

If you're a little taken aback that she's upset then you're not seeing the whole picture. This isn't about having a mature, natural, passionate discussion; some of the posts seemed to question whether or not there was any value in the original post. Yes, it goes without saying that we're all entitled to have our opinions, but perhaps a wise thing would have been to withhold some of those opinions. Sometimes it's hard not to misconstrue some posts as being critical -- especially given that the original post was about uplifting the spirit in a place (this online board) where the news is often dreary...
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 02, 2009, 06:53:22 pm
Just in case anyone wants to see the there one I found, here it is. This one bust be where the one I posted first came from. I know not all women are like this but we should all try.

By the time the Lord made woman, He was into his sixth day of working overtime.
An angel appeared and said, 'Why are you spending so much time on this one?'
And the Lord answered, 'Have you seen my spec sheet on her? She has to be completely washable, but not plastic, have over 200 movable parts, all replaceable and able to run on diet coke and leftovers, have a lap that can hold four children at one time, have a kiss that can cure anything from a scraped knee to a broken heart -and she will do everything with only two hands.'

The angel was astounded at the requirements. 'Only two hands!? No way! And that's just on the standard model? That's too much work for one day. Wait until tomorrow to finish.'

'But I won't, ' the Lord protested. 'I am so close to finishing this creation that is so close to my own heart. She already heals herself when she is sick AND can work 18 hour days.'

The angel moved closer and touched the woman. 'But you have made her so soft, Lord.'

'She is soft,' the Lord agreed, 'but I have also made her tough. You have no idea what she can endure or accomplish.'

'Will she be able to think?', asked the angel.

The Lord replied, 'Not only will she be able to think, she will be able to reason and negotiate.'

The angel then noticed something, and reaching out, touched the woman's cheek. 'Oops, it looks like you have a leak in this model. I told you that you were trying to put too much into this one.'

'That's not a leak,'
the Lord corrected,
'that's a tear!'
'What's the tear for?' the angel asked.

The Lord said, 'The tear is her way of expressing her joy, her sorrow, her pain, her  disappointment, her love, her loneliness, her grief and her pride.'

The angel was impressed. 'You are a genius, Lord. You thought of everything! Woman is truly amazing.'

And she is!
Women have strengths that amaze men. They bear hardships and they carry burdens, but they hold happiness, love and joy. They smile when they want to scream. They sing when they want to cry. They cry when they are happy and laugh when they are nervous. They fight for what they believe in. They stand up to injustice . They don't take 'no' for an answer when they believe there is a better solution. They go without so their family can have. They go to the doctor with a frightened friend. They love unconditionally. They cry when their children excel and cheer when their friends get awards . T hey are happy when they hear about a birth or a wedding. Their hearts break when a friend dies. They grieve at the loss of a family member, yet they are strong when they think there is no strength left. They know that a hug and a kiss can heal a broken heart. Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors. They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you to show how much they care about you. The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning They bring joy, hope and love. They have compassion and ideals. They give moral support to their family and friends. Women have vital things to say and everything to give.

HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE TINY FLAW IN WOMEN,

IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: da gooch on August 02, 2009, 10:03:44 pm
If I may be so bold... I do believe that CORDOBABLE's original post was meant as a tool of encouragement for the women who post here, and was not intended to to create a maelstrom of opinions as to its merit. Her original intention wasn't about eliciting comments about its goodness, accuracy or worthiness. And even though the discussion has been lively, introspective and even entertaining, please bear in mind that all she meant to do was post something she found encouraging and inspirational -- then merely wanting to share that sentiment.

With all due respect I totally disagree with the comparison of wanting "friends to question or shoot down [my] faulty ideas" to be asserted here. In my opinion, that's apples and oranges. I too, would take offense at that remark because it's implied that she has faulty ideas -- when all she did was post something meant to encourage, buoy and hearten the spirit, not post something that was necessarily all encompassing of her own personal ideas and beliefs.

If you're a little taken aback that she's upset then you're not seeing the whole picture. This isn't about having a mature, natural, passionate discussion; some of the posts seemed to question whether or not there was any value in the original post. Yes, it goes without saying that we're all entitled to have our opinions, but perhaps a wise thing would have been to withhold some of those opinions. Sometimes it's hard not to misconstrue some posts as being critical -- especially given that the original post was about uplifting the spirit in a place (this online board) where the news is often dreary...

Advice noted, accepted and followed.

I for one am glad cordobablue decided to join us here at TMM.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Lazarus Long on August 03, 2009, 12:26:55 am
I, too, am happy to have Cordobablue here, and as I said before, I'm sorry that she found the thread that resulted here offensive.

I see that she intended her original post to be something inspirational and encouraging. But may I take the liberty of sharing my understanding of the psychology that may have led to this thread going in the direction that it did?

Many who practice preparedness and/or hold to a Golden-Rule-style anarchist or minarchist worldview feel different from the sheeple around them. We feel like a different species. We feel like we're awake in a world full of sleepwalkers, or we feel old-fashioned in a world that is barreling towards futuristic dystopia, or we feel like a handful of hedgehogs in a field dominated by sheep and wolves and their conflicts. Or whatever. In any case, we feel different from most of the people we deal with on a daily basis. We enjoy coming here to TMM and other enclaves of freedom online because we can be ourselves and talk shop with like-minded people. So far, so good.

Since we live on a planet full of, and mostly run by, sheeple and wolves, those of us who are neither frequently get cookie cuttered, shoe-horned, or simply forced into molds and systems that just plain old don't apply to us. Weren't built for us, weren't built by us, weren't designed and aren't run by anyone with an inkling of sympathy or understanding for the kind of individuals we are. In fact, a lot of these sheeple systems seem to have been designed by sheeple, to spite those of us who aren't wooly and don't say, "baaaaaa." 

"They aren't wooly, and they never say, "baaaaaa," so they're nasty and they deserve to be shoved into this Procrustean bed we've made for them." Sad but true.

We daily feel the uncomfortable effects of other people trying to pigeonhole us and force us into their molds. Sometimes this happens in their minds, and it's just annoying. Sometimes it physically happens, in the form of forced vaccinations or abortions, or drug busts, or whatever.

As a result of this felt discomfort, we come to dislike sweeping statements, since they may well be untrue of us and those we love. And if the sweeping statement clearly contradicts our own experience, then the reaction comes from even deeper in the gut. In other words, some of us are quite touchy about generalizations.

Knee-jerk reactions aren't always wise or nice. But they happen for a reason.

So how's that for a whole bunch of relatively sweeping statements?  ^_^  If they aren't true of you yourself, please feel free to beat me with an ugly stick.

Now, I regret that my earlier statements offended cordobablue. In the future, I may ask myself a little harder if a poster is looking for in intellectual response or just an encouraging word in return. I may just move on and go post geeky stuff in the Open Source Tech Gulch.

I'm 100% certain that cordobablue had no ill intent, even if her post may have been perceived as overly general and not quite true according to some of our experiences. I'm sorry that she was upset by the ensuing discussion. But one person's falling-out is someone else's stimulating discussion.

I'd rather we grew to understand and love each other better, than that we quit talking.

This is a unique community, and it would pay us to understand its history, and the reasons why we are different from the average Joe at the water cooler. We would benefit ourselves even more if we can stick together instead of falling apart over relatively trivial arguments.

[Edit for typos.]
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 03, 2009, 01:18:45 am
Lazarus Long,
I did not stop talking for any other reason then to figure out a way to:
1. Make myself understand that you most likely are the type of peerson that by saying what you feel by the first thought in your mind and forgetting to think that maybe you might hurt someones feels. Many people are that way, some because of the way they had to be to survive others because they never had to and then there are more reasons that I can not think of right now.
2. I wanted to let everyone know that I care about everyone.
3. That females that get put in the same box as those that don't care need not feel bad about themselves for a few bad apples don't spoil all.
4. that there are some man that have been burned so badly that they can't or won't let another female hurt them again so we have to try to understand them and help them if we can for we are the mothers of the future. If we don't show Love and Compation to those that need it we will not have a future.

I must also let you know that just because I care a great deal for people does not mean that I am dumb or blind. I can and will hurt anyone if I must to protect myself, friends, loved ones and the future generations to come for being made slaves in any way I can. I can be like a wounded lioness trying to protect her cubs for any enemy. Few have tried to see what I am like when they decide to hurt someone I live and the few that have do regret it, even my children say jokingly that heaven don't want me had hell is afraid I'll take over. I laugh when they say this. but it is fun to hear for I know that is the way they say we love you mom and believe you will as long as you live take care of us as long as it is in your power even if we can take care of ourselves. I try to be the most caring woman I can and I have and do take care of those that are mine when they let me, or if they can not take care of themself do to something beyond there control when I can.
Having said all that I hope that you understand that anything you say will not make me stop fighting for yours as well as anyone else on this sights FREEDOM.

I hope that I said this in a way that you understand that I hole no real hard feeling. I also hope that I said this in a way that makes since to you as I am not ever good with words without being able to show emotion.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: da gooch on August 03, 2009, 11:41:02 am
I will not apologize for my beliefs. I believe that no one has the right to hurt anyones feelings when one does, they not only step on that persons right but they give up some of their rights. Everyone has a right to feel the way they do so for self preservation I took the objection away. I will not make anyone mad on propose and I felt that was what was happening. This world has enough fighting and anger to create enough energy to power everything for a life time even if it all stopped right no if we had saved it in some way. I am not good with words so it is hard for me to even try and post anywhere. I am now sure that I will think more then 3 times before I open my mouth.

Wow. I didn't see anybody getting angry or fighting. I just saw normal back-and-forth in (as Lazarus Long noted) a stimulating discussion. I'm sorry you took your original post down.

I also sure didn't see anybody asking you to apologize for your beliefs. You certainly have a right to your own beliefs -- as do those who disagree.


Ditto the above.

Kudos LL,  A very good explanation it seems to ME.

I have the strangest feeling that at some point in the future we will all laugh about this whole misunderstanding ....
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: gaurdduck on August 03, 2009, 01:08:13 pm
I will not apologize for my beliefs. I believe that no one has the right to hurt anyones feelings when one does, they not only step on that persons right but they give up some of their rights. Everyone has a right to feel the way they do so for self preservation I took the objection away. I will not make anyone mad on propose and I felt that was what was happening. This world has enough fighting and anger to create enough energy to power everything for a life time even if it all stopped right no if we had saved it in some way. I am not good with words so it is hard for me to even try and post anywhere. I am now sure that I will think more then 3 times before I open my mouth.

Wow. I didn't see anybody getting angry or fighting. I just saw normal back-and-forth in (as Lazarus Long noted) a stimulating discussion. I'm sorry you took your original post down.

I also sure didn't see anybody asking you to apologize for your beliefs. You certainly have a right to your own beliefs -- as do those who disagree.


Ditto the above.

Kudos LL,  A very good explanation it seems to ME.

I have the strangest feeling that at some point in the future we will all laugh about this whole misunderstanding ....

Only if Ms Blue squirts beer out her nose.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on August 04, 2009, 05:01:35 pm
Many who practice preparedness and/or hold to a Golden-Rule-style anarchist or minarchist worldview feel different from the sheeple around them... Since we live on a planet full of, and mostly run by, sheeple and wolves, those of us who are neither frequently get cookie cuttered, shoe-horned, or simply forced into molds and systems that just plain old don't apply to us. Weren't built for us, weren't built by us, weren't designed and aren't run by anyone with an inkling of sympathy or understanding for the kind of individuals we are. In fact, a lot of these sheeple systems seem to have been designed by sheeple, to spite those of us who aren't wooly and don't say, "baaaaaa." We daily feel the uncomfortable effects of other people trying to pigeonhole us and force us into their molds. Sometimes this happens in their minds, and it's just annoying. Sometimes it physically happens, in the form of forced vaccinations or abortions, or drug busts, or whatever... As a result of this felt discomfort, we come to dislike sweeping statements, since they may well be untrue of us and those we love. And if the sweeping statement clearly contradicts our own experience, then the reaction comes from even deeper in the gut. In other words, some of us are quite touchy about generalizations...

Knee-jerk reactions aren't always wise or nice. But they happen for a reason.

I'd rather we grew to understand and love each other better, than that we quit talking.

I've noticed a kind of elitism in the world of those who practice preparedness/survivalism -- not from everyone of course. The "sheeple" make sweeping generalizations about preppers but, preppers certainly make sweeping generalizations about "sheeple," too. Generalizations aren't always wise or nice. But they happen for a reason...
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: dogsledder54 on August 04, 2009, 09:19:46 pm
Just in case anyone wants to see the there one I found, here it is. This one bust be where the one I posted first came from. I know not all women are like this but we should all try.
  By the time the Lord made woman, He was into his sixth day of working overtime.
An angel appeared and said, 'Why are you spending so much time on this one?'
And the Lord answered, 'Have you seen my spec sheet on her? She has to be completely washable, but not plastic, have over 200 movable parts, all replaceable and able to run on diet coke and leftovers, have a lap that can hold four children at one time, have a kiss that can cure anything from a scraped knee to a broken heart -and she will do everything with only two hands.'
  The angel was astounded at the requirements. 'Only two hands!? No way! And that's just on the standard model? That's too much work for one day. Wait until tomorrow to finish.'
  'But I won't, ' the Lord protested. 'I am so close to finishing this creation that is so close to my own heart. She already heals herself when she is sick AND can work 18 hour days.'
The angel moved closer and touched the woman. 'But you have made her so soft, Lord.'
'She is soft,' the Lord agreed, 'but I have also made her tough. You have no idea what she can endure or accomplish.'
'Will she be able to think?', asked the angel.
The Lord replied, 'Not only will she be able to think, she will be able to reason and negotiate.'
  The angel then noticed something, and reaching out, touched the woman's cheek. 'Oops, it looks like you have a leak in this model. I told you that you were trying to put too much into this one.'
'That's not a leak,'
the Lord corrected,
'that's a tear!'
'What's the tear for?' the angel asked.
The Lord said, 'The tear is her way of expressing her joy, her sorrow, her pain, her  disappointment, her love, her loneliness, her grief and her pride.'
The angel was impressed. 'You are a genius, Lord. You thought of everything! Woman is truly amazing.'
  And she is!
Women have strengths that amaze men. They bear hardships and they carry burdens, but they hold happiness, love and joy. They smile when they want to scream. They sing when they want to cry. They cry when they are happy and laugh when they are nervous. They fight for what they believe in. They stand up to injustice . They don't take 'no' for an answer when they believe there is a better solution. They go without so their family can have. They go to the doctor with a frightened friend. They love unconditionally. They cry when their children excel and cheer when their friends get awards . T hey are happy when they hear about a birth or a wedding. Their hearts break when a friend dies. They grieve at the loss of a family member, yet they are strong when they think there is no strength left. They know that a hug and a kiss can heal a broken heart. Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors. They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you to show how much they care about you. The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning They bring joy, hope and love. They have compassion and ideals. They give moral support to their family and friends. Women have vital things to say and everything to give.
  HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE TINY FLAW IN WOMEN,
IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH.

That is very good. I understand it, now that you posted the complete story.  ;-]
Just one more thing-  Although you are correct that people SHOULDN'T intentionally hurt others' feelings, we DO NOT have the right to not be offended. Otherwise, no one could say ANYTHING, because no matter WHAT you say, no matter how profound or how trivial, SOMEONE will, rightly or wrongly, be offended.
:mellow:   
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on August 04, 2009, 09:32:59 pm
... we DO NOT have the right to not be offended...

I concur...
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 04, 2009, 09:40:46 pm
That is very good. I understand it, now that you posted the complete story.  ;-]
Just one more thing-  Although you are correct that people SHOULDN'T intentionally hurt others' feelings, we DO NOT have the right to not be offended. Otherwise, no one could say ANYTHING, because no matter WHAT you say, no matter how profound or how trivial, SOMEONE will, rightly or wrongly, be offended. [/b] :mellow:  Â

Very true that is why I took it away. I did not want anyone to be offended and I couldn't find a way to make the whole thing clear. I had received mail twice. The first time is what is shown last and the second was the first one I posted.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: yorick on August 05, 2009, 08:12:18 pm
What women need to know (a joke - please don't be offended!)

ahem...


Women will never achieve equality with men until they can strut down the street, bald head glistening in the sunlight, beer belly hanging over the belt and protruding ever so slightly from underneath a sweat stained t-shirt, confidently thinking to themself;

<wait for it>




 "Damn, I'm sexy..."

:D :D
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 05, 2009, 08:37:38 pm
What women need to know (a joke - please don't be offended!)

ahem...

Women will never achieve equality with men until they can strut down the street, bald head glistening in the sunlight, beer belly hanging over the belt and protruding ever so slightly from underneath a sweat stained t-shirt, confidently thinking to themself;

<wait for it>
 "Damn, I'm sexy..."
:D :D

None taken.

"Joke back"

Women will never achieve equality because we can't sink that low.

LOL
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Klapton Isgod on August 05, 2009, 08:50:55 pm
There's also the pee standing up thing too.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 05, 2009, 11:28:49 pm
Ok firehose aside. Standing and doing that just makes guys showoffs and not worth talking about.  :laugh: :laugh:
If you want to talk about things that women can't do here is one thing men can't do "Have babies grow inside them and if ever they could they would not be able to stand the pain!"
Now top that.   :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Klapton Isgod on August 06, 2009, 12:05:03 am
No thanks.  Writing my name in the snow with pee is MUCH more fun.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on August 06, 2009, 01:42:05 pm
Quote
... strut down the street, bald head glistening in the sunlight, beer belly hanging over the belt and protruding ever so slightly from underneath a sweat stained t-shirt, confidently thinking to themself; "Damn, I'm sexy..."

You don't have to be a man to do that: I do that every Saturday afternoon! (Sans the bald head, but sporting a fuzzy upper-lip!) ;)

There's also the pee standing up thing too.

Highly over-rated. The advantage you have is being able to go anywhere anytime. :)
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: SoundTheBell on August 06, 2009, 06:30:02 pm
It's not hard at all to pee standing up!
Writing my name... okay, you got me there.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: gaurdduck on August 06, 2009, 07:07:56 pm
That's nuthin'!
Up north, you can pee outside in the winter and have it land as a solid mass.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: jimoutside on August 07, 2009, 09:51:19 pm
Not sure how this whole thread turned into discussion of peeing outside, but at least I'm not offended. Usually it's something I don't talk about, lol!
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 07, 2009, 09:56:15 pm
Acting like Adam,  :angel1: "yorick  started it not me!"   :laugh: :laugh: Playing the blame game can be fun even if it is true. :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: jimoutside on August 07, 2009, 10:14:59 pm
Yeah, I mean, I was just taught, sometimes you have to pee outside, but we generally don't talk about it, we just do it, we do it where no one can see, we forget about it after, and don't bring it up. Kind of like, you know, everybody is wearing underwear (well, most of us) but we don't need to talk about it, lol!  :dontknow:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 08, 2009, 01:51:43 pm
Yes I know and I don't normally talk about it either but I was in a strange mood so I made the subject that got started to continue. If I hadn't replied to it the subject would have been dropped.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on August 08, 2009, 02:34:08 pm
Kind of like, you know, everybody is wearing underwear (well, most of us) but we don't need to talk about it, lol!  :dontknow:

But, you're thinking about it, right? ;)
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: jimoutside on August 08, 2009, 08:15:33 pm
Kind of like, you know, everybody is wearing underwear (well, most of us) but we don't need to talk about it, lol!  :dontknow:

But, you're thinking about it, right? ;)

lol, I wasn't thinking about it until people brought up the whole peeing thing and then I had to search around for something of a comparable similarity to make my point. Ya know, ya just can't win for losing around here!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: dogsledder54 on August 08, 2009, 08:19:54 pm
Just don't eat the yellow snow.  ^_^
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: jimoutside on August 08, 2009, 08:47:53 pm
Ok, I won't/
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: da gooch on August 08, 2009, 08:52:29 pm

Save that "snow dye" for mutti.  She and ND could use it for their goat fencing.  :ph34r:    :rolleyes:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on August 08, 2009, 10:35:51 pm
You didn't loose you just got to see a different prospective.
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Moonbeam on August 08, 2009, 11:37:16 pm
lol, I wasn't thinking about it until people brought up the whole peeing thing and then I had to search around for something of a comparable similarity to make my point. Ya know, ya just can't win for losing around here!  :rolleyes:

I gotchaya!!

I've been around long enough to know that most conversations turn to "potty talk" eventually. Unless it's the people I'm around... Hhhmmm...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Roy J. Tellason on September 16, 2009, 10:33:54 am
I liked that bit of text in the initial post enough that I just swiped it,  and put it into a web page I have online,  that's a work in progress (more on that in a later post)...

Oh,  and I recall a post somewhere back in the dim days of fidonet about a certain lady a guy was talking about admiringly that _could_ write her name in the snow,  for whatever that's worth.  :-)


Title: Re: What Women need to know
Post by: Mad Wet Hen on September 16, 2009, 12:02:39 pm
Even losers win for they learn something even if what they learned was something dumb.  :laugh: