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[DiabloLoco]

Could have married a Nephilim... or maybe a fox in human form.

Hey.....My wife's a fox! 

[securitysix]

Could have married a Nephilim... or maybe a fox in human form.

We're really bringing kitsune into a discussion of the Bible? 

[Moonbeam]

DL - In regards to why did God make the Jews His chosen people, I found this bible verse summed it up succinctly for me: "For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach and without the law. But in their distress they turned to the LORD, the God of Israel, and sought Him, and He was found by them" (2 Chronicles 15:3-4 NIV). They were surrounded by nations who worshipped other gods, who were involved in evil practices. They were the only ones who sought God among all the nations. He heard their cries for help, answered them, and made them His. Hope that helps, if even a little

[Moonbeam]

KHYERON - I was a young girl when my parents became born-again Christians. I might not have known the word transformation, but I saw the results. My parents were different, changed -- transformed, and I was intrigued. They may have introduced me to God, but I was curious enough to want to know more about Him. No one forced God on me, no one made me have a relationship with Christ, no one in my family harassed me, or intimidated me into worship. I sought God and He revealed Himself to me. No one had to condemn me or point out that I was a sinner, those were just things I instinctively knew. When I was ready, I freely acknowledged and accepted what Jesus did for me. My path to Him was never impeded or manipulated. I was encouraged to pray and ask questions, but I was never dragged along or threatened to be compliant.

Like most folks, my journey in life has produced pain and regret. I have done naughty things with naughty people, and I have memories I want to forget. My relationship with God has been sidetracked, set back, and saddled with human issues. But, I have never ever experienced Him withhold His love or His presence because of something I did or said, or because of something I didn't do or say.

I have not been inclined to follow the 600+ Hebrew laws. And I don't know that I ever will. From what I have gathered through prayer and reading that is not He wants from me either. I do think it's important for me to follow the Ten Commandments though. What He has been teaching me over the years can be summed up in one word: love. Not a love for this world [kosmikos], not a love that men have to do what they want on their terms, not a love that is contradictory to Who He is. But, a genuine love for the welfare of others, and a love for them to want to encourage them to have an intimate relationship with Him.

There are certainly some wonderful traditions that I have personalized for my spiritual needs. I have been blessed through the teachings and sharing from others. And I benefit from fellowship with other believers. But, I really meant it when I said I follow no man or no man-made religion blindly, loyally. I do not follow in the way of Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims or Ba'al. I am not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Mormon or Jehovah Witness.

I want you to understand that I do not mind you sharing your views on religion - the good, bad or ugly aspects of it. What I took offense at is you stating that I could not know God. My relationship with Him is real and personal the same way that my relationship with my husband is real and personal. It is not up to you to tell me otherwise.

Now, as for the "girl" reference, though I do not presume to speak on behalf of all women, a good rule of thumb is to not call a married woman you are not friends with a "girl." It will more likely than not be considered an insult. Same as addressing a female you are not friends with "woman." Yes, women can call each girl as it's usually done so on friendly terms. [It's a "girl" thing *LOL*] Unless you are of Southern persuasion [which I happen to know (there's that word again!) you are not] which would be considered customary or unless you are my husband I find it inappropriate to be called "darlin'" or "darling" by a man I do not know (darn it, can't get away from that word!). If you wish to convey a friendly, dare I say even an affectionate tone, may I suggest addressing me as "Moon?"

[khyeron]

Gotcha.  Either way, I did grow up here in the states, somewhat in the south and can and do move between dialects and terms interchangeably.  You didn't "know" but that's not something that bothers me.  I'm a bit more traveled than many, and have lived and worked among yankees and some pretty nutty southern baptist types too.  There is nothing that scares me quite like those southerners, but I picked and chose from their customs what I liked and kept going.  I still hold that you're misusing the term know, but if your belief is knowledge to you, then that's that and there's no point for me to argue it with you, neither of us will gain anything by arguing it, except ulcers and hard feelings, and I've no desire for either.

[Moonbeam]

I still hold that you're misusing the term know, but if your belief is knowledge to you, then that's that and there's no point for me to argue it with you, neither of us will gain anything by arguing it, except ulcers and hard feelings, and I've no desire for either.

Yet, you still felt compelled to get that one last, little dig in, eh?

[khyeron]

Yet, you still felt compelled to get that one last, little dig in, eh?

You're starting to get to know me.  *gasp*  You've probably noticed I'm being somewhat light hearted about it.

But still... *hides under a rock*  (Need a smiley for that.)

[MamaLiberty]

Moonbeam... didn't you have brothers who teased you? I grew up without a father or brothers, so have always had a hard time understanding any sort of "male type" sarcasm or teasing. And, since I have a very literal mind, I don't "get" the joke usually, even if I recognize something as intended that way.

But I've gotten quite fond of this khyeron bloke, and he really doesn't mean any harm or insult. Trust me. It would be more fun if he was in the same room and you could slug him, of course. Or salt his coffee... But here we just have to live with it the best we can. 

[mutti]

There ya' go.

[Moonbeam]

KHYERON - It didn't bother me, hence the smiley

ML - That's it! That's exactly what KHYERON reminds me of -- a brother!* Yes, I have one and I do this frequently in regards to him:    OR     OR     OR   . And I've done all of that at the same time as well 

MUTTI - Good one! I think GOOCH would probably like it, too.

*No offense intended, Khyeron!

[securitysix]

Moonbeam... didn't you have brothers who teased you? I grew up without a father or brothers, so have always had a hard time understanding any sort of "male type" sarcasm or teasing. And, since I have a very literal mind, I don't "get" the joke usually, even if I recognize something as intended that way.

But I've gotten quite fond of this khyeron bloke, and he really doesn't mean any harm or insult. Trust me. It would be more fun if he was in the same room and you could slug him, of course. Or salt his coffee... But here we just have to live with it the best we can. 

Emphasis mine, but ML, it sounds to me like you understand it just fine. 

[khyeron]

Moonbeam.  You didn't have to edit to add the "no offense" stuff.  I only get offended by ad hominems, of the direct kind, or grudge bearing (for reasons other than arson, rape, murder, etc... stuff for which one should bear a grudge.)

Sec6.  C'mon man.  Being slugged by a girl (*ahem* lady) is all good fun, but salting of good coffee?  That's criminal!

 

[MamaLiberty]

Emphasis mine, but ML, it sounds to me like you understand it just fine. 

I'm learning... 

[Yuki]

Moonbeam.  You didn't have to edit to add the "no offense" stuff.  I only get offended by ad hominems, of the direct kind, or grudge bearing (for reasons other than arson, rape, murder, etc... stuff for which one should bear a grudge.)

Sec6.  C'mon man.  Being slugged by a girl (*ahem* lady) is all good fun, but salting of good coffee?  That's criminal!

 

Great! I'd love to slug you sometime. (got lots of slugs around here...) And yeah, salting coffee or ruining good food as a prank results in bruised pranksters in my house.

[DiabloLoco]

This is not quite in line with the original premise for this thread, but i thought that it was related enough to be included.

I found this article @ lewrockwell.com .

Religion and Libertarianism

by Walter Block

http://lewrockwell.com/block/block206.html

But, can theists be libertarians? Of course they can. All they need do is respect the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP). What are religious people guilty of, precisely, that makes you think they can't be libertarians? At worst, in the view of most atheists, mumble some silly words (prayers). They sing some silly songs. They read some silly fairy tale books (the Bible.) How any of this violates the NAP is totally beyond me. I don't care if they are devil worshippers; stick pins in dolls, etc. That still would not violate the NAP. You say "when God does far, far worse." Come on, give me a break. As you and I believe, there is no such entity, so how can He be guilty of this, let alone of anything?

My strategic view on all this is that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend." So who is my main enemy, qua libertarian? The government in general, of course, and in particular, Stalin, one of the most brutal of all statists. And what pray tell was Stalin’s outlook on religion? It was particularly vicious. He attempted to undermine religion (along with the family by getting children to tattle on their parents for great rewards). So, I am, somewhat paradoxically, an atheist who is friendly toward religion. Since virtually every human in virtually every time has been religious, and since libertarianism is a political philosophy that says nothing about God, for libertarians to be offensive about religion is just plain stupid. It is far worse than linking our philosophy with practically any other adventitious calling. Are we next going to come out against motherhood and apple pie?

Long live religion, say I, and on libertarian grounds! Yes, these people believe in unproven things, but we are in a battle for the hearts and minds of the people. Ranged on one side is the government; on the other, religion. The choice between them ought not be too difficult for those of us intent upon bringing about freedom. The one is diametrically opposed to liberty. The other is per se entirely orthogonal to our movement. By "per se" I am including only a belief in God. The desire to impose this belief on others is of course antagonistic to libertarianism; it is itself a version of statism.

I am not a Libertarian, but I thought that the main outlook of the article was related to this discussion.

What do you think Moonbeam? Thoughts?