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[OLD TIRED RN]

Forget nursing school, unless you would enjoy working for the government and shuffling endless paperwork. I retired early because I couldn't stand one more day of kissing government regulation butts via Medicare and all its evil children.

EMT or fireman/rescue sounds like a good idea for a young man who wants to learn skills that will be valuable to his community.

Some books you might consider also:
http://www.javelinpress.com/order.html
Hologram of Liberty - Boston T. Party
Boston's Gun Bible

I just want to add my loud AMEN to this post about nursing school.  Government and insurance companies are working night and day to come up with more and More and MORE paperwork type needless time wasting thing to keep the nurse away from the patient and make a "pencil pusher" of them.   I don't have the knowledge or experience that Mama Liberty has in nursing, but I did do it as an RN for 20 years and was a paramedic on a very busy service for 7 of those same 20 years.  I've seen paper work piles growing while demands on the nurse's time grow from the facility, unreasonable families, lazy doctors ( NOT ALL ARE LAZY, but TOO MANY ARE), etc. etc. etc. I mean a nurse now days just about can't win for loosing.  I've seen so many good capable nurses get out of it and do something else as they just couldn't stand it anymore.

The two books by Boston, along with everything else he has written, are very valuable in these times and the even more dangerous time to come.

[vonu]

And worth about as much as a mail order doctorate in chemistry, I'm sure. You don't get that kind of education without many years of hands on experience as well as serious book learning. I've been at it informally for about 30 years and I've just scratched the surface. Please don't trivialize this field!

I'd never trivialize something as important as real healing versus pharmaceutical symptom elimination, which is what most mainstream practitioners practice, aided and abetted by pharmaceutical salesmen with zero medical training.

[Hollywoodgold]

Slideman:

You wrote:

"The politicians want to continue to leech. They make up smooth BS to keep the great middle slaving for them.
The court advisors (gov't school professors) want to continue leeching. They make up nice numbers and theories supporting the ruling elite - and their own full tummies.
The welfare/social security recipients wanna continue leeching. They chant "Amen" to the above.
The great middle doesn't wanna be cast out unprotected, so they do as told, believe all, deny truth, etc.
The palace guard is happy to kick, shoot, stomp and otherwise abuse as long as they are granted license and given an occasionaly shiny medal."

The extent to which the Gov. (Fed, State, County, Local)  has come to dominate our nation is daunting. So your above quoted concerns seem likely, in large, to occur. I do differ on the rapidity, or rate of TSHTF's manifestation and the nature of the participants if it does occur. I believe that TSHTF will develop much slower that many on this Forum seem inclined to believe. It is not that I disagree with the fundamental forces causing this entropic  dissolution of civil liberties. Rather I believe it is the complexity of the US and global economy/social/economic structure that will cause a rather long slide. If I am correct, the speed, that is to say a slower one, would likely alter the construct of our social and political environment resulting from "the crash". A growing awareness of Gov. greed and criminality works against their end game. I am aware that Ron Paul has expressed grave concern about the rate, aka damn fast, in which this change is currently occurring. I take that warning with heed and do not permit my preparations to be lulled into complacency by my own thoughts on the dynamics of timing.

The following is an expression of which you might be familiar. It goes, "Markets can remain irrational much longer than most investors can remain solvent". I tend to believe that the forces of power, aka Wizards of the Universe, who control finance, monetary policy and the choices of where the next war(s) will be fought (Google Samuel Prescott Bush), will prolong their grip on the wasting of our patrimony and the burying of our Republic until the last digestable drop of our sweat and tears has been drunk. While to us, the "dis-integration" of our nation/culture appears dire and in imminent collapse, the current bump (last 8-10 years of the Federal Gov. & teh FRB) induced by the gorging of hogs at the trough has been caused by "one of their kind" getting a little carried away with a more than accommodative Congress.

If I am correct, and some time remains (3-8 years at least) before the dissolution of our sovereign nation status is formally offered up to the International Socialists, then time may be on our side. Complacency will not breed an informed People, pain will. The zealousness with which the boiling water has been raised may exceed the tolerance of many of the People. I see this every day, in small ways but growing in frequency. The Wizards have faulted on the side of excess and too many people are now aware of their nature and intent.

I have chosen a small community as my gulch. I believe that we are in large part, a Nation of small communities out of which long range change (reversion) can be accomplished. Last Christmas at a family get together, two distant cousins of mine, one a retired electrician from Chicago and the other, a retired AF E-8, talked openly about the seriousness of our current conditions and the value of gold. Two years ago a local Republican Party Precinct Chairman in my community was unaware that the FRB is a private Cartel sticking it to the American People. He is now stuck, he can't go back, he knows the truth, or at least part of the truth and he is an activist.

I share JJ's view regarding the underlying support of Constitutional law by many in our military. I do not mean to say all, or for that matter most. But enough to make it difficult, and perhaps impossible, for the Wizards to call on them to betray their oaths and core beliefs. The Demographic that supported Ron Paul is very close to a military demographic, meaning young and idealistic and constitutionally patriotic.

I was not in the military but over the last few years had the opportunity to work on projects for military personnel  (Army, Navy & Air Force).  I was encouraged by their strength and sense of loyalty to our Republic. Unlike a foreign war where the bad guy seems "clear", the broad support of an assault on the rights of US citizens seems unlikely to me. The Nazis were clever in their plan's execution in that they chipped away at societies weak spots, European Jews and others. "They" were different and so persecution (really economic exploitation) could take place with the general society choosing to ignore "them" being taken away. It is a very different matter to face your citizens as an armed enforcer than it is to face an "enemy".

Today, the Nation's industrial/civil/ community infrastructure is so vast and dispersed, were the Wizards to come after segments of the population, they would need all hands just to observe and protect the infrastructure from attacks by rebellious citizenry and IMO, would not be able to do so. No, I believe they must keep us as frogs, slowly boiling, till their end game can take place. But the genie is out, the Gordian knot will be untied and the money that has formed the basis of their power and abuse will shrivel and die.

Along the way, I do think there will be pockets of difficulty along the way that will be harbingers. Specific areas will be "hit" like Watts and Detroit in the 60's providing a look see into the MO's that will be preferred. Look for Gov. "relief", aka inflation ala more Katrinas, as the salve with promises of change, responsible Gov. and more salve. When the salve no longer eases the irritant, look for real change. If I am correct, this time will work against them as those of us out of the pot will find it easier to assist those that are still in.

I admit, I am an optimist, actually a Planner, who has always looked to the future so I may be wrong about my timing view.

Anyway, on a lighter note, can anyone offer an opinion of whether an A-3 or an A-4 is a more versatile  in the event I am overly optimistic?

Thanks for asking a valuable question.

BR/DS
INTJ

[Junker]

fyi: INTJ thread

Good intj-ing, Hollywoodgold.

Ref use of military: Follow the German history...brownshirts, etc. Local oligarchy & their cops are
of interest in that line, and the many wannabe's who feel disregarded.

[Bear]

Anyway, on a lighter note, can anyone offer an opinion of whether an A-3 or an A-4 is a more versatile  in the event I am overly optimistic?

If can take a quote out of context to give it new meaning...

"I've got one word for you: plastics"

Bear

[Hollywoodgold]

Anyway, on a lighter note, can anyone offer an opinion of whether an A-3 or an A-4 is a more versatile  in the event I am overly optimistic?

If can take a quote out of context to give it new meaning...

"I've got one word for you: plastics"

Bear

Bear:

For or against?

DS

[Hollywoodgold]

fyi: INTJ thread

Good intj-ing, Hollywoodgold.

Ref use of military: Follow the German history...brownshirts, etc. Local oligarchy & their cops are
of interest in that line, and the many wannabe's who feel disregarded.

Junker:

If I follow your thought(s) correctly, the notion is that we are expressing a similar pattern as post Wilsonian Germany. Correct?

If I have understood the post, there is much I could say in support of that position. However, there  are many important differences such as we have not just emerged from a "Holy Roman Empire, aka German Colonial Empire, nor have we been under the crushing oppression of the Treaty of Versailles nor have we yet experienced a "Weimar" hyper-inflationary state (yet) to "soften up the belly" of the People for a JBT Democracy.

We might agree that there are forces in motion which might take us "there" but I remain optimistic that unlike post WWI Germany, we have a foundation of law widely accepted and embraced by the People. They/we just do not yet recognize the thin thread from which our cherished rights now dangle. I believe our military will not follow the JBT and the more minds and hands reach out with reason, the more likely that I will be correct. We must avoid the Balkanization of our society as we experienced in the 60's.

But wakened to the threat, and I believe awakened our nation will become, the Shumer will hit the fan and hopefully the fan is located down wind from Washington D.C.

If I am wrong in my assessment, there is always Plan B.

BR/DS

[Junker]

fyi: INTJ thread

Good intj-ing, Hollywoodgold.

Ref use of military: Follow the German history...brownshirts, etc. Local oligarchy & their cops are
of interest in that line, and the many wannabe's who feel disregarded.

Hollywoodgold:

> If I follow your thought(s) correctly, the notion is that we are expressing a similar pattern as post Wilsonian Germany. Correct?

Sorry, sorry. My comment was too shorthand. Post Wilsonian Germany is the correct era, but I was not trying to compare the whole or overall run of events. As you indicate:

> If I have understood the post, there is much I could say in support of that position. However, there  are many important differences such as we have not just emerged from a "Holy Roman Empire, aka German Colonial Empire, nor have we been under the crushing oppression of the Treaty of Versailles nor have we yet experienced a "Weimar" hyper-inflationary state (yet) to "soften up the belly" of the People for a JBT Democracy.

My thoughts (which too much remained in my head rather than typed in) were centered on the growth and take-over of the Nat-Soc party-- the use of the brownshirts and party personnel for violence (their JBT formation) and pressure to shift the local control in their direction, rather than the govt-controlled assets of police & military. And surely as the power shifted, more local police were brought in both as nat-soc members and as under the orders of nat-soc elected local bureaucrats. Then more so even later in the process of nat-soc party control. My point is that this process was earlier not dependent on "official" troops-- mil or police. They used and recruited the "wannabe's", those who felt injured by the power/money game or left out of its rewards ("equal pay for equal work", etc. of mostly socialist origin).

This is partly reflective of ff's "captured city" effort as the power plays had to do with local oligarchies and shifting their power lines into the party's. Another example/view can be seen in the Tammany Hall group in New York. Note "reflective" is a wishy-washy word, mostly to indicate seeing or making parallels in the situations in that shifting of power lines.

And returning to:

> ...nor have we been under the crushing oppression of the Treaty of Versailles nor have we yet experienced a "Weimar" hyper-inflationary state (yet) to "soften up the belly" ....

Specifically, quite true. But we have been in a welfare state since FDR. That has created a bunch of expectations in this culture about which there is much whining (and gnashing of teeth:-) and when those expectations are dashed creates the emotional set parallel to that of Gm's era. And that emotional set provides for demogoguery and the asking for a "savior".


> We might agree that there are forces in motion which might take us "there" but I remain optimistic that unlike post WWI Germany, we have a foundation of law widely accepted and embraced by the People. They/we just do not yet recognize the thin thread from which our cherished rights now dangle. I believe our military will not follow the JBT and the more minds and hands reach out with reason, the more likely that I will be correct. We must avoid the Balkanization of our society as we experienced in the 60's.

Which I think says you and I see the parallels similarly, but they are playing out in a different time and culture and where and how they will lead or play out is difficult to predict/specify. To that I say, yes, yes. I don't know or specifically predict. I stand with your expression of the timeline. The inertia present in the US society and dollar seems to assure a relatively long decline. Weimar hyper-inflation, I think, present an example of a multi-year process.

> But wakened to the threat, and I believe awakened our nation will become, the Shumer will hit the fan and hopefully the fan is located down wind from Washington D.C.
> If I am wrong in my assessment, there is always Plan B.

Yes, predicting in this new set of relations is a "maybe, well, if..., etc." kind of proposition. I certainly do not have but a guess.



edit: fixed quote error 090321

[MamaLiberty]

I must have been sleeping or something. What is this "plan B?"

[Hollywoodgold]

I must have been sleeping or something. What is this "plan B?"

ML:

My reference was to my preference for optimism. If my preferential solutions fail which are predicated on an enduring goodness in The people, Plan B is to raise the bridge, if there's one to lift in that event.

BR/DS

[Hollywoodgold]

fyi: INTJ thread

Good intj-ing, Hollywoodgold.

Ref use of military: Follow the German history...brownshirts, etc. Local oligarchy & their cops are
of interest in that line, and the many wannabe's who feel disregarded.

Hollywoodgold:

> If I follow your thought(s) correctly, the notion is that we are expressing a similar pattern as post Wilsonian Germany. Correct?

Sorry, sorry. My comment was too shorthand. Post Wilsonian Germany is the correct era, but I was not trying compare the whole or overall run of events. As you indicate:

> If I have understood the post, there is much I could say in support of that position. However, there  are many important differences such as we have not just emerged from a "Holy Roman Empire, aka German Colonial Empire, nor have we been under the crushing oppression of the Treaty of Versailles nor have we yet experienced a "Weimar" hyper-inflationary state (yet) to "soften up the belly" of the People for a JBT Democracy.

My thoughts (which too much remained in my head rather than typed in) were centered on the growth and take-over of the Nat-Soc party-- the use of the brownshirts and party personnel for violence (their JBT formation) and pressure to shift the local control in their direction, rather than the govt-controlled assets of police & military. And surely as the power shifted, more local police were brought in both as nat-soc members and as under the orders of nat-soc elected local bureaucrats. Then more so even later in the process of nat-soc party control. My point is that this process was earlier not dependent on "official" troops-- mil or police. They used and recruited the "wannabe's", those who felt injured by the power/money game or left out of its rewards ("equal pay for equal work", etc. of mostly socialist origin).

This is partly reflective of ff's "captured city" effort as the power plays had to do with local oligarchies and shifting their power lines into the party's. Another example/view can be seen in the Tammany Hall group in New York. Note "reflective" is a wishy-washy word, mostly to indicate seeing or making parallels in the situations in that shifting of power lines.

And returning to:

> ...nor have we been under the crushing oppression of the Treaty of Versailles nor have we yet experienced a "Weimar" hyper-inflationary state (yet) to "soften up the belly" ....

Specifically, quite true. But we have been in a welfare state since FDR. That has created a bunch of expectations in this culture about which there is much whining (and gnashing of teeth:-) and when those expectations are dashed creates the emotional set parallel to that of Gm's era. And that emotional set provides for demogoguery and the asking for a "savior".


> We might agree that there are forces in motion which might take us "there" but I remain optimistic that unlike post WWI Germany, we have a foundation of law widely accepted and embraced by the People. They/we just do not yet recognize the thin thread from which our cherished rights now dangle. I believe our military will not follow the JBT and the more minds and hands reach out with reason, the more likely that I will be correct. We must avoid the Balkanization of our society as we experienced in the 60's.

Which I think says you and I see the parallels similarly, but they are playing out in a different time and culture and where and how they will lead or play out is difficult to predict/specify. To that I say, yes, yes. I don't know or specifically predict. I stand with your expression of the timeline. The inertia present in the US society and dollar seems to assure a relatively long decline. Weimar hyper-inflation, I think, present an example of a multi-year process.

> But wakened to the threat, and I believe awakened our nation will become, the Shumer will hit the fan and hopefully the fan is located down wind from Washington D.C.
> If I am wrong in my assessment, there is always Plan B.

Yes, predicting in this new set of relations is a "maybe, well, if..., etc." kind of proposition. I certainly do not have but a guess.

Junker:

Thanks for the thoughtful rejoinder.

Accurate predictions are made infrequently and when accurate, are often made soon before the event occurs. Read Meredith Whitney's comments on the financials. She is attributed the gift of "savantic" predictions for what Mogambo or Willie have been saying for years. And cheaper...

I appreciate you recanting the role of the BShirts. A thought came to mind that the NGO's are functioning as international BShirts through the various meta-governmental entities.

The death spiral will likely take years and the Wizards will not give up easily. They will fight for their Kingdoms. It appears the next chapter will have even more heroic circuses and larger loaves of bread.

I hope I live long enough.

BR/DS

[Rick N]

Some books you might consider also:
http://www.javelinpress.com/order.html
Hologram of Liberty - Boston T. Party
Boston's Gun Bible

I second this enthusiastically--no library is complete without Boston's Gun Bible (read it twice), and you might also look into his book on Surviving Y2K since we're discussing SHTF scenarios. I'd also recommend the ultimate SHTF novel, which is "Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

[OLD TIRED RN]

Rick, you are very astute to realize the great worth of Boston's books.  All of his books are very worthwhile, as are the great writings/books of our very own Claire Wolfe here. 

I know that you describe yourself as a newbie here as we all were at some point.  May I encourage you our new friend to read Read READ from Claire AND Boston.  Therein lies a very fine education in these matters. Oh, on Boston's books, make sure you get the revised updated version of Boston's Gun Bible AND "You and the Police."  They are true updates, not just a redoing to sell.

Hope we'll see you here for a good long while, and that you'll enjoy your time here.  Private mail me if I may be helpful.

                             Respectfully,  RN

[Rarick]

Some books you might consider also:
http://www.javelinpress.com/order.html
Hologram of Liberty - Boston T. Party
Boston's Gun Bible

I second this enthusiastically--no library is complete without Boston's Gun Bible (read it twice), and you might also look into his book on Surviving Y2K since we're discussing SHTF scenarios. I'd also recommend the ultimate SHTF novel, which is "Lucifer's Hammer" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle.

yes- read Boston Tea Party's stuff


Dies The Fire By S.M. Stirling [B Dalton and Barnes have the book now] is a much more current cover for SHTF than Niven/ Pournelle.  I like Pournelle's CoDominium series.  Specifically the last 3 books about the planet Sparta and their government set up.  They deal with an interstellar SHTF.

[jamie]

fyi: INTJ thread


Junker:

 

We might agree that there are forces in motion which might take us "there" but I remain optimistic that unlike post WWI Germany, we have a foundation of law widely accepted and embraced by the People. They/we just do not yet recognize the thin thread from which our cherished rights now dangle. I believe our military will not follow the JBT and the more minds and hands reach out with reason, the more likely that I will be correct. We must avoid the Balkanization of our society as we experienced in the 60's.



BR/DS

In the past I read quite a lot of books on the Weimar Republic and the events leading up and including the Nazi takeover.   A constant refrain in all of these books was this,  how could this happen in Germany ?  They had a long established respect for law and a foundation of law and a grand civilization.  Culture, science, art, education, all of it.  It was all swept away. And the psychopaths took over.   

 I don't think Americans have any "greater foundation of law widely accepted and embraced by the people" than Germany did.

Given the right conditions, I think those cattle cars and camps can and will happen.