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[Misfit]

I thought I read it somewhere here on TCF a while back. I couldn't find anything when I did a search. I think it was tacked onto some bill that was getting pushed through. Let me google a bit and see if I find anything. I just figured I'd ask to see if it was common knowledge around TCF by now or not.

[NoBullSavage]

Hey all,

FYI: baby is now 5 years on earth, awesome kid! No TV, no branded toys, the other day she pointed to a character in a book and said "daddy look, its Skippy John Joe!". It was Bugs Bunny. I was so happy. Artistic as all heck, paints, dances, draws daily. IS in public school (local, small town style), with medical insurance. No IRS tax claim and my insurance has lately been trying to get me to pxut her SSN down in order to continue coverage. Had to file an exemption. Not too big of a deal. Thats been the only catch thus far. Moral of the story; dont number your kid, you dont have to for them to enjoy a great life (at least not the first five years!)

NoBull

[khyeron]

Glad to hear it, I might end up making some little men and women at some point sooner than later, and I'm glad to hear that I won't be alone in not selling them into slavery for a "tax break" or some other such B.S.

[ScottyK]

Arguh, I wish I knew about this eight  years ago when my wife and I started having kids. After the delivery at the hospital they gave us a stack of forms to fill out, one of which was the SSN card. I remember complaining that they are already getting tagged by the system, but thought we had no choice.

But on a good note, since we live here in Oklahoma and homeschool, the school system doesn't realize our kids exist. Oklahoma has the best laws of homeschooling in the country! No requirement to register with the state/school district. nothing.

[Bill St. Clair]

Arguh, I wish I knew about this eight  years ago when my wife and I started having kids. After the delivery at the hospital they gave us a stack of forms to fill out, one of which was the SSN card. I remember complaining that they are already getting tagged by the system, but thought we had no choice.

You always have a choice. You are absolutely free to do whatever you want. But actions have consequences to balance. Each of us balances them differently.

[mutti]

You always have a choice. You are absolutely free to do whatever you want. But actions have consequences to balance. Each of us balances them differently.

Well said with way fewer words than I would use! Thanks.

[khyeron]

Nah, sorry ladies and gents, he's right, when you're coerced by police, you don't have a choice.  You gave up the choice when you entered the hospital and had the kid there.  When police are threatening you, you only have one other choice, and its really not a choice unless you've chummed up the battle field ahead of time... and that other choice is to fight until they're all gone or surrendered.  How many parents who've just had a kid are ready to do that?  How many people in general have even the balls to try that?  Precisely.

[hangman]

When our daughter had Rain, she was very adamant, no Socialist Slave Number. Within the hour, they gave her one. She was pissed. Even more so when she found how much BS is involved in rescinding one.

[Bear]

Nah, sorry ladies and gents, he's right, when you're coerced by police, you don't have a choice.  You gave up the choice when you entered the hospital and had the kid there.  When police are threatening you, you only have one other choice, and its really not a choice unless you've chummed up the battle field ahead of time... and that other choice is to fight until they're all gone or surrendered.  How many parents who've just had a kid are ready to do that?  How many people in general have even the balls to try that?  Precisely.

It isn't just, but that's pretty much right on the money for how it works. People have been
tackled and hand cuffed for removing their own baby off of hospital grounds without first
getting a SSN.

Bear

[mouse]

Am I being really naive in asking this?

Is it possible to have a private birthing centre (or something like that) staffed by Libertarian nurses, or freedomista nurses, where you can go in total secrecy and confidentiality and have the baby without all the bureaucratic fuss?

I reckon there is a market for that.  Apparently in America (tell me if I'm wrong) having babies is expensive anyway, so you may as well "keep the money in the family" so the speak.

(Maybe there's a business idea for 2012 for someone who knows what they are doing)

[MamaLiberty]

Is it possible to have a private birthing centre (or something like that) staffed by Libertarian nurses, or freedomista nurses, where you can go in total secrecy and confidentiality and have the baby without all the bureaucratic fuss?
I reckon there is a market for that. 

There is certainly a market for it, but this would be completely illegal everywhere. In addition, the liability would be impossible to insure against, and a big part of the cost of OB/GYN care in America NOW is the liability. Not going to happen until we live in a free country.

[PJ]

Many Amish communities are starting birthing centers because of their private and traditional lifestyle, and they have a religious exemption from being given a SSN. 

The Amish and Social Security
http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amishss.htm

Just Saying No to Social Security
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/just-saying-no-to-social-security-39048

So if you have religious reasons against SS, you can get out of it.  I don't think I want to convert to the Amish faith however. 

[mouse]

Is it possible to have a private birthing centre (or something like that) staffed by Libertarian nurses, or freedomista nurses, where you can go in total secrecy and confidentiality and have the baby without all the bureaucratic fuss?
I reckon there is a market for that. 

There is certainly a market for it, but this would be completely illegal everywhere. In addition, the liability would be impossible to insure against, and a big part of the cost of OB/GYN care in America NOW is the liability. Not going to happen until we live in a free country.

Liability for what?  Things hardly ever go wrong with a birth.  If a disaster occurs with a birth in a government hospital there is usually no recourse anyway, so what is to say that a birth in one of these (as yet undeveloped) birthing centres is more likely to "go wrong" than a birth in a government hospital?  I remember reading of a recent case where a baby died as the result of an imcompetent midwife and the only outcome for the parents was that she wrote them a "letter of apology" - great, an apology for their child dying unnecessarily, but the midwife continued in her work.  You could always have a system whereby the parents signed something saying that they were aware of any "possible risks, complications, what ever, and agreed to abide by the rules of the birthing centre".

Of course there is always the Amish birthing centre.  I presume they would take someone who is not Amish, would they?

[MamaLiberty]

That would be nice, mouse, but it's not even close here. Remember that the US is over run with lawyers, and almost all of them are happy to start a lawsuit at the drop of a hat. There are many things that can go wrong in ANY medical situation, and childbirth is no exception. People can and do sue doctors for things that they could not possibly predict or prevent. And they collect often. That is the liability problem - and it doesn't matter much where the birth occurs in that case. Signed consent or wavier forms are just about worthless here. I've never heard of one being honored if the patient later decides to sue.

Where Have All the Doctors Gone   http://www.soroptimist.org/articles/article_obstetricians.html
Although the shortage of ob-gyns is a complex issue, many point to rising malpractice insurance rates as the culprit. In the United States, ob-gyns pay one of the highest liability insurance premiums of any medical specialty, second only to neurosurgeons, and are sued an average of three times during their careers.

Many of the lawsuits are over children with neurological damage, such as cerebral palsy. But a recent American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) <www.acog.org> study concluded that less than 10 percent of cases of neurological impairment were caused by events during labor, and even in most of those cases, the problems were not preventable.

 

[mouse]

ML I'm not quoting your post due to still have the old problem (just with this site funnily enough) of only being able to write a few lines and then the page "jumps" up and down all the time and it is hard to keep track.  It is the same when I quote something, it counts as "lines of text" (which of course it is), so the more room the better.

I might be going out on a limb here and could very well be wrong, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I have "got the wrong end of the stick".  I am getting the impression that Americans (some Americans anyway, obviously not all) have got far too "precious" when it comes to having babies.  You talk of "OB/GYNs" as if they are the first choice for anyone having a baby.  In my experience (although limited, I do realise) nurses and midwives deliver babies and hardly ever doctors.  When doctors are involved they are usually GPs, not specialists and Ob/Gyns are reserved for very complicated, emergency births.

When I was having my own children it was impressed on me that "woman have been having babies for thousands of years and something hardly ever goes wrong".  Homebirth was the "in thing" at the time and I remember one of my neighbours having a baby, she was alone in the house with her older child (a boy of nearly 6) and she went into labour, instead of panicking she sent the boy to the local petrol station to get the attendant who had trained as a EMT and did volunteer work on weekends and after work.  He delivered the baby and there were no problems.  Someone else I knew had her baby in their bathroom and her husband and daughter delivered it.

What do uninsured people in America who are having babies do?  They can't be into the liability "mentality".

I guess there are a lot of homebirths to prevent bureaucratic intervention.  Is this getting more and more popular?